Atlantis

[gretchen]

Last week I had some cramps one day while on my period and stayed home and watched this You Tube video on Atlantis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EylVLG_nXo

I've been thinking a lot the last week about the parallels between Atlantean times and our current culture. My feeling is, if people don't understand it, they can't understand most of the current issues such as in the government, education, economy, etc.

What do you think? Do think Atlantis was a real place or is it just a myth? Is American culture Atlantean?

 

[charlie]

Most likely from the first earth age. And yes, there are stunning parallels and its all documented you just need to know where to look.

 

[4peatssake]

Unfortunately, humanity continues to make the same mistakes - worshiping technology - and ultimately destroying itself.

Sad, but true.

 

[narouz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis

Being a former hippie, and thus immersed in considerable New Age notions,
I am not immune to the charms of Atlantis.

But from what perspective are you coming at this topic?
-New Age?
-Tolkien?
-fringe Christian?
-Theosophist?
-Edgar Cayce?

 

[gretchen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis

Being a former hippie, and thus immersed in considerable New Age notions,
I am not immune to the charms of Atlantis.

But from what perspective are you coming at this topic?
-New Age?
-Tolkien?
-fringe Christian?
-Theosophist?
-Edgar Cayce?

I became interested in Atlantis when I was 7 or 8, ever since I heard about the archaeological excavations of Tutenkhamen's tomb (which were popular in the late 70s). I also was influenced by Edith Hamilton's Mythology, a book my mother read in college and kept around our house.

Although New Age ideas have been popular much of my life, I believe my interest has to do with past lives, and is not the result of indoctrination.

My view is that Atlantis is a real place and probable template of our current culture. But I am interested in other views also.

 

[ratcheer]

People have been "finding" Atlantis for hundreds if not thousands of years. Even if there really was an Atlantis, the amount of information available is practically nothing except for tidbits here and there - which makes sense in that there is very sparse information for most societies of ancient history. But then when the narrative is so complete that you can conclude that society is making the same mistakes, worshiping technology etc - that's not because there is real information to such a fine level of detail, it's because we project our own stories and feelings about today's world on to that mythical time.

The same thing happens with diets - Paleo is a great example because it also tells a story that's very appealing at a gut level, even if it has very little resemblance to actual human history.

 

[4peatssake]

But then when the narrative is so complete that you can conclude that society is making the same mistakes, worshiping technology etc - that's not because there is real information to such a fine level of detail, it's because we project our own stories and feelings about today's world on to that mythical time.

 

[gretchen]

People have been "finding" Atlantis for hundreds if not thousands of years. Even if there really was an Atlantis, the amount of information available is practically nothing except for tidbits here and there - which makes sense in that there is very sparse information for most societies of ancient history. But then when the narrative is so complete that you can conclude that society is making the same mistakes, worshiping technology etc - that's not because there is real information to such a fine level of detail, it's because we project our own stories and feelings about today's world on to that mythical time.

The same thing happens with diets - Paleo is a great example because it also tells a story that's very appealing at a gut level, even if it has very little resemblance to actual human history.

No, not true. We have the account of Plato who heard the story from Solon the Statesman:
http://www.theoi.com/Phylos/Atlantes.html

If I can sufficiently remember and report the tale once told by the priests and brought hither by Solon, I am wellnigh convinced that I shall appear to the present audience to have fulfilled my task adequately. This, then, I must at once proceed to do, and procrastinate no longer.

 

[ratcheer]

No, not true. We have the account of Plato who heard the story from Solon the Statesman:
http://www.theoi.com/Phylos/Atlantes.html

If I can sufficiently remember and report the tale once told by the priests and brought hither by Solon, I am wellnigh convinced that I shall appear to the present audience to have fulfilled my task adequately. This, then, I must at once proceed to do, and procrastinate no longer.

