Aspirin, Coconut Oil Causing Gynecomastia

[Peatfan19]

I have experienced vast improvements in my general health and well-being by adopting the main Peat principles over the past several months. I however need advice in understanding a puzzling and frustrating reaction in the form of painful gynecomastia to aspirin, and to a lesser extent to coconut oil, both of which are, ironically, in my understanding powerful anti-estrogens.

I have systematically eliminated all dietary and other lifestyle changes (foods, supplements, exercise etc) until I confirmed that the reaction is caused by the use of aspirin, and to a lesser extent coconut oil. Using 500mg aspirin daily leads to painful gynecomastia within 24 hours, while a daily teaspoon of coconut oil has a similar, although less severe effect. Frustratingly, I do experience an improvement in mood and well-being from using aspirin (as well as coconut oil), aside from the single negative side-effect.

I am a 48-year old male with a history of (brief) anabolic steroid use in my teens (tablets, no injections), resulting in gynecomastia which was resolved by surgery, as well as nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), which was reversed (confirmed by liver function test and liver scan), mainly through the use of milk thistle and dandelion. The only possible long-term effect of the steroid abuse is elevated levels of bilirubin, which was subsequently classified as Gilbert Syndrome. In the more than 30 years since I have not had any problems with gynecomastia, until I started using aspirin and coconut oil approximately 2 months ago.

Is it possible that the use of the aspirin (or to a lesser extent coconut oil) could affect the ability of the liver to metabolize estrogen, resulting in gynecomastia? (not sure if that is possible), or could it be a more general sign of liver toxicity/impaired liver function caused by aspirin? Any other possible mechanism or dynamic at play here which I may not be aware of?

 

[Aaron]

Interesting. I shrank my gyno without surgery (still couldn't afford it if I wanted it) but I am still sensitive to estrogen. I have not noticed those effects from aspirin or coconut oil. If it were painless I would guess that the enhanced blood flow and increase in body temperature could create flare up "symptoms" like puffier nipples, but not an actual flare up. Curious to hear others' thoughts.

 

[meatbag]

I have experienced vast improvements in my general health and well-being by adopting the main Peat principles over the past several months. I however need advice in understanding a puzzling and frustrating reaction in the form of painful gynecomastia to aspirin, and to a lesser extent to coconut oil, both of which are, ironically, in my understanding powerful anti-estrogens.

I have systematically eliminated all dietary and other lifestyle changes (foods, supplements, exercise etc) until I confirmed that the reaction is caused by the use of aspirin, and to a lesser extent coconut oil. Using 500mg aspirin daily leads to painful gynecomastia within 24 hours, while a daily teaspoon of coconut oil has a similar, although less severe effect. Frustratingly, I do experience an improvement in mood and well-being from using aspirin (as well as coconut oil), aside from the single negative side-effect.

I am a 48-year old male with a history of (brief) anabolic steroid use in my teens (tablets, no injections), resulting in gynecomastia which was resolved by surgery, as well as nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), which was reversed (confirmed by liver function test and liver scan), mainly through the use of milk thistle and dandelion. The only possible long-term effect of the steroid abuse is elevated levels of bilirubin, which was subsequently classified as Gilbert Syndrome. In the more than 30 years since I have not had any problems with gynecomastia, until I started using aspirin and coconut oil approximately 2 months ago.

Is it possible that the use of the aspirin (or to a lesser extent coconut oil) could affect the ability of the liver to metabolize estrogen, resulting in gynecomastia? (not sure if that is possible), or could it be a more general sign of liver toxicity/impaired liver function caused by aspirin? Any other possible mechanism or dynamic at play here which I may not be aware of?

Progesterone can also cause puffy nipples. Can you actually feel the enlarged gland or is the areola just puffed up? Shrinking when exposed to cold water, etc.?

 

[Aaron]

Progesterone can also cause puffy nipples. Can you actually feel the enlarged gland or is the areola just puffed up? Shrinking when exposed to cold water, etc.?

Any kind of puffiness is caused by gland enlargement (could be temporary inflammation, gland can also be soft or hard) and all nipples shrink when exposed to the cold so these are moot questions.

