Aspirin As A Cure For Sepsis

[yerrag]

From Texon's referenced article :

It’s well-known to prevent scurvy and help with heart function. But Marik, who is chief of the pulmonary and critical care medicine unit at Eastern Virginia Medical School, had been reading research papers that also showed some success treating sepsis patients with intravenous vitamin C—along with a steroid to reduce inflammation and thiamine to help with absorption.

How is it that cortisone and Vitamin C is more effective than Vitamin C alone? Is it because cortisone enabled the conversion of fat to glucose?

How is thiamine helping? Is it because thiamine converts lactic acid back to glucose?

 

[Elderflower j58]

 

[Texon]

From Texon's referenced article :

It’s well-known to prevent scurvy and help with heart function. But Marik, who is chief of the pulmonary and critical care medicine unit at Eastern Virginia Medical School, had been reading research papers that also showed some success treating sepsis patients with intravenous vitamin C—along with a steroid to reduce inflammation and thiamine to help with absorption.

How is it that cortisone and Vitamin C is more effective than Vitamin C alone? Is it because cortisone enabled the conversion of fat to glucose?

How is thiamine helping? Is it because thiamine converts lactic acid back to glucose?

@Elderflower j58 @haidut @lisaferraro
I think the mechanism is still unknown. The team tried these items separately and in different pairs, but nothing worked until all three were administered together. Also, it's amazing that such a low dose of vitamin c was effective, and not just effective but astonishingly effective, based on the cure rate. Here's another example of the effectiveness of vitamin c given alone but in much higher IV doses.

 

[haidut]

@Elderflower j58 @haidut @lisaferraro
I think the mechanism is still unknown. The team tried these items separately and in different pairs, but nothing worked until all three were administered together. Also, it's amazing that such a low dose of vitamin c was effective, and not just effective but astonishingly effective, based on the cure rate. Here's another example of the effectiveness of vitamin c given alone but in much higher IV doses.

I wonder if pregnenolone/progesterone can replace the cortisone in that combo treatment. The cortisone weakens the immune system so I don't think it's wise to use in cases of infections. Its benefit is probably the anti-inflammatory effects and there are other chemicals that can have the same effects without immunosuppression.

 

[lollipop]

I wonder if pregnenolone/progesterone can replace the cortisone in that combo treatment. The cortisone weakens the immune system so I don't think it's wise to use in cases of infections. Its benefit is probably the anti-inflammatory effects and there are other chemicals that can have the same effects without immunosuppression.

+1 this makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Blossom]

I'm sure they use cortisone because it's so common place in medicine. Progesterone and/or pregnenolone would probably be a better choice I just don't think either one is even on the radar as an option in most hospitals unfortunately. Some vitamins are more likely to be utilized because of prior success in treating wounds, deficiency etc.

A person's length of stay in the hospital (in the US) is largely dictated by insurance reimbursement so the goal is to treat and discharge ASAP. Something like cortisone has a long history of use, acts quickly and reliably and fits in well with the time constraints hospitals are working under. The side effects of cortisone while in my opinion are horrible are typically not enough to interfere with the process of stabilizing a person for discharge. People are usually not truly well when they leave just no longer critically ill. Much of the healing is actually just starting upon discharge.

People don't get well on a nice linear timeline like insurance companies demand. This is one area where I actually feel bad for doctors and hospitals. (Although the executives still get their nice bonuses regardless!) It's such a disservice to patients when insurance companies force their unrealistic timelines and simply stop paying if a person isn't well when they think they should be. I'm sure that's why many less than optimal treatments continue to be utilized rather than safer gentler ones. It's simply that there is no time to do things a better way.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I've had great success taking aspirin dissolved in hot water with ascorbic acid, baking soda, niacinamide and collagen.

It is fun to see it foam up of course, but the additions of ascorbic acid, along with niacinamide, really seems to help prevent ANY stomach upset from aspirin.