Well, two things. OK three, 1) the first being I AM being somewhat persnickety here, but mean no disrespect. I have a lot of interest in mythology and history and what's 'true' and how do we KNOW it's true - all sort of convoluted stuff like that. I actually am open to these ideas, but don't like to be swayed just because I want it to be so. Anyway, 2) this is a story Plato tells of a story he heard from Solon who heard it from priests who tell of 'long ago' - not the most attested kind of document. Also, 3) further down that same page, Plutarch says:

Plutarch, Life of Solon 32. 1 :
"Plato, ambitious to elaborate and adorn the subject of the lost Atlantis, as if it were the soil of a fair estate unoccupied, but appropriately his by virtue of some kinship with Solon, began the work by laying out great porches, enclosures, and courtyards, such as no story, tale, or poesy ever had before. But he was late in beginning, and ended his life before his work. Therefore the greater our delight in what he actually wrote, the greater is our distress in view of what he left undone. For as the Olympieion in the city of Athens, so the tale of the lost Atlantis in the wisdom of Plato is the only one among many beautiful works to remain unfinished."

 

[gretchen]

There are a lot of clues throughout antiquity/history, indicating a world-wide cultural knowledge and preservation of it as a place.

There's some map that looks like what Plato described carved in a cave they found in Knowth, Ireland:
http://www.mythicalireland.com/ancients ... knowth.php

A scale model also like the Plato description is found in Stonehenge:
http://www.philipcoppens.com/stone_ave.html

Egyptians preserved knowledge of Atlantis in their hieorglyphs; they called it Amentet:
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

The Hindus called it Atala ("white island"):
http://humansarefree.com/2011/09/atlant ... tions.html

Atlantis may have been alluded to in the 1st Epistle of Clement, 20:8
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... tfoot.html

1Clem 20:8
The ocean which is impassable for men, and the worlds beyond it, are
directed by the same ordinances of the Master.

The "impassable ocean" echoes the writings of Hesiod and Homer.

Pre-Platonic writings pertinent to Atlantis:
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Writings.html

The writings pre-Plato therefore negate Plutarch's comment that Plato "started too late" and "didn't finish his work"- there were already writings about Atlantis. Also, there is some evidence that the writings of Solon were carefully preserved, even to Plutarch's time:
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Plato.html

Solon was said to have taken down notes during his visit to Egypt to be used as a basis for the poem—notes which might have been available in Plato's day. Moreover, Plutarch is known to have utilized a vast number of manuscripts (many of which are now lost) when writing his "Lives"—the fact that he seemed to know the names of the priests (never mentioned by Plato) proves that Plutarch had sources other than Plato, raising the question of the possible survival of Solon's notes down to his day as well.

They would not have kept the notes if they did not value them and think they were true.

---------------------
https://sites.google.com/site/tribesofa ... s-emporium

This researcher mentions that a Jesuit priest named Athanasius Kircher (1602-1680) found a map of Atlantis in the Vatican which he published in his book Mundus Subterraneus in 1665.A.D.

He also makes a couple of good points, which is that by not taking Plato on his word for his account we are in effect denouncing all the Greek philosophers and ancient priests who have kept the Truth and denying their Reality:
Whereas if we say that Atlantis doesn't exist and those authors all swore to truth, then we would have to say that they didn't exist either for a lie has no spirit to continue eternaly.

---------------------------
Just this past week they have uncovered the "mythical" ancient city of Heraklion in Egypt; Heraklion of course is from the name of the Greek God Heracles/Hercules:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/2 ... 78208.html

 

[gretchen]

I found this article last week which provides some explanations of how the Internet is helping people to become more comfortable with the fact of Atlantis, due to the decreasing influence of elite media-driven narratives:

The Renaissance Rediscovered Greece: Is The 'Net Reformation Doing the Same for Lost Civilizations?
http://www.thedailybell.com/28584/The-R ... ilizations

I watched the series mentioned in the article Pyramid Power last week. It gives some of the alternative views of Egyptian history. The Sphinx is likely the main proof of a High Civilization/Atlantis, and is dated at somewhere between 9-35,000 years ago. Watch this video for even more info; there is very real geological evidence which makes it essentially the smoking gun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhDmCuffwOI

 

[gretchen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis

Being a former hippie, and thus immersed in considerable New Age notions,
I am not immune to the charms of Atlantis.

But from what perspective are you coming at this topic?
-New Age?
-Tolkien?
-fringe Christian?
-Theosophist?
-Edgar Cayce?