 

[SOMO]

Any kind of puffiness is caused by gland enlargement (could be temporary inflammation, gland can also be soft or hard) and all nipples shrink when exposed to the cold so these are moot questions.

Nipples shrink when exposed to cold, but if you have tissue growth internally, especially if it's new tissue growth, the vasoconstriction/compression of the blood vessels could feel like uncomfortable pressure.

I had this sensation of uncomfortable pressure after splitting my elbow open and getting stitches. Even after the stitches were removed, the tissue inside the wound felt "tight" if I was to get in a cold pool, the ocean or even a cold shower. So a change in temperature can definitely change sensation locally, perhaps bringing attention to inflammation in the area.

 

[meatbag]

Any kind of puffiness is caused by gland enlargement (could be temporary inflammation, gland can also be soft or hard) and all nipples shrink when exposed to the cold so these are moot questions.

I'm not sure about that, I've seen many people with puffed areola that don't shrink despite cold water. Also I've noticed in women's breasts that some have similar puffiness that is just like air under the areola. I think in true gynecomastia there needs to be solid fatty tissue around the areola and lower than that. The puffiness was especially apparent in a person using progestin medication and I've had freinds who didn't have high prolactin values with puffy nipples and I've seen blood work with much higher prolactins and no puffiness whatsoever so I'm not sure we can conclude its estrogen that is causitive of puffy nipples but I think estrogen does cause the harder fatty deposition in the breast that we could call true gynecomastia.

Yeah in the people with what I've described as 'true' gynecomastia the nipple was either puffy or not puffy and its appearance didn't change in cold water and there was visible hard glandular tissue.

 

[Aaron]

I'm not sure about that, I've seen many people with puffed areola that don't shrink despite cold water. Also I've noticed in women's breasts that some have similar puffiness that is just like air under the areola. I think in true gynecomastia there needs to be solid fatty tissue around the areola and lower than that. The puffiness was especially apparent in a person using progestin medication and I've had freinds who didn't have high prolactin values with puffy nipples and I've seen blood work with much higher prolactins and no puffiness whatsoever so I'm not sure we can conclude its estrogen that is causitive of puffy nipples but I think estrogen does cause the harder fatty deposition in the breast that we could call true gynecomastia.

Yeah in the people with what I've described as 'true' gynecomastia the nipple was either puffy or not puffy and its appearance didn't change in cold water and there was visible hard glandular tissue.

I had gyno and I did hundreds of hours of research to get rid of it. Every case of true gyno looks significantly better when the nipples are exposed to cold, causing the small muscle under the nipple to contract and pull everything in. Everyone has that muscle and it responds to cold in everyone to varying degrees depending on a host of factors that do not include whether you have real gyno or not. Higher circulating estrogen will limit that response by increasing heat and circulation to the area, in the same way estrogen actively increases the size of the gland.

Also, true gyno masses can be as small as a pea and as large as an orange. They can also be flat or very convex, perfectly round or shaped like a piece of chewed gun. It can extend laterally from the nipple to the belly of the pectoral, and the tissue can branch out in various directions or it can be limited to a small area. It can be hard, fibrous and rubbery, or soft and fluffy (especially while estrogen is high). A hard lump can become soft, and most soft lumps will become hard. Pretty much every case of fatty gyno also has some fibrous gland tissue to go with it even if it's not a lump, which makes it true gyno in the sense that you need surgery or something like tamoxifen, in addition to weight loss, to get a normal looking chest again.

Not sure exactly what hormones cause the various kinds of "true gyno," but reducing prolactin and estrogen will almost always help.

 

[meatbag]

I had gyno and I did hundreds of hours of research to get rid of it. Every case of true gyno looks significantly better when the nipples are exposed to cold, causing the small muscle under the nipple to contract and pull everything in. Everyone has that muscle and it responds to cold in everyone. Higher circulating estrogen will limit that response by increasing heat and circulation to the area, in the same way estrogen actively increases the size of the gland.

