Aspirin - Safety Guide

[DaveFoster]

How do you guys dose aspirin without avoiding an ulcer? How slowly do you titrate the dose, and do you guys find that it's still risky even with adequate K2 and vitamin C?

I currently have fibromyalgia (or regional pain syndrome,) and I'm curious to try aspirin long-term to reduce pain and prevent neural degeneration over the long-term (anti-aging).

 

[Tarmander]

I've never had problems doing a single dose of 300mg once a week or so. I think if I wanted to start doing more id try it with collagen/gelatin to prevent the ulcer.

You used to do super high calories right? Did that help or hinder your fibro ?

 

[Sucrates]

Dissolve it in water with either (2X) sodium bicarbonate or glycine, that will limit any stomach problem.

 

[HealthisWealth]

I also want to ask if you need to take with Vitamin K2 or it differs?

Right now im taking afternoon 300mg and 80mg before sleeping. I think im now at day 16

I dont feel any stomach discomfort. I hope it stays that way

 

[keith]

From RP article, Aspirin, Brain, and Cancer:

"Until the 1950s and 1960s, when new products were being promoted, little was said about the possibility of stomach ulceration from aspirin. Lately, there has been more publicity about the damage it can do to the stomach and intestine, much of it in connection with the sale of the new "COX-2 inhibitors." (These new drugs, rather than protecting the circulatory system as aspirin does, damage it.) Aspirin rapidly breaks down into acetic acid and salicylic acid (which is found in many fruits), and salicylic acid is protective to the stomach and intestine, and other organs. When aspirin was compared with the other common antiinflammatory drugs, it was found that the salicylic acid it releases protects against the damage done by another drug. (Takeuchi, et al, 2001; Ligumsky, et al., 1985.) Repeated use of aspirin protects the stomach against very strong irritants. The experiments in which aspirin produces stomach ulcers are designed to produce ulcers, not to realistically model the way aspirin is used."

My personal experience:
Lately I've been using Aniprin, which is powder form, and if you dissolve it completely, I think there is probably zero risk of ulcer. I've taken the pills, in the past, specifically the type that only contained aspirin and starch, and had no problems with those either. They can also be dissolve completely, which is probably safest, if you have concern about ulceration. I think Healthnatura was going to release a pure aspirin powder, but seems to have gotten bogged down in the legalities of selling it. I would prefer that to a product meant for animals, but Aniprin does claim to just be pure aspirin powder, so hopefully it is pretty pure.

As far as using aspirin as a pain killer, I regularly use it for headaches (well, not that regularly, but whenever I get a headache, which isn't all that often), but I couldn't take the dose needed to eliminate pain on a regular basis, so personally couldn't rely on it for a chronic condition. I'm a pretty big guy, and generally need 4 Advil or aspirin to kill a headache. 1300 mg Aniprin usually works fine, but I find if I take that dose more than a couple of times in a row, I seem to thin my blood too much, and while the Healthnatura K2 does seem too prevent excess bleeding (kuinone didn't work as well for me, for some reason, although I love Haidut's other products), too much aspirin still makes me feel off (may be a separate issue from thinning blood), in a general way I can't really describe, except I felt like I shouldn't be taking it so much. I do regularly take 700mg to a gram per day, which seems to be a good amount for me for general health. It probably wouldn't be enough to help with pain management though. My . Your experience may vary significantly from mine, though. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[DaveFoster]

I've never had problems doing a single dose of 300mg once a week or so. I think if I wanted to start doing more id try it with collagen/gelatin to prevent the ulcer.

You used to do super high calories right? Did that help or hinder your fibro ?

I didn't have fibro when I did my high calories, but this was 4 months ago. (I got fibro 2 months ago.) If I'm in a hypothyroid state my fibro gets bad, but I can generally keep it under control.

Dissolve it in water with either (2X) sodium bicarbonate or glycine, that will limit any stomach problem.

True; the "ideal" ratio is 1:4 aspirin to baking soda.

I also want to ask if you need to take with Vitamin K2 or it differs?

Right now im taking afternoon 300mg and 80mg before sleeping. I think im now at day 16

I dont feel any stomach discomfort. I hope it stays that way

It's 1 mg K2 for every 325 mg aspirin. If you take a baby asprin, no K2 should be needed.

