Autistic Couple

[Tarmander]

This Is What Dating Is Like on the Autism Spectrum

I came across this a couple days ago browsing reddit. The video is an interview of two people who are a couple and have autism. It talks about dating and how they got together and all that.

Haidut and RP have talked about Autism as being characteristic of having high serotonin, and treating it with serotonin lowering methods.

What I found interesting in this video was mostly the woman's interview sections. She is quite adorable, but other then that, she has some very interesting characteristics that we could look at through a high serotonin lens. She smiles a lot, seems very happy, and has bright eyes; almost too bright. It is like there is a fragility to her smile that has an undercurrent of fear and anxiety. Kind of similar to someone who smiles to try and avoid being ridiculed or hurt. You can also see how the idea of prescribing drugs that would raise serotonin would seem to be a solution to depression. She definitely does not look depressed, but that depression is being displaced by a more acute form of anxiety.

Anyways, would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

 

[Such_Saturation]

What's their DNA looking like...

 

[Tarmander]

What's their DNA looking like...

Uhh helix-y?

 

[Makrosky]

What I found interesting in this video was mostly the woman's interview sections. She is quite adorable, but other then that, she has some very interesting characteristics that we could look at through a high serotonin lens. She smiles a lot, seems very happy, and has bright eyes; almost too bright. It is like there is a fragility to her smile that has an undercurrent of fear and anxiety. Kind of similar to someone who smiles to try and avoid being ridiculed or hurt. You can also see how the idea of prescribing drugs that would raise serotonin would seem to be a solution to depression. She definitely does not look depressed, but that depression is being displaced by a more acute form of anxiety.

Anyways, would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

I can see your train of thought though I don't agree with what you said, not at all. Human beings are much more than serotonin and there are factors like innate character, life experience, nervousness before a videocamera, mood of the day, mood of the month, and specially the fact that autism is not as simple as a serotonin excess; all that can affect how she's behaving in the video. And that you just know a 0,000001% of that person. Your POV is totally subjective and you're forcing a preconception to match into reality.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Such_Saturation]

They don't feel like making faces, they just learned it for you, that's why it looks weird.

 

[Tarmander]

I can see your train of thought though I don't agree with what you said, not at all. Human beings are much more than serotonin and there are factors like innate character, life experience, nervousness before a videocamera, mood of the day, mood of the month, and specially the fact that autism is not as simple as a serotonin excess that can affect how she's behaving in the video. And that you just know a 0,000001% of that person. Your POV is totally subjective and you're forcing a preconception to match into reality.

But that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I mean it is all my subjective opinion, but I would not say I am trying to force a preconception to match reality. I am taking info that could be true and seeing if reality matches up to it. And yeah, it is just a small part of who someone is, but it might be a part nonetheless. Anger is fairly easy to see, even if there are all kinds of degrees of anger like frustration, rage, etc. Same with sadness and other emotions. What does Serotonin looks like? That is what I am curious about. These emotions are not who they are, but it could be a part.

 

[Makrosky]

You can't know how "serotonin looks like" because character, behaviour, mood and everything observable from the outside depends very much on a myriad of factors interrelated to which serotonin is only a part of it.

So the woman of the video is autistic and has high serotonin and that's why she's anxious and smiles too much and stuff. Ok. Have you seen other autistic persons ? Lots of them don't even want to talk or have any social of physical contact.

If anything, I think you can know how "serotonin looks like" in yourself. But not in others.

 

[Tarmander]

You can't know how "serotonin looks like" because character, behaviour, mood and everything observable from the outside depends very much on a myriad of factors interrelated to which serotonin is only a part of it.

So the woman of the video is autistic and has high serotonin and that's why she's anxious and smiles too much and stuff. Ok. Have you seen other autistic persons ? Lots of them don't even want to talk or have any social of physical contact.

If anything, I think you can know how "serotonin looks like" in yourself. But not in others.

Hmm, that is interesting about the personal thing. If I posted a video with someone yelling at someone else, we would be able to say this person looks angry, you can tell because their brow is all bunched up, their jaw is flexing, maybe their eyes are squinty or something. Same if I posted a video of someone crying. Everyone has their own brand of sad or mad or any of those other differences that you mentioned. Why doesn't serotonin have some similarities across people? I would assume that if you could tell what it looked like in yourself you could see it in others.

I have not seen a ton of Autistic people, a few here and there. My main experience with this kind of thing comes from some family members who were on anti depressants for awhile. They started to get the shiny eyed, too bright look to them with some underlying anxiety.