Also, true gyno masses can be as small as a pea and as large as an orange. They can also be flat or very convex, perfectly round or shaped like a piece of chewed gun. It can extend laterally from the nipple to the belly of the pectoral, and the tissue can branch out in various directions or it can be limited to a small area. Pretty much every case of fatty gyno has some fibrous gland tissue to go with it. It can be hard, fibrous and rubbery, or soft and fluffy (especially while estrogen is high). A hard lump can become soft, and most soft lumps will become hard.

Not sure exactly what hormones cause the various kinds of "true gyno," but reducing prolactin and estrogen will almost always help.

I agree with what you're saying about how different gyno can look between individuals but I still think there is a case where the nipples themselves are puffy and it isn't gynecomastia and that this puffiness of the nipple is caused by progesterone and that yes its size can fluctuate with temperature. In both my friend and I's cases the doctors confirmed they couldn't feel any abnormal tissue and that the puffiness was just teenage hormones. Both of us were fairly lean body fats and muscular and besides the puffy nipples exhibited high dht characteristics. I think @haidut thinks the same who has talked to a lot of people about the issue;

"I meant only puffy when I wrote about that post. My point was that it can be caused by a number of things as I have seen puffy nipples disappear when using androsterone or DHT and then other cases where estrogen is really low but progesterone is high and then androsterone/DHT does not help as much. Btw, the puffy nipples from progesterone in your example could be just as well due to rpogesterone itself. No need for colloid release. Again, I have seen and heard complaints from women whose estrogen is low and progesterone is high and it also gives them puffy nipples."

"The puffy nipples are not only a symptom of high estrogen. If it is only the puffy nipples then it could be a number of things involved. High progesterone can also cause puffy nipples, just ask a pregnant woman. Low salt in your diet can also cause puffy nipples. High ration of T/DHT can also cause puffy nipples. Ask any bodybuilder about that. Finally, high cortisol can also cause puffy nipples even though admittedly if cortisol is high then estrogen will also be elevated. However, if cortisol is normal but the cortisol/DHEA ratio is high then that can also cause puffy nipples. Unless your prolactin and/or estrone (sulfate) are high on several consecutive tests I don't think you can safely conclude you have high estrogen."
-Puffy Nipples

I'm just trying to make the case because a lot of men and teenagers might become worried that their estrogen and prolactin are turned up to 11 when the puffy nipples are caused by something mush more benign and they don't need to worry so much. I know firsthand that what other people have to say about a persons case can be brutal and hurtful

 

[Aaron]

I agree with what you're saying about how different gyno can look between individuals but I still think there is a case where the nipples themselves are puffy and it isn't gynecomastia and that this puffiness of the nipple is caused by progesterone and that yes its size can fluctuate with temperature. In both my friend and I's cases the doctors confirmed they couldn't feel any abnormal tissue and that the puffiness was just teenage hormones. Both of us were fairly lean body fats and muscular and besides the puffy nipples exhibited high dht characteristics. I think @haidut thinks the same who has talked to a lot of people about the issue;

"I meant only puffy when I wrote about that post. My point was that it can be caused by a number of things as I have seen puffy nipples disappear when using androsterone or DHT and then other cases where estrogen is really low but progesterone is high and then androsterone/DHT does not help as much. Btw, the puffy nipples from progesterone in your example could be just as well due to rpogesterone itself. No need for colloid release. Again, I have seen and heard complaints from women whose estrogen is low and progesterone is high and it also gives them puffy nipples."

"The puffy nipples are not only a symptom of high estrogen. If it is only the puffy nipples then it could be a number of things involved. High progesterone can also cause puffy nipples, just ask a pregnant woman. Low salt in your diet can also cause puffy nipples. High ration of T/DHT can also cause puffy nipples. Ask any bodybuilder about that. Finally, high cortisol can also cause puffy nipples even though admittedly if cortisol is high then estrogen will also be elevated. However, if cortisol is normal but the cortisol/DHEA ratio is high then that can also cause puffy nipples. Unless your prolactin and/or estrone (sulfate) are high on several consecutive tests I don't think you can safely conclude you have high estrogen."
-Puffy Nipples

I'm just trying to make the case because a lot of men and teenagers might become worried that their estrogen and prolactin are turned up to 11 when the puffy nipples are caused by something mush more benign and they don't need to worry so much. I know firsthand that what other people have to say about a persons case can be brutal and hurtful

