Aspartame Lowers Serotonin!

[dookie]

Should we start drinking diet soda?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2442082

Effects of repeated doses of aspartame on serotonin and its metabolite in various regions of the mouse brain.

Abstract
Following a finding that single doses (approximating to average intakes and to potential 'over-use') of aspartame administered orally to mice caused significant increases in norepinephrine and dopamine concentrations in various brain regions, the effect of repeated exposure to aspartame was studied. Male CD-1 mice were given a daily oral dose of 0, 13, 133 or 650 mg/kg for 30 days and 1 day after the last dose the animals were decapitated and their brain regions were quickly isolated. Analyses of the different regions for catecholamine and indoleamine neurotransmitters and their major metabolites indicated that the increases in adrenergic chemicals observed shortly after a single exposure were not apparent after repeated dosing. In contrast, concentrations of serotonin and its metabolite, 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid, were decreased in several regions. An increased supply of phenylalanine may be responsible for a decrease in tryptophan uptake by the brain tissue or for a depression in tryptophan conversion to serotonin.

 

[Quality]

Nice find dookie, I used to drink a fair share of diet coke in the past as a teenager (talking 1.5liters or more a day), which is like 20 years ago now.
Might explain some of the outbursts I had with my parents in that period.

 

[tyler]

I had a biology teacher that pounded diet soda all day.
He claimed he read all the studies on aspartame and he found nothing concerningly negative on it.
I never looked into that myself, and always kind of assumed he was probably wrong. But this is cool to see! Maybe he was on to something.

 

[Quality]

Hi Tyler,
Well Im not sure to what degree Aspartame is dangerous these days, I remember digging into info about it years ago, there certainly was a dark negative cloud above it, wether this is still the case today I have no idea tbh.
Seeing the amount of "healthy" products that have artificial sweeteners in it these days, such as low fat yoghurts with strawberry taste and what not, it would be interesting and probably also necesarry for researchers to look deeper into the effects of artificial sweeteners as so many people get it into their system nowadays.

 

[superhuman]

Has anyone asked RP about Aspartame or @haidut what his thought around it?

 

[Regina]

Nice find dookie, I used to drink a fair share of diet coke in the past as a teenager (talking 1.5liters or more a day), which is like 20 years ago now.
Might explain some of the outbursts I had with my parents in that period.

Eww gross. Me too. I'd hang out at Subway grading papers, repeatedly filling my fountain diet coke.

 

[haidut]

Has anyone asked RP about Aspartame or @haidut what his thought around it?

The information you need is in the abstract - i.e. it was the increased phenylalanine due to aspartame that led to reducing tryptophan in the brain and thus increased dopamine synthesis. Aspartame is just a conjugation of aspartic acid and phenyalanine so you can achieve the same effects much more safely buy taking lower dose phenyalanine (no more than 1g per dose) and 2g - 3g of BCAA as I mentioned in my various past posts on reducing serotonin. You definitely don't need the extra aspartic acid in aspartame and by adding BCAA you can make a much lower dose be much more effective. At the highest dose used in that study I think it would mean ingesting 2g - 3g phenylalanine to achieve the serotonin reduction, and phenylalanine on its own is much less effective then when combined with BCAA. Also, as I said in my other posts, make sure to take the BCAA/phenylalanine/tyrosine combo on a fasted state. It depletes serotonin a lot more that way.
Fro the study:
"...Results reported here suggest that repeated exposure to aspartame may produce alterattons m the levels of 5HT and tts metabohte m various brain regions These effects were pronounced m the hypothalamus, the area most important for neuroendocnne control. Statlsttcally stgmficant changes m hypothalamlc 5HIAA occurred at a dose of 130mg/kg/day, a dose a httle over three times the JECFA (1980) ADI for thts food additive Tom et al (1986) have recently reported that the presence of 5% aspartame m various diets fed for only 2 hr to fasted rats caused a slgmficant decrease m whole-brain 5HT levels, when compared to their controls Single dady doses may simulate the use of aspartame more closely than does admmlstratton m the rat diet, smce healthconscious md~wduals may hmtt their food intake and eat only once or twice datly Our use of datly dosmg ts m contrast to prevtous ammal expertments m which aspartame added to animal food was consumed throughout the day and showed no adverse effects (Ishn, 1984)."

 

[dookie]

@haidut

Do you think that a person can achieve serotonin reduction just by consuming diet soda or sugar-free gum or mints? Is the amount that needs to be consumed "realistic" (I mean, you don't need to drink 3 gallons of diet soda to achieve it)?

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Do you think that a person can achieve serotonin reduction just by consuming diet soda or sugar-free gum or mints? Is the amount that needs to be consumed "realistic" (I mean, you don't need to drink 3 gallons of diet soda to achieve it)?

Probably not, the amount used to sweeten the beverages is much lower than the needed amount for effect. This is why I provided the quote above, the minimum dose for effectiveness in mice was 130mg/kg, which was several fold higher than the maximum expected amount a person would typically consume from food/drinks.

 

[dookie]

Nice find dookie, I used to drink a fair share of diet coke in the past as a teenager (talking 1.5liters or more a day), which is like 20 years ago now.
Might explain some of the outbursts I had with my parents in that period.

Are you saying low serotonin leads you to be more confrontational with authority? :)

 

[dookie]

Probably not, the amount used to sweeten the beverages is much lower than the needed amount for effect. This is why I provided the quote above, the minimum dose for effectiveness in mice was 130mg/kg, which was several fold higher than the maximum expected amount a person would typically consume from food/drinks.

