Augmentin

charlie

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I decided to give the Augmentin a shot and see if it would knock out this raging sinus infection I had. After taking one pill a couple hours later I notice I am freezing, so I turned my AC down. It feels like this bone chilling cold is setting in, freaky!!! So I turn the AC as far down as it will go, I am still freezing!

Now at this point I realize this is not right. I start looking into the Clavulanic acid. And I see its made from arginine.

wikipedia said:
"Clavulanic acid is biosynthetically generated from the amino acid arginine and the sugar glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate."

And I remembered haidut mentioning arginine was some pretty bad stuff because its a precursor to NO.

haidut said:
Ray is not a big fan of certain amino acids like arginine due to its role as a nitric oxide (NO) precursor. I posted a study several weeks ago showing that supplemental arginine greatly boosted tumor growth while supplemental glycine halted it.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4553&p=54771

So my red flag went up and immediately stopped the Augmentin, temp rebounded. Not sure if being made from Arginine had anything to do with it, but that bone chilling cold was not right!
 

Ori93

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My mom would always tell doctors that the only thing I could be allergic to is Augmentin, since it gave me a rash as a baby.
 

qwazy

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Anyone has some updated information on the safety of Augmentin? It seems like a good option to eradicate hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria.
 

yerrag

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I used it last year, 2 weeks on daily 100mg doxy, then followed, by daily augmentin at 625mg for 2 weeks, then 7 weeks of Azithromycin at 3 x 500mg/week. Was supposed to clean my blood vessels of periodontal bacteria to try lower my blood pressure. Failed as my bp didn't go down. But it did sterilize my gut somehow and it felt good. I also used some biofilm disruptors together with them. I think that if you're to remove H2S producing bacteria, you'd have to break biofilms as the H2S bacteria are anaerobic and they are usually protected by biofilms. I used proteolytic enzymes, ceylon cinnamon, chitosan, erythritol, d-robose, lactoferrin as biofilm disruptors.
 
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I’ve used and am using amoxicillin. Not sure augmentin is any better. Or maybe it’s worse. Seems like a gimmick. Amoxicillin has fixed h pylori so aspirin doesn’t bother my stomach at all.
 

qwazy

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I used it last year, 2 weeks on daily 100mg doxy, then followed, by daily augmentin at 625mg for 2 weeks, then 7 weeks of Azithromycin at 3 x 500mg/week. Was supposed to clean my blood vessels of periodontal bacteria to try lower my blood pressure. Failed as my bp didn't go down. But it did sterilize my gut somehow and it felt good. I also used some biofilm disruptors together with them. I think that if you're to remove H2S producing bacteria, you'd have to break biofilms as the H2S bacteria are anaerobic and they are usually protected by biofilms. I used proteolytic enzymes, ceylon cinnamon, chitosan, erythritol, d-robose, lactoferrin as biofilm disruptors.
Thanks. I have done a couple of rounds of natural antimicrobials with biofilm disruptors. Always got better but not all the benefits stayed with me. So now I wonder if I should give the antibiotics a try or use chlorine dioxide. What do you think makes more sense?

@ecstatichamster I have read somewhere that augmentin is supposed to be quite powerful against H2S bacteria. Have not read that about pure amoxicillin but of course that does not say anything.
 

yerrag

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Thanks. I have done a couple of rounds of natural antimicrobials with biofilm disruptors. Always got better but not all the benefits stayed with me. So now I wonder if I should give the antibiotics a try or use chlorine dioxide. What do you think makes more sense?

@ecstatichamster I have read somewhere that augmentin is supposed to be quite powerful against H2S bacteria. Have not read that about pure amoxicillin but of course that does not say anything.
I haven't tried using biofilm disruptors together with natural antibiotics, but it may work. What natural antibiotics do you have in mind?

As for chlorine dioxide, it may be effective but in my case it seemed to add inflammation as it increased the production of HOCl- as a ROS used in phagocytosis and the spillover of ROS in surrounding tissues in my kidneys led to inflammation. But that is the side effect. It was, however, very effective in killing bacteria directly from the O2 in chlorine dioxide. But not everyone has my kidney condition.
 

qwazy

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I haven't tried using biofilm disruptors together with natural antibiotics, but it may work. What natural antibiotics do you have in mind?