I had slightly puffy nipples as in unnoticeably puffy with no lump underneath for years, which then developed into full blown gyno when I was 22 during a stressful time in my life after taking finasteride. I feel even slight puffy nipples can be a warning sign about the early stages of gynecomastia. In my case, a blood test revealed my total E was 139, so it was estrogen all along. However, you are right that progesterone-induced puffy nipples are a different animal. I think people who have reported success using turmeric for puffy nipples likely had a progesterone problem, which explains why turmeric's progesterone-binding effects would help.

Which reminds me: I recommend turmeric. It will not get rid of lumps on its own but it will reduce the puffiness whether or not your problem is progesterone.

 

[tca300]

Both increase metabolism, and therefore carbohydrate needs. Not meeting the extra carbohydrate needs will elevate stress hormones e.g estrogen.

 

[Peatfan19]

Progesterone can also cause puffy nipples. Can you actually feel the enlarged gland or is the areola just puffed up? Shrinking when exposed to cold water, etc.?

The gland is enlarged, with very sensitive nipples. It is a very unpleasant and uncomfortable sensation.

 

[Peatfan19]

Both increase metabolism, and therefore carbohydrate needs. Not meeting the extra carbohydrate needs will elevate stress hormones e.g estrogen.

The symptoms were at it's worst during a recent bout of flu, when I took up to 1500mg of aspirin a day for the fever, and only had a bowl or two of soup during the day. This indeed seems to point to a carbohydrate deficiency and resultant elevated stress hormones/estrogen as the cause.

 

[michael94]

I had slightly puffy nipples as in unnoticeably puffy with no lump underneath for years, which then developed into full blown gyno when I was 22 during a stressful time in my life after taking finasteride. I feel even slight puffy nipples can be a warning sign about the early stages of gynecomastia. In my case, a blood test revealed my total E was 139, so it was estrogen all along. However, you are right that progesterone-induced puffy nipples are a different animal. I think people who have reported success using turmeric for puffy nipples likely had a progesterone problem, which explains why turmeric's progesterone-binding effects would help.

Which reminds me: I recommend turmeric. It will not get rid of lumps on its own but it will reduce the puffiness whether or not your problem is progesterone.

tumeric binds progesterone?
very interesting...

 

[Aaron]

tumeric binds progesterone?
very interesting...

Sorry, I should have said it binds to the progesterone receptor, much like flax does to the estrogen receptor (and similarly it has ambiguous agonistic/antagonistic effects). It does not have a big impact on circulating progesterone and it has more of a reduction in prolactin.

 

[EndAllDisease]

Hard to imagine such a stable fat, which shuts off estrogen and stress could result in gynecomastia.

 

[meatbag]

The gland is enlarged, with very sensitive nipples. It is a very unpleasant and uncomfortable sensation.

Here's what I would recommend; get a prolactin blood test and either keep up with the diet your doing or change it and then retest prolactin in a few months to see if it changed. Prolactin corresponds to tissue levels of estrogens*
*Tissue-bound estrogen in aging
*Blocking Tissue Destruction
*Growth hormone: Hormone of Stress, Aging, and Death?

"Prolactin (which is promoted by estrogen, and inhibited by progesterone) increases with stress and with age. It probably affects every tissue, but it seems to have its greatest efects on the secretory membranes. It is known to have strong effects on the kidney, gut and skin (sweat and oil glands, hair follicles, and feathers inbirds), and on the gills of fish. Its involvement with milk production suggests that it might mobilize calcium from bones, and inf fact it does contribute to osteoporosis. This was foreseen by G. Bourne, in his book on the metabolism of hard tissues, when he suggested that estrogen, acting through the pituitary, might be expected to promote osteoporosis...Now that several publications have appeared clearly showing that estrogen increases prolactin, that prolactin increases with cancellous bone; adrenal androgens."

