athletics and working hard

Discussion in 'Logs' started by ineffable500, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. ineffable500

    ineffable500 Member

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    Hello, thanks to all for creating a space for Ray Peat-related discussion. This is my first post on this board. These days, I don't use the internet frequently, and I spend a lot of my time working or doing other physical activity in the real world.

    Ray Peat's dietary ideas have helped me with this, I can say without a doubt, based on my athletic energy and coordination (but said improvement is only most especially true if I have consumed lots of sugar within the last few hours). I am now on the "mountain" skiing or snowboarding most days since this winter season has begun in Winter Park, CO. Therefore, I live my life between 7500 feet and 12000 feet.

    Last winter, I was on the raw animal products Primal Diet. My emotions were fairly stable though isolationist and I stayed warm, but it was a struggle to be so stringently strict, forcing myself to eat. I had to force myself to eat. However, now, on the Peat diet, I still do, and not even sugary things really taste all that good to me and I never crave/want to eat or drink anything. I don't have acute digestive discomfort, but often some tightness-type mild discomfort/fought-off nausea/aversion to eating, but not bloating.

    ... ... I've done a lot of edible clay, fulvic acid, aetheric waters, and other supplemental alchemy stuff like that.

    Mainly, the interesting thing to me, why I'm writing, is that I seem to have too-low body fat. I've always been lean and reasonably muscular, and over the summer as I started on the Peat protocols, not much changed and I had more energy. But during the recent "mud season," I worked long days of construction while eating on average coffee with sugar (or medicinal mushroom tea with sugar and clay etc.), lots of OJ, raw grassfed cheese, potatoes with several tablespoons of coconut oil, and some meat.

    I have taken a total of one or two cytomel pills split into microdoses. I've also done two phases of about a week or so where I took 25mg pills of DHEA, in order to reset my internal "set point" to be higher. The first DHEA time my knee arthritis went away and hasn't come back, even though now I don't even have any fat below my kneecaps!

    I think the couple-weeks long period of 3-6 tbsp coconut oil/day really changed my cellular makeup (combined also with resetting my hormonal and thermogenic set-point with the cytomel, dhea, and consistent high sugar consumption). And now I seem to myself to be slightly hyperthyroid, maybe...: kindof slightly hyperreactive to foods, due to having no body fat reserves to buffer the influx of foreign material from the digestive system. Dependent on continual input of sugars for peak performance (but who isn't).

    I feel a bit run-down and tired, but also, at the same time now, at the top of my game athletically and metabolically. Maybe my state is mostly dependent on motivation...but I do think my body fat is too low.

    Clearly I've done a lot of dietary stuff "wrong" and "foolish things." Maybe it'll balance out in the end if I quit eating clay, coconut oil, decrease OJ, eat organic bananas, lots of eggs with melted cheese, ice cream, some meat, and maybe go back to coffee with sugar once I've gained a little bit of weight. Maybe some beer too.

    I probably won't become an enthusiastic regular poster, but if anyone's had any similar experiences I'd be interested to hear if their body eventually recovered to a more stable--rather than competition-ready--level. Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed my story.
     
  2. caroline

    caroline Member

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    My husband is very athletic and very lean. He is a surfer and the water here is very cold, and he is in his 50's so he is very careful about how he eats and definitely eats for energy and longevity. Maybe this is helpful for you--I hope so. I was thinking since you mentioned you are very lean, that what he feels essential to maintaining good energy and vitality might give you some ideas.

    He eats Peat-ISH but very different than I do. He eats a lot more meat, a lot more protein, and more starch. (I made him a milk drink with canned pumpkin, banana, coconut oil, gelatin, salt, and an egg--and this is what he has every night before going to bed, with or without the egg in it). And he eats way more fat than the amount you mentioned. Lots and lots of coconut oil since he doesn't do butter. Also, he has a chocolate shake in the day at some point: cocoa powder, milk, coconut oil, salt, banana.

    Hope you figure out what you need to make everything work for you.
     
  3. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    ineffable500: 25mg of DHEA a day is maybe to much? body produces only 5-10 a day i think so that can turn to estrogen.

    Would love to be in your shoes, im hypothyroid :p
    Interesting thar you think C.oil, DHEA, cynoplus made those changes and sugar in terms of getting your metabolism up or that it helped you. Hasnt done that much for me still.

    caroline: thats cool, whats his weight and how much protein does he gets in a day in terms of grams?
     