From RP article, Aspirin, Brain, and Cancer:

"Until the 1950s and 1960s, when new products were being promoted, little was said about the possibility of stomach ulceration from aspirin. Lately, there has been more publicity about the damage it can do to the stomach and intestine, much of it in connection with the sale of the new "COX-2 inhibitors." (These new drugs, rather than protecting the circulatory system as aspirin does, damage it.) Aspirin rapidly breaks down into acetic acid and salicylic acid (which is found in many fruits), and salicylic acid is protective to the stomach and intestine, and other organs. When aspirin was compared with the other common antiinflammatory drugs, it was found that the salicylic acid it releases protects against the damage done by another drug. (Takeuchi, et al, 2001; Ligumsky, et al., 1985.) Repeated use of aspirin protects the stomach against very strong irritants. The experiments in which aspirin produces stomach ulcers are designed to produce ulcers, not to realistically model the way aspirin is used."

My personal experience:
Lately I've been using Aniprin, which is powder form, and if you dissolve it completely, I think there is probably zero risk of ulcer. I've taken the pills, in the past, specifically the type that only contained aspirin and starch, and had no problems with those either. They can also be dissolve completely, which is probably safest, if you have concern about ulceration. I think Healthnatura was going to release a pure aspirin powder, but seems to have gotten bogged down in the legalities of selling it. I would prefer that to a product meant for animals, but Aniprin does claim to just be pure aspirin powder, so hopefully it is pretty pure.

As far as using aspirin as a pain killer, I regularly use it for headaches (well, not that regularly, but whenever I get a headache, which isn't all that often), but I couldn't take the dose needed to eliminate pain on a regular basis, so personally couldn't rely on it for a chronic condition. I'm a pretty big guy, and generally need 4 Advil or aspirin to kill a headache. 1300 mg Aniprin usually works fine, but I find if I take that dose more than a couple of times in a row, I seem to thin my blood too much, and while the Healthnatura K2 does seem too prevent excess bleeding (kuinone didn't work as well for me, for some reason, although I love Haidut's other products), too much aspirin still makes me feel off (may be a separate issue from thinning blood), in a general way I can't really describe, except I felt like I shouldn't be taking it so much. I do regularly take 700mg to a gram per day, which seems to be a good amount for me for general health. It probably wouldn't be enough to help with pain management though. My . Your experience may vary significantly from mine, though. Good luck and best wishes.

Thanks for sharing; your higher dosages is comforting.

 

[Dopamine]

K2 didn't help me with stomach pain, glycine maybe did.

1. I would dissolve the aspirin in juice or water

2. Ginger is very helpful in my experience. I made some posts on ginger aspirin combo in this thread:

Curcumin (curry) Is Serotonergic

Dosage I use is 1:1 ratio aspirin:ginger if powdered ginger.

1:2 ratio if fresh ginger. You can probably just eyeball it.

I think I also saw a study showing ginger lowers muscle pain better than aspirin- both are anti-inflammatory. You could maybe even just take ginger by itself.

 

[Tarmander]

I didn't have fibro when I did my high calories, but this was 4 months ago. (I got fibro 2 months ago.) If I'm in a hypothyroid state my fibro gets bad, but I can generally keep it under control.

So it is recent huh? I noticed that I started to get some fibro symptoms when I was doing too much physical exercise given how much I was eating. I also think EMF and the blood sugar lowering effect of that played a critical role in keeping this heightened excited state in me. This burned through my muscles and caused a lot of pain. Food for thought.

 

[DaveFoster]

So it is recent huh? I noticed that I started to get some fibro symptoms when I was doing too much physical exercise given how much I was eating. I also think EMF and the blood sugar lowering effect of that played a critical role in keeping this heightened excited state in me. This burned through my muscles and caused a lot of pain. Food for thought.

I can relate to the state of heightened excitation. I'm finding coffee very helpful for keeping down serotonin and allowing for recovery, and I believe naltrexone has helped a great deal. I also take vitamin E, pregnenolone, K2, and a baby aspirin.

K2 didn't help me with stomach pain, glycine maybe did.

1. I would dissolve the aspirin in juice or water

2. Ginger is very helpful in my experience. I made some posts on ginger aspirin combo in this thread:

Curcumin (curry) Is Serotonergic

Dosage I use is 1:1 ratio aspirin:ginger if powdered ginger.

1:2 ratio if fresh ginger. You can probably just eyeball it.