 

[onioneyedox]

I think serotonin gives sort of resilience and unyielding ability cope (well, survive) stress (I'd say more primal type, say war/hunger/cold/imprisonment etc.). It makes you zombie like, so you don't generally care about things or life may seem meaningless (to the person, paradoxically it seems that you may care more for others) , but if you have a reason (survival, care for relatives or I guess humans can come up with more complex reasons), it makes you able to do things (maybe depending on situation you become aggressive or something). I don't mean it keeps you warm or satiated, but makes you able to go and do thing that you need to, to survive. It is a adaptive response to stress, not and should not be thought simply as evil hormone (or maybe necessary evil at least). It may also make your interest more basic/primal, like I feel I don't really need comedy when I'm good mood, music taste changes, learning new things becomes harder. But in current society you can't just go out and do simple things to survive, for the lack of freedom or maybe the things are too complex nowadays, plus added stress from environment/food supply, and people end to this vicious circle they cannot escape easily (learned helplessness, depression, anxiety etc.). Maybe extreme levels of serotonin are part of autism problem.

Just what I think/feel about serotonin, take it with grain of salt.

 

[scarlettsmum]

My daughter has high functioning autism and her eye contact is a little bit like you describe, shiny bright eyes, but most importantly she doesn't look into your eyes, but rather through you. I think there was some research that concluded that autistic people feel fear when making eye contact so they avoid it. My brother has Aspergers and is now an adult and he just refuses to make an eye contact, no shiny bright eyes, and is very socially awkward. I wonder if lowering serotonin is indeed the answer, but am not keen to experiment with drugs on my daughter. Sticking to food for now.

 

[StrongMom]

My daughter has high functioning autism and her eye contact is a little bit like you describe, shiny bright eyes, but most importantly she doesn't look into your eyes, but rather through you. I think there was some research that concluded that autistic people feel fear when making eye contact so they avoid it. My brother has Aspergers and is now an adult and he just refuses to make an eye contact, no shiny bright eyes, and is very socially awkward. I wonder if lowering serotonin is indeed the answer, but am not keen to experiment with drugs on my daughter. Sticking to food for now.

I have two autistic sons, one with mild the other with moderate symptoms. One thing I can clearly say is that there is fear, fear of a lot of things. What I am seeing is that yes there is a serotonin issue, but it is quite more complicated than that.

Scarlettsmum, how are you dealing with the diagnosis? The diet didn't provide much relief to us. Wht kind of foods are you talking about? Is it easy to make her eat what you offer?

 

[scarlettsmum]

I have two autistic sons, one with mild the other with moderate symptoms. One thing I can clearly say is that there is fear, fear of a lot of things. What I am seeing is that yes there is a serotonin issue, but it is quite more complicated than that.

Scarlettsmum, how are you dealing with the diagnosis? The diet didn't provide much relief to us. Wht kind of foods are you talking about? Is it easy to make her eat what you offer?

Yes, fear is the main issue, definitely. We were diagnosed with moderate autism and over a year she made a big progress and moved to high functioning autism. I don't know if it is due to her age, still a growing child or the diet. She hates milk and is funny even about ice-cream. But she loves fruit to such extent that we call her a fruit monkey. I let her eat what she wants pretty much these days. So I don't push bready things much, since she doesn't like it, but let her eat the jam on its own instead or sometimes she asks for rice cakes. I let her eat gummy bears, quality chocolates. Basically other parents would think that I am overdosing her on sugar, especially now since there is so much hysteria around sugar. I don't push it on her either, of course, but if she wants it I no longer deny it to her. I make her eat eggs by making egg omelette with jam or nutella and calling it a pancake or mix up couple of egg yolks with powdered sugar, she loves that. I just wish I could get her to drink milk. I tried putting fruit syrups in, sugar, etc. but she doesn't like it. However she likes whipped cream, so I give her that with fruit sometimes. I think what I'm not getting right is the combining of carb, fat and protein in one meal for her, but it doesn't seem to bother her. When I think back to my childhood I also used to totally overeat on carbs, especially on sugar and never consciously combined it with protein and was very healthy, so I am not sure if I should be even worried about it. She also eats normal dinner like meat and potatoes/pasta/homemade pizza, etc.

 

[tara]

I just wish I could get her to drink milk. I tried putting fruit syrups in, sugar, etc. but she doesn't like it. However she likes whipped cream, so I give her that with fruit sometimes. I think what I'm not getting right is the combining of carb, fat and protein in one meal for her, but it doesn't seem to bother her.

