Aspirin Actually Lowers Risk Of Bleeding In The Brain

haidut

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This should study should be a required reading for all doctors who mindlessly parrot about aspirin and bleeding risks. In fact, the purported brain bleeding has been used the main reason for not recommending preventive aspirin usage for all age groups at risk for degenerative conditions. Btw, I already posted a study showing aspirin use decreased GI bleeding risks and its associated mortality.
According to this study, aspirin use may actually treat brain aneurisms and if anything, it decreases the risk of brain bleeding associated with those aneurisms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25967073

"...Key Messages: Aspirin has been found to be a safe in patients harboring cerebral aneurysms and clinical studies provide evidence that it may decrease the overall rate of rupture. Furthermore, aspirin is an accessible and inexpensive medicine for patients who may not have access to endovascular or microsurgical treatment or for patients who are deemed low risk of aneurysm rupture, high risk for intervention, or both. Future clinical trials are indicated to determine the overall effect of aspirin on aneurysm progression and rupture. This review provides an update on the potential mechanisms and benefits of aspirin in the treatment of cerebral aneurysms."
 

Peata

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This floors me. This was one of the reasons I was hesitant to take aspirin regularly, and some of my family as well. It might have made a big difference for one family member if they hadn't been scared off by their doctor about taking it.
 

jyb

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Hum, but without doubt aspirin can make people nose bleed (unless one is carefully supplementing K2). This has happened to me very consistently with aspirin (when I didn't do a good K2 supplementation). And it takes more time for coagulation around a cut. So why wouldn't it happen elsewhere internally in the body? It's pretty well understood that aspirin depletes the body's K2, so from where you can imagine...
 
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haidut

haidut

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jyb said:
Hum, but without doubt aspirin can make people nose bleed (unless one is carefully supplementing K2). This has happened to me very consistently with aspirin (when I didn't do a good K2 supplementation). And it takes more time for coagulation around a cut. So why wouldn't it happen elsewhere internally in the body? It's pretty well understood that aspirin depletes the body's K2, so from where you can imagine...

I hear you, and do agree that it sound for logical for aspirin to increase bleeding event. However, the two human studies I posted found the exact opposite in cases of GI and brain bleeding - the two main reasons cited by doctors for not recommending aspirin. Maybe bleeding would be related to weakened vessel walls, which is usually caused by estrogen, and probably blocked by aspirin. So, the nose bleeds you have may disappear eventually as aspirin does its magic on the vessel.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Peata said:
This floors me. This was one of the reasons I was hesitant to take aspirin regularly, and some of my family as well. It might have made a big difference for one family member if they hadn't been scared off by their doctor about taking it.

And here is the other thread to floor you even more:):
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6158
 

jyb

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haidut said:
I hear you, and do agree that it sound for logical for aspirin to increase bleeding event. However, the two human studies I posted found the exact opposite in cases of GI and brain bleeding - the two main reasons cited by doctors for not recommending aspirin. Maybe bleeding would be related to weakened vessel walls, which is usually caused by estrogen, and probably blocked by aspirin. So, the nose bleeds you have may disappear eventually as aspirin does its magic on the vessel.

The bleeding in my case with aspirin seemed very clearly related to its K2 depleting effect. Supplement enough K2 would stop it within the same day, it's very striking.

And this reminds me of a study you posted on aspirin not good before physical exercise. I wouldn't be surprised if it were related to that, since it seems so easy to bleed if you didn't supplement K2.
 

jyb

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However, for short term low dose, or if K2 is supplemented, then the effect on blood could be good as Peat wrote about. I just commented because its not crazy to think it *could* make you bleed in many cases.
 

mas

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Thank you Haidut for all of the scientific data that you compile because this data gives scientific credibility and a valuable reference source to this forum.