But does it also mean that the doses used for sodas/gum/etc are not actually harmful, as claimed by most alternative health people?

 

[haidut]

But does it also mean that the doses used for sodas/gum/etc are not actually harmful, as claimed by most alternative health people?

Not sure about that, like I said aspartame gives you also aspartic acid, which is not good in high doses and Peat writes about that too. This is a reason he is not fond of metal salts like magnesium aspartate and zinc aspartate, etc.

 

[Quality]

To dookie: I cant reply to your private message it wont allow me to, not sure why it keeps loading after i press post reply

 

[papaya]

Not sure about that, like I said aspartame gives you also aspartic acid, which is not good in high doses and Peat writes about that too. This is a reason he is not fond of metal salts like magnesium aspartate and zinc aspartate, etc.

why is aspartic bad? pepsi max has 69mg of csaffeine per 12oz serving. i love diet soda & have prayed for yrs that a study would come out that says it's healthy. is it really that bad? i mean ice cream & diet soda being healthy would be like beyond a dream come true lol.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

why is aspartic bad? pepsi max has 69mg of csaffeine per 12oz serving. i love diet soda & have prayed for yrs that a study would come out that says it's healthy. is it really that bad? i mean ice cream & diet soda being healthy would be like beyond a dream come true lol.

From Dr. Peat's article, Coconut Oil --

"We have to remember that the arguments made for aspartame, monosodium glutamate, aspartic acid, and tryptophan--that they are like the amino acids that make up natural proteins--are dangerously false. In the case of amino acids, balance is everything. Aspartic and glutamic acids promote seizures and cause brain damage, and are intimately involved in the process of stress-induced brain aging, and tryptophan by itself is carcinogenic. Treating any complex natural product as the drug industry does, as a raw material to be fractionated in the search for "drug" products, is risky, because the relevant knowledge isn't sought in the search for an association between a single chemical and a single disease."

Why not just drink a regular sugar sweetened soda? Lol. Aspartame does not taste good to me. I had read about the excitotoxic qualities of aspartame and glutamate well before discovering Dr. Peat, but after a decade or so of chewing Trident.

 

[papaya]

From Dr. Peat's article, Coconut Oil --

"We have to remember that the arguments made for aspartame, monosodium glutamate, aspartic acid, and tryptophan--that they are like the amino acids that make up natural proteins--are dangerously false. In the case of amino acids, balance is everything. Aspartic and glutamic acids promote seizures and cause brain damage, and are intimately involved in the process of stress-induced brain aging, and tryptophan by itself is carcinogenic. Treating any complex natural product as the drug industry does, as a raw material to be fractionated in the search for "drug" products, is risky, because the relevant knowledge isn't sought in the search for an association between a single chemical and a single disease."

Why not just drink a regular sugar sweetened soda? Lol. Aspartame does not taste good to me. I had read about the excitotoxic qualities of aspartame and glutamate well before discovering Dr. Peat, but after a decade or so of chewing Trident.

thank u! i get my sugar from fruit & candied ginger. i could never bring myself to drink sugared soda. i still use stevia in my coffee. i also can't eat full fat ice cream yet. i eat the low fat haagen dasz yogurt.

 

[amethyst]

Should we start drinking diet soda?

Effects of repeated doses of aspartame on serotonin and its metabolite in various regions of the mouse brain. - PubMed - NCBI

NOOOOOOO! Aspertame, NutraSweet, is very bad for your brain. It's a toxin. Don't drink it!

 

[dookie]

@amethyst

It probably isn't directly healthy, but it can't be that bad: I know many people in excellent health who consume a lot of it, even older people

 

[psychomuse]

Ray Peat is quoted as saying aspartic acid causes seizures. I just wanted to add one tiny bit of anecdotal evidence from over twenty years ago, when my daughter lived on diet soda, and I had to take her to the pediatrician because she consistently complained of symptoms that sounded like seizures to me. He said he would normally have referred her to a neurologist for these symptoms, but he had seen too many female patients in the neighborhood with the same complaints, and he had decided it as some psychological thing among a specific population.

I was furious with him, but I played a hunch with my daughter and told her to cut the soda for a month just to see, and whaddya know? The seizures vanished and she voluntarily gave up drinking diet soda. We didn't'' bother to tell the pediatrician because we knew already that he didn't care. Those are my two cents.

 

[Gûs80]

Probably not, the amount used to sweeten the beverages is much lower than the needed amount for effect. This is why I provided the quote above, the minimum dose for effectiveness in mice was 130mg/kg, which was several fold higher than the maximum expected amount a person would typically consume from food/drinks.

Whenever I drink diet soda, sweetened with aspartame, I have an immediate effect on the brain, a wave of mental calm that is very easy to perceive. For me, this strong effect only loses potency to Nandrolone, which also decreases serotonin and contrary to common sense, it doesn't aromatize as they say. Since replacing trt with Nandrolone, I've only had benefits: better sleep, a strong decrease in anxiety (I'm very calm and welcoming) and the main thing for me, an incredible improvement in glucose elimination. TRT definitely made my insulin sensitivity worse, I had to go more low carb every day to maintain/lose weight.

As soon as I changed the protocol I began to experience hypoglycemia, which motivated me to research and find articles in humans that show that nandrolone actually increases insulin-independent glucose disposal and decreases gluconeogenesis.