Aspirin Reduces Death / Complications From GI Bleeding

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Mar 15, 2015.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Aspirin is commonly bashed by modern medicine as a somewhat useful drug that is severely handicapped by its side effects such as bleeding in the GI tract or brain.
    Well, guess what - aspirin actually protects against mortality and complications caused by GI bleeding. On the other hand, common anti-coagulants such as warfarin make the situation worse. So, it looks like the one major drawback that severely limits aspirin use in clinical practice and general use may turn out to be untrue.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25732717

    "...RESULTS: Of 717 patients with NVUGIB, 56 % (402) were taking at least one antithrombotic agent. Seventy-eight (11 %) patients died in hospital, and 310 (43 %) had severe bleeding (BP < 90 mmHg, HR > 120 b/min, Hb < 7 g/dL on presentation, or transfusion of >3 units). On multivariate analysis, being on aspirin was protective against in-hospital mortality [OR 0.26 (0.13-0.53)], rebleeding [OR 0.31 (0.17-0.59)], and predictive of a shorter hospital stay (coefficient = -4.2 days; 95 % CI -8.7, 0.3). Similarly, being on nonaspirin antiplatelets was protective against in-hospital mortality (P = 0.03). However, being on anticoagulants was predictive of in-hospital complications [OR 2.0 (1.20-3.35)] and severe bleeding [OR 1.69 (1.02-2.82)]. Compared to those not taking any antithrombotics, patients who bled on aspirin were less likely to die in hospital of uncontrolled gastrointestinal bleeding (3.6 vs 0 %, P ≤ 0.01) and systemic cancer (4.9 vs 0 %, P ≤ 0.002), but equally likely to die of cardiovascular/thromboembolic disease, sepsis, and multiorgan failure.
    CONCLUSION: Patients who present with NVUGIB on aspirin had reduced in-hospital mortality and fewer adverse outcomes, while those on anticoagulants had increased in-hospital complications.
     
  2. BobbyDukes

    BobbyDukes Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    how would those bleeding side effects occur? Is it because people are uneducated in using it properly? How does a Peatarian avoid those side effects? I have read the aspirin article, but that was a long time ago!
     
  3. schultz

    schultz Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,786
    From the study...

    "However, those who were on aspirin only had lower in-hospital mortality despite being older and having more co-morbidities than patients in the control group. This is even more remarkable given that older age and the presence of co-morbidities are known independent predictors of adverse outcome in UGIB"
     
  4. jyb

    jyb Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,754
    Location:
    UK
    Aspirin is known to deplete vitamin K2. K2 is involved is the regulation of blood thinning. It seems like when blood becomes "too thin", you start to bleed too easily. So you would need to supplement, unless you're taking so little aspirin that the diet provides enough K2.
     
  5. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,885
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Econ Student
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    So then how much k2, objectively, is necessary to permit supplemental aspirin in the range of 500-3000mg per day spread out with smaller dosages? Is a single 100mcg k2 cap enough or should it be dosed frequently? Perhaps always pair aspirin with vit k? Is there any sort of physiological upper limit to vit k intake?
     
  6. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Peat said 1mg K2 for every 325mg aspirin. So, a capsule of Carlson (5mg) a few time a week should cover most people taking aspirin for prevention. For people taking it for established conditions I guess taking the capsule every day won't hurt and vitamin K2 also has pro-health effects of it own in higher doses.
     
  7. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,885
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Econ Student
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Wait 1mg?!?! Sorry did I read that right? Where do you find k2 in such high dosages??? My bottle here is 100mcg per cap... I take about 1g of aspirin each day and am undercutting the k very strongly.... Now I am quite concerned that I am suffering thin blood or maybe ulcers....
     
  8. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    6,376
    Mk7 k2 from natto persists in the body for many days. If you take this form perhaps you don't need as much?
     
  9. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    1,120
    Relentless Improvement, which I bought a month ago, comes in 15mg pills.

    Edit: If you take that much, you should probably get at least some Vit E supplementation. I take 400 IU, but I don't think have a need for a lot of it.
     
  10. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Most vitamin K2 (MK-4) supplements come in mg doses. Thorne, VRP, Relentless Improvement, etc all come in 15mg pills. The clinical trials in Japan all used 45mg doses daily, so I suspect the vendors selling K2 (MK-4) are trying to match that data. I don't know what dose of MK-7 corresponds to a given dose of K1 or K2 (MK-4).
     