For a while, the use of low dose aspirin was advocated by some doctors , but unfortunately, now media spin is heading off into the aspirin “danger” arena again.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 1363436686

Unfortunately, the public will be duped again because of the fake media bits. Like Ray said, any study can be set up to provide any conclusion that they want and people see a distorted article about aspirin being dangerous instead of reading the real science as Haidut has presented.

I wonder if using aspirin for one week and stopping and cycling like this would work. I guess it just comes down to each person’s experience. I want to take enough for healing purposes but not too much and I just keep on adjusting as to my own observations.

I think that the bleeding/clotting systems are complex and many factors such as estrogen, serotonin, fibrin, etc…are involved and many people have bleeding events without aspirin.

____________________________________

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/bleeding-clotting-cancer.shtml

When fibrin is destroyed faster than it can be replaced, blood vessels become too permeable, and bleeding can occur more easily.
 

sladerunner69

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Thank you Haidut for all of the scientific data that you compile because this data gives scientific credibility and a valuable reference source to this forum.

For a while, the use of low dose aspirin was advocated by some doctors , but unfortunately, now media spin is heading off into the aspirin “danger” arena again.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 1363436686

Unfortunately, the public will be duped again because of the fake media bits. Like Ray said, any study can be set up to provide any conclusion that they want and people see a distorted article about aspirin being dangerous instead of reading the real science as Haidut has presented.

I wonder if using aspirin for one week and stopping and cycling like this would work. I guess it just comes down to each person’s experience. I want to take enough for healing purposes but not too much and I just keep on adjusting as to my own observations.

I think that the bleeding/clotting systems are complex and many factors such as estrogen, serotonin, fibrin, etc…are involved and many people have bleeding events without aspirin.

____________________________________

Bleeding, clotting, cancer

When fibrin is destroyed faster than it can be replaced, blood vessels become too permeable, and bleeding can occur more easily.


I definitely experienced bleeding/stomach upsets when first utilizing aspirin at about 500mg each day. My system gradually adapted along with vit k supplementaion. I personally can understand the hesitation to slow down on aspirin intake, it doesnt seem to be as straight foward a solution as many make it seem and will require careful, gradual optimization.
 

David Chung

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This is interesting, because, to me, the study suggests to me that a drug can have different effects depending on the condition of the body.

Since aspirin thins blood, when taken, there would be less chance of occlusion. This explains why the capillaries in the brain are less likely to burst with aspirin use.

In contrast, the type of aspirin-related GI bleeding that people refer to is caused by COX inhibition. Due to the inhibition, stomach lining fails to produce proper mucous. I know that the body fights NSAID effects, and so it would not be surprising if the GI's some users acclimated to aspirin use. In fact, it is possible that the adaptation may lead to LESS bleeding over time (compared tothose not taking aspirin).
 
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jb116

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This is interesting, because, to me, the study suggests to me that a drug can have different effects depending on the condition of the body.

Since aspirin thins blood, when taken, there would be less chance of occlusion. This explains why the capillaries in the brain are less likely to burst with aspirin use.

In contrast, the type of aspirin-related GI bleeding that people refer to is caused by COX inhibition. Due to the inhibition, stomach lining fails to produce proper mucous. I know that the body fights NSAID effects, and so it would not be surprising if the GI's some users acclimated to aspirin use. In fact, it is possible that the adaptation may lead to LESS bleeding over time (compared tothose not taking aspirin).

This wasn't clear to me, what were you trying to say here? "... so it would not be surprising if the GI's some users acclimated to aspirin use"

Also, regarding COX, specifically COX-1 which is responsible for mucous lining, I've always found this to be a conundrum for those who have GI issues if considering aspirin.
So what is the solution there?
 

Peata

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The bleeding in my case with aspirin seemed very clearly related to its K2 depleting effect. Supplement enough K2 would stop it within the same day, it's very striking.

And this reminds me of a study you posted on aspirin not good before physical exercise. I wouldn't be surprised if it were related to that, since it seems so easy to bleed if you didn't supplement K2.
Just wondering if you still take aspirin and K2. How much aspirin do you take?