As for chlorine dioxide, it may be effective but in my case it seemed to add inflammation as it increased the production of HOCl- as a ROS used in phagocytosis and the spillover of ROS in surrounding tissues in my kidneys led to inflammation. But that is the side effect. It was, however, very effective in killing bacteria directly from the O2 in chlorine dioxide. But not everyone has my kidney condition.
I tried most of the popular natural antimicrobials:
raw garlic, mastic gum, cloves, cinnamon, berberine, silver, grapeseed extract, monolaurin, black seed oil, coconut oil, ginger, tumeric, diatomaceous earth, a lot of essential oils, probiotics etc. As additional biofilm busters I used things like NAC, nattokinase, lactoferrine, interphase plus and such.

Now I am thinking of antibiotics like rifaximin, augmentin and bactrim as they seem to effective for H2S sibo (previous stool test showed besides other things elevated bilophilia and oscillibacter which could explain my current symptoms).
 

yerrag

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I tried most of the popular natural antimicrobials:
raw garlic, mastic gum, cloves, cinnamon, berberine, silver, grapeseed extract, monolaurin, black seed oil, coconut oil, ginger, tumeric, diatomaceous earth, a lot of essential oils, probiotics etc. As additional biofilm busters I used things like NAC, nattokinase, lactoferrine, interphase plus and such.

Now I am thinking of antibiotics like rifaximin, augmentin and bactrim as they seem to effective for H2S sibo (previous stool test showed besides other things elevated bilophilia and oscillibacter which could explain my current symptoms).
So it's SIBO. I have little experience with it, so it's more involved. It's still helpful to combine biofilm disruptors with antibiotics though. I even think that prepping with biofilm disruptors would help before beginning antibiotic treatment.

I think I can test if a biofilm disruptor is working when after taking it, I would experience diarrhea. That means the anaerobic bacteria is being released into the planktonic stew, either dead or alive, and if dead as LPS. Either way, it spoils the gut stew such that the gut walls won't permit the stew to be absorbed into the blood, and then loose stools or diarrhea happen.

The thing is, the disrupted biofilm that caused the diarrhea may be in the large intestine, and not in the small intestine.
 

qwazy

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Seems like I just have to play around. I guess my large intestine will also be affected but I first have to fix the small intestine as it is upstream. My only worry is that I can damage something with the chlorine dioxide or the antibiotics.
 

mostlylurking

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I tried most of the popular natural antimicrobials:
raw garlic, mastic gum, cloves, cinnamon, berberine, silver, grapeseed extract, monolaurin, black seed oil, coconut oil, ginger, tumeric, diatomaceous earth, a lot of essential oils, probiotics etc. As additional biofilm busters I used things like NAC, nattokinase, lactoferrine, interphase plus and such.

Now I am thinking of antibiotics like rifaximin, augmentin and bactrim as they seem to effective for H2S sibo (previous stool test showed besides other things elevated bilophilia and oscillibacter which could explain my current symptoms).
Ohhhh Noooooo!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!! You are going to wreck your health. This is the voice of experience here. Research any and ALL antibiotics before allowing them in your body. Learn whether or not the one in question blocks metabolism, especially by blocking thiamine function. Bactrim (sulfamethoxazole / trimethoprim) is known for blocking thiamine and biotin (see here: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter and here: Interaction of 2,4-Diaminopyrimidine–Containing Drugs Including Fedratinib and Trimethoprim with Thiamine Transporters). Search for "Bactrim and thiamine" or another antibiotic/pharmaceutical drug and thiamine. The trimethoprim in Bactrim is so efficient at destroying your mitochondrial health the lunatics in the medical industry are using it for chemotherapy.