I think I also saw a study showing ginger lowers muscle pain better than aspirin- both are anti-inflammatory. You could maybe even just take ginger by itself.

Interesting; I found this: Protective Effects of Ginger against Aspirin-Induced Gastric Ulcers in Rats

 

[ecstatichamster]

For me baking soda went so far. Collagen made the big difference. I can take 1g of aspirin in a full stomach with no discomfort.

Have you checked out the serrapeptase thread @DaveFoster ?

Serrapeptase Experiment

 

[DaveFoster]

For me baking soda went so far. Collagen made the big difference. I can take 1g of aspirin in a full stomach with no discomfort.

Have you checked out the serrapeptase thread @DaveFoster ?

Serrapeptase Experiment

VERY interesting. I think I'm going to try it. I commented on the thread.

 

[Herbie]

I take 1x 500mg bayer soluble aspirin in 30-50 ml of water on empty or full stomach, have used 3-4 grams a day at times and never had any negative side effects or issues over the past 12 months of using it. I have Thorne k2 on hand but don't always use it.

I always feel a therapeutic effect shortly after ingestion.

I did have issues with hemorrhoids before Peating and found that once I started having 6x table spoons of great lakes gelatine per day Ive fully recovered.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

I only take it when I get a headache (sometimes that's once a week, sometimes it's 4-5 times a day) in a dose of 160 to 240 mg. I've never taken vitamin k. Never had any bleeding problems, ulcers, etc. I think it totally depends on the person.

 

[lollipop]

I have found 2 x 325mg tabs of the just aspirin and starch variety with 8 oz whole milk occasionally just at bedtime if:

a) can't seem to fall asleep (stress hormones) happens maybe once a week or every few weeks or

b) if having the beginning of a hormonal headache (too much estrogen) Rare - maybe every few months.

Occasionally take Health Natura k2 and honestly from this prudent use of aspirin have never experienced any problems.

Not sure I would use it as a gut repair strategy for me. I agree with @DaveFoster lysine seems better and helpful.

What I used to get myself on track:

Digestive Enzymes - Digest Gold -


Digest Gold™


It is cheeper on Amazon:

Enzymedica - Digest Gold with ATPro, Optimal Digestive Support, 240 Capsules (FFP) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HLXPTFA/?tag=rapefo-20


*take 1 or 2 with each meal
*AND take 10 daily on empty stomach (20 in the beginning for a week or so - 10 on empty stomach morning and evening - 1 hr BEFORE food or 2 hours AFTER food, otherwise they just digest food).

This site talks about it:

Enzymes, Respiration, and Congested Breathing


*Probiotic: the one that works the BEST is a bifidum product especially for lower bowel problems, super clean though expensive.

Here is the link for the bifidum product. Scroll down until you see 5 strain bifidum.

Five Strain Bifidobacteria

*Aloe Vera
AloeMannan-FX https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BO7QE4O/?tag=rapefo-20

*Ginger Tea - fresh if can get it. A little honey also helps.

*Lysine - Pure Encapsulation brand

A few more resources for enzymes:

Food Intolerance: A Result of Enzyme Insufficiency or Deficiency

SUPPLEMENTAL DIGESTIVE ENZYMES: GENERALITIES

 

[lollipop]

Oh one thing to my above post. I ONLY needed 2 doses of the 5 strain bifidum. Worked fast and the enzymes were SUPER helpful.

 

[DaveFoster]

Dissolve it in water with either (2X) sodium bicarbonate or glycine, that will limit any stomach problem.

I didn't mean to say 1:4. 1:3 is a good ratio of aspirin to baking soda.

I take 1x 500mg bayer soluble aspirin in 30-50 ml of water on empty or full stomach, have used 3-4 grams a day at times and never had any negative side effects or issues over the past 12 months of using it. I have Thorne k2 on hand but don't always use it.

I always feel a therapeutic effect shortly after ingestion.

I did have issues with hemorrhoids before Peating and found that once I started having 6x table spoons of great lakes gelatine per day Ive fully recovered.

I also have had excellent results with gelatin, coffee, and cascara for rectal bleeding. They're gone.

I only take it when I get a headache (sometimes that's once a week, sometimes it's 4-5 times a day) in a dose of 160 to 240 mg. I've never taken vitamin k. Never had any bleeding problems, ulcers, etc. I think it totally depends on the person.