I became interested in Atlantis when I was 7 or 8, ever since I heard about the archaeological excavations of Tutenkhamen's tomb (which were popular in the late 70s). I also was influenced by Edith Hamilton's Mythology, a book my mother read in college and kept around our house.

Although New Age ideas have been popular much of my life, I believe my interest has to do with past lives, and is not the result of indoctrination.

My view is that Atlantis is a real place and probable template of our current culture. But I am interested in other views also.

Sorry, can't resist. This story is already a week old but what do you know, they are SPYING on us!
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Exposi ... 2-489.html

 

[gretchen]

I actually started reading about the NSA last summer.
http://www.sott.net/article/262689-Thro ... ic-amnesia

 

[Hugh Johnson]

My view is that Atlantis is a real place and probable template of our current culture. But I am interested in other views also.

I half agree. It is a template for our current culture. John Greer wrote about the pararrels between Atlantis and the current culture recently in The Archdruid Report. It does not mean it was necessarily a real place, anymore than the stories of the dragons killed by Sigurd and Marduk are factual accounts. In the ancient times myth and history were not separate. These stories tell are about how we should relate to reality, other people and how we should organize the society.

I'm not going to go on any longer, but if you are interested here is Greer's take on the Atlantis:

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.fi/2014/04/the-time-of-seedbearers.html

 

[mt_dreams]

We seem to have trouble with the notion that intelligence was possessed before the last ice age, aka before the birth of agriculture. I remember reading something from rupert sheldrake where he mentions that Egypt was built in two stages, one before the the great storms of 12k+ years ago, and the 2nd stage several thousand years later. It's funny b/c the older pyramids are pretty much perfect in construction, while the 2nd wave of pyramids have many minor faults. So it would seem we lost a bit of that human ability due to the chaos from migration.

It's tough for the facts of history to last past storms/ice ages which last tens of thousands of years. And one can only imagine that the broken telephone made what was actual events, into creative myths we know today.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Does he have any proof? Anyone can make up stuff.

 

[mt_dreams]

Does he have any proof? Anyone can make up stuff.

Well as with all things that go against popular belief, his findings are not being taken seriously. I guess being ridiculed is better than being burned, which is what would have happened if he proposed this 500 years ago.

He worked with the geologist john anthony west, and geophysicist robert schoch, who I'm sure have also been ridiculed from time to time. The term for the hypothesis is "Sphinx water erosion hypothesis". It would shatter many stronghold beliefs if evidence of this kind of human intellect before the last large flooding was agreed upon, so I don't see it being debated anytime soon. Unlike other people labeled under Pseudoarchaeology, graham Handcock makes sure he always has plausible scientific evidence before making claims. But I'm sure like many observers trying to make a point, he's probably hand selected facts from time to time. His interest in drugs like dmt, shrooms, & ayhuasca has not helped his credibility with all the squares who hold high positions in the field of archeology.

 

[gretchen]

n/m.....................................................

 

[gretchen]

Does he have any proof? Anyone can make up stuff.

Marine archeologists recently found what they think is the metal mentioned in Plato's account, orichalcum:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... icily.html

A mythical metal said by ancient Greeks to be found in the lost city of Atlantis has been recovered from a ship that sunk 2,600 years ago off the coast

 

[pboy]

indian culture goes back 15000 years, from their perspective (not the English and western skewed history and propaganda) and a lo of their texts and passed down words tell how humans have never changed, biologically or capably since then...basically we've just changed how we live and technology and stuff but humans have been the same for 15000 years or more on this earth, evolutionarily speaking or whatever...so im sure theres been civilizations that have risen and fallen all over the world that aren't known or untraceable. Those monuments in Bolivia are from 12'000 BC according to many people, and they clearly had a lot of energy to throw around and some level of mathematical technology. I guess the point is, who cares man...there probably has been civilizations and all kinds of stuff, but what we have now is what we have to deal with, and its unlikely they had any technology we don't know...in terms of machines and stuff. They had often more developed mental and ways of life than people do now, by a lot actually, but probably never even had electricity. Its cool to talk about but kind of irrelivent to our actual lives now