I took Bactrim last August. Then I tried Augmentin, for a recurring UTI. The Augmentin worked. The Bactrim nearly finished me off. I was down for the count all of October and November. I researched Bactrim online and learned about the thiamine blocking issue re. Bactrim. I've been mega dosing thiamine, magnesium, and biotin for 2 months (and eating lots of cooked mushrooms and drinking gallons or orange juice for the potassium) and am feeling more normal finally.

It's one thing to take some penicillin or some old fashioned tetracycline. It is a whole new and very dangerous game to try out the all new and totally questionable "improved" things the pharmaceutical industry has created in the last 10-25 years.

I had small intestine issues in the 90's (klebsiella infection, leaky gut). My doctor put me on golden seal (=berberine) and Enzymatic Therapy's licorice for 3 months, and increased my thyroid medication (natural desiccated thyroid). Hypothyroidism causes gut problems. It worked! The medical board pulled the doctor's license a few years later. Now I have no doctor. The world is insane.

You may find this information helpful: Ray Peat, PhD on the Benefits of the Raw Carrot – Functional Performance Systems (FPS) I have to soak and rinse the shredded carrots well to remove some of the carotene before eating them. Carotene makes me feel pretty awful.
 
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qwazy

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@mostlylurking Thanks, that is super helpful. I managed to get rid of helicobacter, klebsiella, citerobacter, streptococcus, pseudomonas etc. with herbs too. However, I still have high valeric acid in my stool and my digestion, while improved, is not great.

So it is a lot of guesswork now. My digestion improves (ghost wipes) and skin dryness goes away when I use coconut oil but sadly I am allergic to even the refined one (get skin inflammation and stronger brain fog). Anyway, as fats are absorbed in the small intestine and coconut oil is antimicrobial I believe my issue is the small intestine.
 

mostlylurking

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@mostlylurking Thanks, that is super helpful. I managed to get rid of helicobacter, klebsiella, citerobacter, streptococcus, pseudomonas etc. with herbs too. However, I still have high valeric acid in my stool and my digestion, while improved, is not great.

So it is a lot of guesswork now. My digestion improves (ghost wipes) and skin dryness goes away when I use coconut oil but sadly I am allergic to even the refined one (get skin inflammation and stronger brain fog). Anyway, as fats are absorbed in the small intestine and coconut oil is antimicrobial I believe my issue is the small intestine.
Have you had your thyroid function checked? The intestine is constantly renewing itself. If your thyroid function is low, the intestine cannot repair/renew itself. I spent many years plagued with leaky gut and many many food allergies. These just about incapacitated me. I was extremely deficient in stomach acid. The $2,400.00 Alcat food sensitivity test revealed that I was almost universally reactive. These issues all went away when I got my hypothyroidism addressed and followed a Ray Peat inspired diet.

Skin dryness and inflammation are signs of hypothyroidism and also of polyunsaturated fats. They stay inside you a long time (4 years+). Some niacinamide can help keep them parked inside the fat cells instead of coming into the blood stream as free fatty acids.

Are you eating Ray Peat's carrot salad, cooked mushrooms, or bamboo shoots daily? These help massively with gut health. Gut repair is helped along with thiamine hcl and magnesium. But the most important thing is that thyroid function.

Does it take longer than it should for little skin injuries to heal?
 

qwazy

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I had super low stomach acid and fixed it by killing h pylori and using betaine hcl for a while. So hopefully that is not an issue anymore but I did not get a proper test for it.

I have eaten fairly low PUFA for the last 5 years so hopefully I am not too high in them anymore. Anyway, probably I have to get my thyroid checked again. The last test was after I used some lugol's iodine while on keto which may have screwed up the results:
  • TSH = 0.046mU/l
  • fT4 = 23.3pmol/l (3.77pg/ml)
  • fT3 = 5.79pmol/l (18.1ng/l)
As far as I can remember my TSH has always been below 1.0mU/l but that could have been caused by low carb. I think my skin heals slowly but I am not sure. So some things really feel like hypothyroid (cold feet, dry skin, gut issues, brain fog). However, my issues go away when I hit the gut quite hard with antimicrobials so I am a little unsure if the gut is causing the thyroid issues or if it is the other way round.