I used to take it without K2, but wasn't consistently taking large amounts daily, more like small amount regularly with occasional large dose use (mostly for pain). Never had bleeding issues with it. Over the last month or two, I've increased aspirin to where I take it most days, at least 325 mg, often 4 - 7 aspirin (usually just days I work as I'm prone to headaches on job, plus I think the aspirin helps with water retention, cortisol, and thinking). Been using 5 mg. K2. I wonder if it's too much K2 because cuts stop bleeding fast and heal up. Not sure if it's "too fast" for the amount of aspirin I'm taking. Guess it goes to show that 5 mg K2 is enough for more than 5 aspirin (for me).
 

No_Energy

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I wish I could use aspirin without having to worry. but, Bleeding is a concern. Bleeding in the brain, stomach. I wish I could take that as conclusive truth and not have to worry about that anymore, but, if you look at the larger set of data, there are also studies with the opposite conclusion. So without looking at the larger set of data, and the studies that have the opposite conclusion, look at the quality of the studies, analise and compare both sets of evidence ( I dont know how much of the contrarian studies @haidut has looked at), it is hard to come to a conclusion , and a claim of certainty.

Perhaps suplemeting an adquate dosage of K alongside would be a solution or hedge against the risk. I think Peat talked about it.

If you look up pubmed aspirin + bleeding there are thousands of results..

Here are two with opposite conclusion:


“Conclusions and relevance: This study found a significant increase in intracranial bleeding with daily low-dose aspirin but no significant reduction of ischemic stroke. These findings may have particular relevance to older individuals prone to developing intracranial bleeding after head trauma.“






“ Conclusion: Among adults without established cardiovascular disease, aspirin was not associated with a reduction in the incidence of all-cause mortality; however, it was associated with an increased incidence of major bleeding. The routine use of aspirin for primary prevention needs to be reconsidered.“
 
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Herbie

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@No_Energy I think I remember Haidut saying in an interview recently with Danny Roddy that he data mined the entire pubmed on aspirin and got some figure that made it very safe. He is in IT and has the skills do to these kinds of things. Hopefully he chimes in and gives more details.
 

No_Energy

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@No_Energy I think I remember Haidut saying in an interview recently with Danny Roddy that he data mined the entire pubmed on aspirin and got some figure that made it very safe. He is in IT and has the skills do to these kinds of things. Hopefully he chimes in and gives more details.

Hey @Herbie,

Thanks for the reply and valuable information. If Haidut in fact did that, and was able to derive a reliable picture out of all the data, that is great. It would be nice to hear from him if that is the case, what kind of algorithm, racional he used to analise the data.

Thanks Herbie.

ps: Btw, do you happen to have a link to that interview?.
 
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Herbie

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@No_Energy I think he found the number of negative finding vs the number of positive and said something like it's the only drug in existence with such low negative findings.

I don't know but it I think it was a recent one with Danny Roddy.
 

No_Energy

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@No_Energy I think he found the number of negative finding vs the number of positive and said something like it's the only drug in existence with such low negative findings.

I don't know but it I think it was a recent one with Danny Roddy.

Hi @Herbie,

Thanks Again, valuable information.

Yea, I guess you can have a straight quantitative analysis done by an algorithm, but it is also important to have a qualitative analysis. Still dont know exactly what @haidut has done, if it was a simple count done by computer, or some other more complex analysis. And for a qualitative analysis I guess you still would have to put the time and work to go through the studies. It would be also important, to organize the quality of the data. one using the randomized controlled trials, and have an analysis on them on their own category. And I think that is the problem, we already have Reviews and Meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials, but some give positive results while others have the opposite result. It would be nice to know if Haidut has or can run, at least, a count on the RCTs set only.

Also, as I remember, we seem to have the same issue with aspirin and testosterone levels, studies with conflicting results.

ps: still havent found the timestamp and interview where he talks about it.
 
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