I agree; people who have had ulcers in the past tend to have problems.

I have found 2 x 325mg tabs of the just aspirin and starch variety with 8 oz whole milk occasionally just at bedtime if:

a) can't seem to fall asleep (stress hormones) happens maybe once a week or every few weeks or

b) if having the beginning of a hormonal headache (too much estrogen) Rare - maybe every few months.

Occasionally take Health Natura k2 and honestly from this prudent use of aspirin have never experienced any problems.

Not sure I would use it as a gut repair strategy for me. I agree with @DaveFoster lysine seems better and helpful.

What I used to get myself on track:

Digestive Enzymes - Digest Gold -


Digest Gold™


It is cheeper on Amazon:

Enzymedica - Digest Gold with ATPro, Optimal Digestive Support, 240 Capsules (FFP) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HLXPTFA/?tag=rapefo-20


*take 1 or 2 with each meal
*AND take 10 daily on empty stomach (20 in the beginning for a week or so - 10 on empty stomach morning and evening - 1 hr BEFORE food or 2 hours AFTER food, otherwise they just digest food).

This site talks about it:

Enzymes, Respiration, and Congested Breathing


*Probiotic: the one that works the BEST is a bifidum product especially for lower bowel problems, super clean though expensive.

Here is the link for the bifidum product. Scroll down until you see 5 strain bifidum.

Five Strain Bifidobacteria

*Aloe Vera
AloeMannan-FX https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BO7QE4O/?tag=rapefo-20

*Ginger Tea - fresh if can get it. A little honey also helps.

*Lysine - Pure Encapsulation brand

A few more resources for enzymes:

Food Intolerance: A Result of Enzyme Insufficiency or Deficiency

SUPPLEMENTAL DIGESTIVE ENZYMES: GENERALITIES

Oh one thing to my above post. I ONLY needed 2 doses of the 5 strain bifidum. Worked fast and the enzymes were SUPER helpful.

I've looked into the bifidobacterium; the problem is it's so expensive. I'm interested in trying ginger.

Jake Thomas (if that's his name IIRC, a forum member,) mentioned that ginger increases the salicin absorption from White Willow bark, (of which salicin is a pro-drug of salicylic acid.) I'm looking into the digestive enzymes, particularly serrapeptase; there's mixed reviews.

 

[lollipop]

@DaveFoster - we are all different for sure. Activated charcoal and casagara did not work for me. I honestly think everything gives mixed results tbt. We are all such vastly different human expressions with different biochemistry, not to mention emotional and mental expressions. I think it needs exploring which is precisely what I have observed from you.

As we know from learning from Ray Peat: Perceive, Think, Act.

 

[Sucrates]

*Probiotic: the one that works the BEST is a bifidum product especially for lower bowel problems, super clean though expensive.

Here is the link for the bifidum product. Scroll down until you see 5 strain bifidum.

Five Strain Bifidobacteria

@lisaferraro How did you come to start using bifidobacteria?
I've been reading a lot about endotoxin and this (higher bifido population) seems to be highly correlated with low levels of endotoxin in the blood, more than anything else aside from avoiding high fat meals.

 

[lollipop]

@lisaferraro How did you come to start using bifidobacteria?
I've been reading a lot about endotoxin and this (higher bifido population) seems to be highly correlated with low levels of endotoxin in the blood, more than anything else aside from avoiding high fat meals.

Hi @Sucrates, A lot of suffering and research. Probiotics never worked and after reading about potential problems, I noticed bifidum was isolated where I needed it and read good things about it, even somewhere here on Ray Peat Forum, do not remember where tbt. Decided to give it a try. It was extremely powerful. Was better after a few uses - bottle was expensive and gave to a family member.

 

[Sucrates]

Hi @Sucrates, A lot of suffering and research. Probiotics never worked and after reading about potential problems, I noticed bifidum was isolated where I needed it and read good things about it, even somewhere here on Ray Peat Forum, do not remember where tbt. Decided to give it a try. It was extremely powerful. Was better after a few uses - bottle was expensive and gave to a family member.

Interesting, I used a lot of probiotics years ago but aside from S.Boullardii they all had very short term effect. Galacto-oligosaccharide will increase bifido and lactobacillus, that's in milk, incl breast milk. There's a few papers on milk formula with GOS decreasing allergies in babies, some allergies might be caused by endotoxin.