Tried cheesecake with farmers cheese? And maybe extra cream if it makes it more attractive?
If she's eating a regular meat and potatoes dinner, and lots of fruit, and extra sugar, she may not be doing too badly. If the chocolate has milk in it, that counts for something too.
I've got a fruit monkey in my house, too. :) I wish he'd eat more calcium, and haven't figure out how to tempt him regularly.

 

[StrongMom]

Yes, fear is the main issue, definitely. We were diagnosed with moderate autism and over a year she made a big progress and moved to high functioning autism. I don't know if it is due to her age, still a growing child or the diet. She hates milk and is funny even about ice-cream. But she loves fruit to such extent that we call her a fruit monkey. I let her eat what she wants pretty much these days. So I don't push bready things much, since she doesn't like it, but let her eat the jam on its own instead or sometimes she asks for rice cakes. I let her eat gummy bears, quality chocolates. Basically other parents would think that I am overdosing her on sugar, especially now since there is so much hysteria around sugar. I don't push it on her either, of course, but if she wants it I no longer deny it to her. I make her eat eggs by making egg omelette with jam or nutella and calling it a pancake or mix up couple of egg yolks with powdered sugar, she loves that. I just wish I could get her to drink milk. I tried putting fruit syrups in, sugar, etc. but she doesn't like it. However she likes whipped cream, so I give her that with fruit sometimes. I think what I'm not getting right is the combining of carb, fat and protein in one meal for her, but it doesn't seem to bother her. When I think back to my childhood I also used to totally overeat on carbs, especially on sugar and never consciously combined it with protein and was very healthy, so I am not sure if I should be even worried about it. She also eats normal dinner like meat and potatoes/pasta/homemade pizza, etc.

I would try to avoid nutella as it is full of PUFA. I know it is really hard; I have two kids with two different eating habits, if one likes something, the other doesn't. They are pushing my limits in creativity.

I make something like eggnog with egg yolks, milk, and honey. That is the way I can make my boys "drink " egg.

 

[scarlettsmum]

Tried cheesecake with farmers cheese? And maybe extra cream if it makes it more attractive?
If she's eating a regular meat and potatoes dinner, and lots of fruit, and extra sugar, she may not be doing too badly. If the chocolate has milk in it, that counts for something too.
I've got a fruit monkey in my house, too. :) I wish he'd eat more calcium, and haven't figure out how to tempt him regularly.

Tara, thanks for the tip. I will try farmers cheese cheesecake.

 

[scarlettsmum]

I would try to avoid nutella as it is full of PUFA. I know it is really hard; I have two kids with two different eating habits, if one likes something, the other doesn't. They are pushing my limits in creativity.

I make something like eggnog with egg yolks, milk, and honey. That is the way I can make my boys "drink " egg.

Yeah, I know about Nutella, but she loves it so much so I try not to stress too much about it. Also Nutella has barely any nuts in compared with some organic Nutella alternatives that claim 50% nuts and reduced sugar.

 

[Such_Saturation]

It has added vegetable oil... also wouldn't the soy lecithin be worse than the PUFA? It's an emulsifier and it's from GMO soy as well.

 

[tara]

Yeah, I know about Nutella, but she loves it so much so I try not to stress too much about it. Also Nutella has barely any nuts in compared with some organic Nutella alternatives that claim 50% nuts and reduced sugar.

One of mine likes it, too. It lives at teh back of the cupboard, and every now and then he remembers to ask for it, fortunately not very often. I've said I'm not buying another jar when it's empty. Same with the peanut butter.

I had a go at replacing it with chocolate sauce (sweetened condensed milk, cocoa, coconut oil), but it didn't fly.

 

[postman]

I think a lot of "asperger" cases are caused by poor socialization and high serotonin. Predatory authoritarian psychologists and teachers are way too quick to label someone, and consequently destroy their lives, normal development, and hopes of improvement. Of course they think they're helping people. Psychology is very dangerous.

 

[jaguar43]

I think a lot of "asperger" cases are caused by poor socialization and high serotonin. Predatory authoritarian psychologists and teachers are way too quick to label someone, and consequently destroy their lives, normal development, and hopes of improvement. Of course they think they're helping people. Psychology is very dangerous.

I had a acquaintance who had "aspergers". Both of his parents were extremely well educated and I think they provided an environment with a lot of stimulation academically and not enough social development. He was taking advance calculus classes in the 9th grade. Another issue was that he was so smart that other kids became envious and began competing with him for the best scores.

I never though much of it, He was actually pretty open minded. He was never really dogmatic or authoritarian.