 

[Texon]

I wonder if pregnenolone/progesterone can replace the cortisone in that combo treatment. The cortisone weakens the immune system so I don't think it's wise to use in cases of infections. Its benefit is probably the anti-inflammatory effects and there are other chemicals that can have the same effects without immunosuppression.

Maybe the dose is so low it didn't suppress too much? Or the length of time used was less than what would provoke things. Or, (just rambling a bit), could the septic condition be partly a case of an extreme immune overreaction, that needs a bit of suppression? It would be great if the othe items you mention could work though. It was disappointing that the researchers at Cornell (?) could not get their work with high doses of progesterone to work miracles on TBI.

 

[yerrag]

I wonder if pregnenolone/progesterone can replace the cortisone in that combo treatment. The cortisone weakens the immune system so I don't think it's wise to use in cases of infections. Its benefit is probably the anti-inflammatory effects and there are other chemicals that can have the same effects without immunosuppression.

Is there a reason for not just using progesterone? I felt that the metabolism boosting effect of progesterone increases the input requirements of oxygen and sugar, and if the body cannot obtain these to keep up due to bottlenecks (eg poor tissue oxygenation due low serum CO2, or poor oxygen transport in the blood due to mercury toxicity) this could further stress the patient.

I wonder if that is the reason you were thinking of using a pregnenolone/progesterone combo, that somehow pregnenolone would modulate the energy boosting effects of progesterone.

 

[haidut]

Is there a reason for not just using progesterone? I felt that the metabolism boosting effect of progesterone increases the input requirements of oxygen and sugar, and if the body cannot obtain these to keep up due to bottlenecks (eg poor tissue oxygenation due low serum CO2, or poor oxygen transport in the blood due to mercury toxicity) this could further stress the patient.

I wonder if that is the reason you were thinking of using a pregnenolone/progesterone combo, that somehow pregnenolone would modulate the energy boosting effects of progesterone.

Pregnenolone has its own antiinflamamtory effects separate from progesterone.
Pregnenolone (and DHEA) May Protect From Heart Disease
Also, pregnenolone was considered a "slow-acting", "systemic" and "safe" glucocorticoid replacement back in the 1940s when the studies with it were done. Progesterone can do pretty much anything cortisol can without the destruction of immune system. Progesterone is just as fast acting as cortisol so there is no excuse not to try it, alone or with pregnenolone.

 

[Texon]

This says everything anyone needs to know

 

[Texon]

Pregnenolone has its own antiinflamamtory effects separate from progesterone.
Pregnenolone (and DHEA) May Protect From Heart Disease
Also, pregnenolone was considered a "slow-acting", "systemic" and "safe" glucocorticoid replacement back in the 1940s when the studies with it were done. Progesterone can do pretty much anything cortisol can without the destruction of immune system. Progesterone is just as fast acting as cortisol so there is no excuse not to try it, alone or with pregnenolone.

In the video above @49:00, Dr. Marik explains that some clinicians have tried to tweak the steroid piece and it didn't work. It appears to be that the dexamethasone paired with vitamin c are synergistic with each other. That part is covered somewhere early in the video.

 

[haidut]

In the video above @49:00, Dr. Marik explains that some clinicians have tried to tweak the steroid piece and it didn't work. It appears to be that the dexamethasone paired with vitamin c are synergistic with each other. That part is covered somewhere early in the video.

I will watch it, but have talked to doctors working on similar protocols and the "tweaking" always involves simply substituting another glucocorticoid or bioidentical hydrocortisone (cortisol). To my knowledge, nobody has tried using pregnenolone/progesterone in this protocol yet.

 

[Mauritio]

This study shows a significant increase in survival time of people who take aspirin before hospitalization.

Surprisingly it's just 1.3 days on average.

Association Between Aspirin Use and Sepsis Outcomes: A National Cohort Study - PubMed

Aspirin therapy before hospital admission is associated with a reduced 90-day mortality in sepsis patients.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“In multiple organ failure, which can be caused by profound shock caused by trauma, infection, or other stress, aspirin is often helpful, but carbon dioxide and hypertonic glucose and sodium are more important.” -Ray Peat

Aspirin, brain, and cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com