"Although we commonly think of the ovaries as the main source of estrogen, the enzyme which makes it can be found in all parts of the body. Surprisingly, in rhesus monkeys, aromatase in the arms accounts for a very large part of estrogen production. Fat and the skin are major sources of estrogen, especially in older people. The activity of aromatase increases with aging, and under the influence of prolactin, cortisol, prostaglandin, and the pituitary hormones, FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and growth hormone. It is inhibited by progesterone, thyroid, aspirin, and high altitude. Aromatase can produce estrogen in fat cells, fibroblasts, smooth muscle cells, breast and uterine tissue, pancreas, liver, brain, bone, skin, etc. Its action in breast cancer, endometriosis, uterine cancer, lupus, gynecomastia, and many other diseases is especially important. Aromatase in mammary tissue appears to increase estrogen receptors and cause breast neoplasia, independently of ovarian estrogen (Tekmal, et al., 1999)

"It isn't surprising that the Growth Hormone helps breasts develop and promotes milk production, since it is very similar to prolactin. GH and prolactin are members of a family of proteins that have diverged from each other in evolution, but they still have many overlapping effects....But the normal pattern of secretion is much more complex than simply being "pulsed" or "continuous," since it, like prolactin secretion, is responsive to changes in thyroid, estrogen, diet, stress, and many other factors....Estrogen stimulates both prolactin and growth hormone secretion. Thirty years ago, people were warning that estrogen contraceptives might produce diabetes, because they caused chronic elevation of growth hormone and free fatty acids.
Since estrogen causes a slight tendency to retain water while losing sodium, producing hypotonic body fluids, and since hypotonicity is a sufficient stimulus to cause prolactin secretion, I have proposed that it is estrogen's effect on the body fluids which causes it to stimulate prolactin. In pregnancy, the fetus is exposed to fluids more hypotonic than can be accounted for by estrogen and prolactin alone; since GH lowers the salt concentration of fish when they enter the ocean from freshwater, it seems to be a candidate for this effect in pregnancy."
--------
Also check out these threads;
Prolactin Is A Good Metric For Serotonin And Estrogen Levels

Gynecomastia Associated With Low Androgens, High Cortisol / Estrogen / Prolactin / LH / FSH

>> So if you can manage it you could also test your androgens, cortisol, and LH. PTH (parathyroid hormone) might be insightful too: Feelin' better through biomarkers - SelfTestable

 

[benaoao]

For a brief overview of breast tissue...

Gynecomastia: Etiology, Diagnosis, and Treatment - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

The figures in there are easy enough

 

[Peatfan19]

Here's what I would recommend; get a prolactin blood test and either keep up with the diet your doing or change it and then retest prolactin in a few months to see if it changed. Prolactin corresponds to tissue levels of estrogens*
*Tissue-bound estrogen in aging
*Blocking Tissue Destruction
*Growth hormone: Hormone of Stress, Aging, and Death?

"Prolactin (which is promoted by estrogen, and inhibited by progesterone) increases with stress and with age. It probably affects every tissue, but it seems to have its greatest efects on the secretory membranes. It is known to have strong effects on the kidney, gut and skin (sweat and oil glands, hair follicles, and feathers inbirds), and on the gills of fish. Its involvement with milk production suggests that it might mobilize calcium from bones, and inf fact it does contribute to osteoporosis. This was foreseen by G. Bourne, in his book on the metabolism of hard tissues, when he suggested that estrogen, acting through the pituitary, might be expected to promote osteoporosis...Now that several publications have appeared clearly showing that estrogen increases prolactin, that prolactin increases with cancellous bone; adrenal androgens."

"Although we commonly think of the ovaries as the main source of estrogen, the enzyme which makes it can be found in all parts of the body. Surprisingly, in rhesus monkeys, aromatase in the arms accounts for a very large part of estrogen production. Fat and the skin are major sources of estrogen, especially in older people. The activity of aromatase increases with aging, and under the influence of prolactin, cortisol, prostaglandin, and the pituitary hormones, FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and growth hormone. It is inhibited by progesterone, thyroid, aspirin, and high altitude. Aromatase can produce estrogen in fat cells, fibroblasts, smooth muscle cells, breast and uterine tissue, pancreas, liver, brain, bone, skin, etc. Its action in breast cancer, endometriosis, uterine cancer, lupus, gynecomastia, and many other diseases is especially important. Aromatase in mammary tissue appears to increase estrogen receptors and cause breast neoplasia, independently of ovarian estrogen (Tekmal, et al., 1999)