Cannot do the carrot as I seem to be also allergic to raw carrot but the button mushrooms are just amazing. They have been the best thing for my gut in a long time.

Edit: Stress hormones are probably elevated in me. Unless I use the antimicrobials I am unable to take naps. Basically my body will just not shut down.
 
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mostlylurking

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I had super low stomach acid and fixed it by killing h pylori and using betaine hcl for a while. So hopefully that is not an issue anymore but I did not get a proper test for it.

I have eaten fairly low PUFA for the last 5 years so hopefully I am not too high in them anymore. Anyway, probably I have to get my thyroid checked again. The last test was after I used some lugol's iodine while on keto which may have screwed up the results:
  • TSH = 0.046mU/l
  • fT4 = 23.3pmol/l (3.77pg/ml)
  • fT3 = 5.79pmol/l (18.1ng/l)
As far as I can remember my TSH has always been below 1.0mU/l but that could have been caused by low carb. I think my skin heals slowly but I am not sure. So some things really feel like hypothyroid (cold feet, dry skin, gut issues, brain fog). However, my issues go away when I hit the gut quite hard with antimicrobials so I am a little unsure if the gut is causing the thyroid issues or if it is the other way round.

Cannot do the carrot as I seem to be also allergic to raw carrot but the button mushrooms are just amazing. They have been the best thing for my gut in a long time.

Edit: Stress hormones are probably elevated in me. Unless I use the antimicrobials I am unable to take naps. Basically my body will just not shut down.
My TSH is always very low too. Thankfully, my 84 year old endocrinologist has seen it before so he just ignores the number. I think it's about .021 now, if that.

I couldn't do the carrots either until I learned to rinse the oily orange stuff (carotene) off of them. Now I can't seem to tolerate vinegar. So I'm doing mushrooms instead. I've improved on them. I'll try carrots again; mushrooms every day tend to go slimy after a while.

I'm good as long I stick to my diet. So I have incentive.

Are you taking any niacinamide? I found it helpful. Are you taking any thiamine?

About the slow to heal owies: before I got my thyroid medication optimized, I would get little wounds on my forearms when gardening (roses). They took forever to heal. Like over 2 years. I think that I probably had the same problem internally but didn't know it.

I got messed up last summer/fall from taking antibiotics for a UTI. I finally was successful getting it to go away after 3 different antibiotics. Although I had no pain in my gut and things seemed sort of normal, they weren't. I developed a thiamine deficiency. It takes thiamine and magnesium to heal the gut and I couldn't absorb it. Ray Peat told me to eat mushrooms daily to heal my gut. It's been 3 months; I'm finally starting to feel normal again regarding my energy level.

I've learned to be really careful what I put in there. I'd have to be in really big trouble to take antibiotics again.
 

qwazy

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Seems like I have to find a good endocrinologist but even that is nearly impossible.

I noticed that when I prepare the carrots in advance and let them soak in vinegar I did not have the allergic reaction to them. But also I did not notice any benefits from them. Perhaps the allergic reaction to the fresh ones gives me the bowel movement. Will test just rinsing them.

I have tried niacinamide in low doses (50-100mg) with a lot of sugar. Have not noticed anything so I might try a 500mg dose soon. I did try thiamine on keto in large doses but did not notice anything except a sulfur flavor.

Ok, my skin luckily does not take 2 years to heal. However, my guess is that some gut bug is messing up my skin integrity. Everytime I use strong antimicrobials this reduces a lot but returens after a while again.

So far I tried to avoid any strong antibiotics but I am running out of options. Right now I am testing chlorine dioxide which probably is not the healthiest substance either but I am seeing good progress.
 

Gustav3Y

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I’ve used and am using amoxicillin. Not sure augmentin is any better. Or maybe it’s worse. Seems like a gimmick. Amoxicillin has fixed h pylori so aspirin doesn’t bother my stomach at all.
Depends what for, for reducing an acute tooth infection with swelling Amoxicilin did nothing for me, switching to Augumentin the infection and it's effects reduced fast.
I know many consider Amoxilicin too weak for most hard infections where you need quick relief, at least the medical staff around me.
 
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