  4. caroline

    caroline Member

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    HI, I think he weighs about 170something and is about 6ft2. He is not eating any PUFA but still eats kale, and uses curry. Also, he does NOT do coffee--just cocoa. I wondered about this with Ineffable after his mention of issues. At least for my husband, coffee makes him feel nervous and upset. A sip of mine isn't bad, but perhaps if Ineffable is not feeling enough "solidity" with this way of eating, drinking coffee might not be optimal or at least not in large amounts.

    Also, he does not eat sugar like I do; he is eating more now, after seeing the benefits for me, but he eats it in the form of sugared ginger cubes. He definitely gets well over 100 grams--probably at least 150 if not more. He likes his kale, but boils it thoroughly before eating it with ground beef or ground lamb.
     
  5. caroline

    caroline Member

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    Sorry, I meant that his protein is at least 150 grams; he has been emulating higher amounts since I mentioned Ray Peat's mention of his preference for 150grams or greater.
     
  6. AmandaWald

    AmandaWald Member

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    Older people need more protein than younger people, I have read. As Ray Peat is - I believe - in his late 70s, he definitely qualifies for the label "older people".

    For a younger person, the protein recommendations used to be 1g per kg of body weight. I think if you aim for that and add on a bit more for good measure, you should be fine.

    Has Ray Peat ever actually said, "Everybody should eat the way I do"?

    I don't think he has. I think his aim is to put together information that we can use and apply to our own lives, but I think he would be the last person to say that there was a "one-size-fits-all" diet. He doesn't come across as that dogmatic or rigid.

    Just sayin'.
     
  7. caroline

    caroline Member

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    I wasn't implying everyone should eat a certain amount of protein. I have no idea what works with certainty, for myself or anyone else; I was answering Ineffable's question about how much protein my husband eats. He is eating more b/c it makes him feel better. He doesn't blindly do anything--when I read things that appeal to him, like Ray's mention of eating lots of protein, he made more of an effort to eat more protein b/c he was feeling like he needed more energy and it seems to work well for him.
     
  8. OP
    ineffable500

    ineffable500 Member

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    Hi Caroline et all:

    Thanks for your interesting and respectful replies and observations.

    Yes, the 25mg DHEA is too much. But, when I do it, I feel a noticable boost in strength, focus, mood, and energy metabolism/strength for a couple days after one or two days of the dose, but after that it does feel like I've got too much estrogen building, so I don't do the dhea long term. However, I think some people, like from the Life Extension Foundation followers crew, have done 25 mg/day for longer times. I don't know what the most common long-term results are. Since I've had some success with the DHEA, and since I'm athletic, I'd love to find some 'Roids that work and are safe--i.e. don't raise estrogen too much while raising testosterone. Perhaps tribulus or tomcat ali herbs would be worth trying.

    When I eat a lot of coconut oil, it definitely ramps my energy, but I find it hard to keep up with enough protein and sugar intake.

    Yes, Caroline, I agree with the experience of your husband that protein is important, but for me, nothing works for "protein" in the same way as cooked and raw beef or lamb (or probably wild game). I don't know why; perhaps it's the lysine amino acid helping with my anabolic needs, or the other amino acids helping to chelate and remove minerals.

    I've enjoyed giving blood and I think it helps get rid of iron, but it's also taxing and contributed to my past mentioned "drained" feeling. This feeling and excessive leanness is gone now, I'm managing to eat enough calories now it seems. I've been eating more haagen dazs ice cream and also gummi worms/snacks which are made with sugar, gelatin, and chemicals. I like fully-ripe organic bananas too, help with digestion, but need to be balanced with meat at some other meal.

    I like coffee with sugar (and clay), seems to work well for me.

    Not ideal, but given the world, I'll call it optimal in the NOW, and I'll keep trying (in time) since there's nothing else to do but try to get better.

    Yes, things are pretty good for me as I'm pretty healthy, and I do appreciate this and I hope and applaud for all who are not so healthy but who are also actually working at and developing an understanding. For me, I might get angry at "God" for allowing folks to beat me at whatever-it-is with just their God-given talent and bucketfull of vices. So, who's to say what's a vice at all? I guess Ray Peat doesn't say how everybody should eat. I wonder about sled dogs and wolves: they have energy to run all day and not eat for days in a row, then eat tons of fat and meat even fish full of PUFA, and no sugar, then after a short nap go running again. How do they operate their mitochondria and metabolism different than us?

    Sincerely,
    Zarrin Leff
     
  9. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    I saw a couple of papers where they showed how the Eskimos' enzymes treat some PUFAs in different ways than ours do... adaptation goes a long way. Think about the antioxidant system that a grizzly bear must have, for instance.
     
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