  11. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,073
    Aren't the effects of thinning the blood from aspirin different from the K2 pathways?
     
  12. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,885
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Econ Student
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I simply purchased the NOW brand from the health food shop in my town. I thought taking 2 of the pills would be more than enough, but turns out that was a mere 200mcg and could be contributing to my depersonalization and stomach ache symptoms which are likely thin blood and ulcers.... oh dear ://
     
  13. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,885
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Econ Student
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Similar pathway I suppose, k2 catalyzes blood serum coagulation and calcium metabolism so it has somewhat of a counter effect.
     
  14. Peata

    Peata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Female
    Note:

    NVUGIB = Nonvariceal Upper Gastrointestinal Bleeding
     
  15. Peata

    Peata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Female
    from: The Red Sox (USDA) Diet, Lymphoma, and Vascular Malformations - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet

    In infants, vitamin K deficiency produces vascular malformations. [13]

    Vitamin K deficiency is also known to produce hemorrhage. In fact, a leading cause of hemorrhagic stroke is vitamin K deficiency:

    • In one study of the causes of hemorrhagic stroke, 20 of 24 victims had vascular malformations, and 5 cases had clinical vitamin K deficiency [14]. (All 24 were probably subclinically vitamin K deficient.)
    • A Chinese study of hemorrhagic strokes in children concluded, “Vitamin K deficiency was a major etiology in 72 of 94 hemorrhagic strokes (76.6%).” [15]
    What about the calcification observed in many vascular malformations? Vascular calcification is the universal signal of vitamin K2 deficiency. Interestingly, vitamin K2 deficiency specifically leads to damage to the elastin matrix:

    [M]ineralization induced by warfarin was observed limited to elastic fibers … In a recent paper, dermal elastic fiber calcification has been extensively described in patients affected by coagulation disorders due to a genetic defect in vitamin K recycling … [16]

    Warfarin is a drug that interferes with vitamin K2. It seems clear that a loss of K2 function, due to deficiency, genetic defects, or warfarin, leads to specific damage to the elastin matrix.
     
  16. JackHanma

    JackHanma Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    312
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Very nice find.
     
  17. JackHanma

    JackHanma Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2016
    Messages:
    312
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    I was researching this further.

    Snce vitamin e is a vitamin k antagonist, that you should have some caution with aspirin if you take vitamin e, as it will deplete your vitamin k and thus thin your blood.

    I spent a fair bit of time today researching salicylates, which many plants naturally have and is a component of aspirin. They are involved in thinning the blood.

    http://www.pkdiet.com/pdf/oxalate lists.pdf
    Salicylate Foods – sensitivity, intolerances and food list. | ATP Science

    Thus from what I gather consuming foods rich in them, such as coconut oil, ginger, cayene, cherries, cranberries, dates, etc. Would equate taking aspirins, at least in the thinning blood effect.

    If your blood is too thin from these it's equal to taking many anti-coagulants, which would increase the risk of bleeding, because your body has interference with its ability to clot.


    Therefore for the standard person aspirin would be beneficial (since most people don't tend to have excessive blood thinning foods), but if youare consuming high amounts of salicylates via foods, vitamin e and not enough vitamin k, it would cause harm.

    It was difficult to verify coconut oil, but everywhere i looked touted it was one of the highest salicylate containing foods. One comment on an article stated that deodorized coconut oil had minimal amounts, but I couldn't verify the data either way.
     
  18. Brothers keeper

    Brothers keeper Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Gender:
    Female
    I have a neuropathy that involves conduction block in motor muscles(MMN). I'm guessing, since, even though they don't have any idea yet what causes it, yet is billed autoimmune, that the aspirin could greatly reduce any associated swelling?
     
  19. Brothers keeper

    Brothers keeper Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Gender:
    Female
    Ok. I read those two articles and now I'm confused. In this thread we're being encouraged to use aspirin, with k for inflammation, among other things. The second article said salicylates are in most plants. (Maybe this is why high vegetable consumption helps people overcome terrible neurological diseases, s.a. the Wahl's Protocol and MS), but the article talks also about sensitivity and resultant inflammation to salicylates....so confusing. Please help!
     
  20. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,559
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Higher doses niacinamide can also dramatically lower inflammation and don't seem to have the same side effects as aspirin. I would still use aspirin myself if I had to, but niacinamide and vitamin K2, as well as vitamin D and cascara can probably achieve the same with less side effects.
    Just my 2c.
     
Loading...