"It isn't surprising that the Growth Hormone helps breasts develop and promotes milk production, since it is very similar to prolactin. GH and prolactin are members of a family of proteins that have diverged from each other in evolution, but they still have many overlapping effects....But the normal pattern of secretion is much more complex than simply being "pulsed" or "continuous," since it, like prolactin secretion, is responsive to changes in thyroid, estrogen, diet, stress, and many other factors....Estrogen stimulates both prolactin and growth hormone secretion. Thirty years ago, people were warning that estrogen contraceptives might produce diabetes, because they caused chronic elevation of growth hormone and free fatty acids.
Since estrogen causes a slight tendency to retain water while losing sodium, producing hypotonic body fluids, and since hypotonicity is a sufficient stimulus to cause prolactin secretion, I have proposed that it is estrogen's effect on the body fluids which causes it to stimulate prolactin. In pregnancy, the fetus is exposed to fluids more hypotonic than can be accounted for by estrogen and prolactin alone; since GH lowers the salt concentration of fish when they enter the ocean from freshwater, it seems to be a candidate for this effect in pregnancy."
--------
Also check out these threads;
Prolactin Is A Good Metric For Serotonin And Estrogen Levels

Gynecomastia Associated With Low Androgens, High Cortisol / Estrogen / Prolactin / LH / FSH

>> So if you can manage it you could also test your androgens, cortisol, and LH. PTH (parathyroid hormone) might be insightful too: Feelin' better through biomarkers - SelfTestable

Thanks for the helpful recommendation and info, I'll have a prolactin blood test done and take it from there. I think elevated levels of stress-induced prolactin and cortisol, due to a caloric deficit resulting from the increased metabolism induced by the aspirin and coconut oil (as helpfully pointed out by tca300), is likely the main reason.

 

[Satellite]

I have experienced vast improvements in my general health and well-being by adopting the main Peat principles over the past several months. I however need advice in understanding a puzzling and frustrating reaction in the form of painful gynecomastia to aspirin, and to a lesser extent to coconut oil, both of which are, ironically, in my understanding powerful anti-estrogens.

I have systematically eliminated all dietary and other lifestyle changes (foods, supplements, exercise etc) until I confirmed that the reaction is caused by the use of aspirin, and to a lesser extent coconut oil. Using 500mg aspirin daily leads to painful gynecomastia within 24 hours, while a daily teaspoon of coconut oil has a similar, although less severe effect. Frustratingly, I do experience an improvement in mood and well-being from using aspirin (as well as coconut oil), aside from the single negative side-effect.

I am a 48-year old male with a history of (brief) anabolic steroid use in my teens (tablets, no injections), resulting in gynecomastia which was resolved by surgery, as well as nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), which was reversed (confirmed by liver function test and liver scan), mainly through the use of milk thistle and dandelion. The only possible long-term effect of the steroid abuse is elevated levels of bilirubin, which was subsequently classified as Gilbert Syndrome. In the more than 30 years since I have not had any problems with gynecomastia, until I started using aspirin and coconut oil approximately 2 months ago.

Is it possible that the use of the aspirin (or to a lesser extent coconut oil) could affect the ability of the liver to metabolize estrogen, resulting in gynecomastia? (not sure if that is possible), or could it be a more general sign of liver toxicity/impaired liver function caused by aspirin? Any other possible mechanism or dynamic at play here which I may not be aware of?

@Peatfan19

There were some good posts here.
I too have noticed that keeping a proper ratio between all hormones is a must.

However, check your insulin sensitivity and sugar oxidation.

For me, the best reduction in gyno came when I controlled my insulin sensitivity and sugar oxidation better, in addition to keeping E and cort regulated.

When I added that in, it still worked even though my stress levels were probably high as I workout too frequently and use strong preworkouts to boot.

 

[postman]

For me dairy was the problem. I guess coconut oil could maybe be a problem because the laruic acid hibits 5a-r.