Asking For Urgent Help. Calcium Sources? Orthorexia, Depression (sleep Induced) Traveling So

[sunraiser]

Hello everyone

I'm asking you kind people for your thoughts. ive been reading this forum for a little while - it's actually not a good place for me me as it fuels food fears and obsessing over health, however I have also noticed there are lots of intelligent people with a lot of non dogmatic insight to give. I'll try to keep it as short as possible and I'll be massively grateful for anything. I'm asking for your help as I'm rather vulnerable and in a quite soul asphyxiating pain.

My story is a long one, but basics are as follows:

Long time light eater. Went to a paleo type diet and ramped up my training a few years ago. Appetite never matched intensity and I ended up waking early and stressed. I pushed myself even harder in high intensity training and eventually realised training was making things worse. I became depressed and the depression would lift on days I was able to sleep more.

I accepted this would pass if I gave my body time to heal, and after a few months no training and a week off work I started to fall back to sleep after the early wakings. My depression started to lift as if by magic. I was frustated with the early waking as it was taking me an hour or so to fall asleep again - ALL the research on the internet pointed to magnesium so i gave it a go.

Magnesium = 4 MONTHS OF UNBEARSBLE HELL. I took the mg for 3 days at 400 mg 200mg 400 mg respectively. The first two nights took longer to sleep, the last night I didn't sleep and proceeded to be awake for 5 days with horrendous adrenaline rushing anxiety. Like nothing you could ever imagine, I had no anxious thoughts except wondering if I'd ever sleep again, just horrendous physical anxiety.

This lasted 4 months. Incidentally I fasted for a blood test and felt a little better that morning. The hell didnt end until I read a post about under eating (the thread here was inspiring - it potentially saved my life) - I started stuffing down 3k calories and my body finally stopped pumping adrenaline, sleep improved a bit but early waking remained and the resulting depression continues.

I force fed between 3-4.5k calories for 6 months, morning appetite never returned and I generally had to force the calories down. I got fed up from cooking so much and let my diet slip eating more sugary fatty processed foods just to spend some of my day not cooking and eating.

I felt increasingly tired during this period, however hair, cognition, skin dryness, general health all really improved. The calories were much needed but something was still wrong.
Started feeling worse after all the sugar and after a weekend away and 3 orgasms (cns excitement) I started getting heavy anxiety - different to the magnesium induced anxiety.

I had a few good says eating vegetarian, wondering if my heavy meat consumption had damaged me, but he anxiety came back after a day of heavy bread.

I then decided to go gluten free and dairy free and energy started getting better. Anxiety went almost instantly but depression slowly worsened. I went back on very limited dairy after 3 days and then a month later quit it again.

I've slowly been descending into hell with various good days dotted in - I'm becoming so neurotic and forgetful, I feel like my iq has dropped 50 points. I feel terrible for my girlfriend as she's endlessly supportive but has essentially lost part of the person she fell in love with for the moment.

I don't want to put weight on your responses so please only take this with a pinch of salt, but my current thinking is that I may have had celiac for a long time without tummy symptoms, then combined with the obscene training stress it caused low calcium (it can lose absorption in celiac). I have had an extremely good mag intake for a long time. Perhaps the mag supplement caused a calcium flush that put me to ultra dangerous levels - all the mag selling propaganda states magnesium can't impact calcium status but that's clearly untrue as they're antagonistic.

My guess is that dairy free my depression and cognition has been so much worse due to furthering calcium deficiency. I decided to try goats milk a few days ago and my depression eased he next day but I've had diarrhoea ever since.

I have a severely ****88 up HPA axis and I'm weak as I've been fighting through unbearable agony for so long. My will power is shot and I can barely think straight.

I'm supposed to be travelling to South America for 2 months next week. I MUST find a non dairy calcium source that isn't harsh on my tummy!!

I'm so so neurotic about food now because cutting dairy and gluten had quite a lot of positive effects and In my tires state I start to think every food could make me worse. Caloric intake is imperative for me but can't seem to eat enough avoiding gluten and dairy, also limiting meat (perhaps veggie days make me better as less calcium required.

I'm so so tired in both body and mind. Exhaustion has a new meaning for me.

Please please, any insight would be so welcome, especially regarding success of calcium sups and which ones.

i have become cold all the time and my skin is crazy dry, also.

 

[charlie]

 

[Lecarpetron]

Former severe insomniac (now down to moderate), similar background of overtraining/undereating. In the absence of someone more knowledgeable advising you...I suggest cyproheptadine.

Your stress hormones sound through the roof. When I got to that point, no amount of sugar/salt/calories/food in general could bring them down. Cypro was like a cortisol sledgehammer that allowed me to reset and then slowwwwly start the metabolism-boosting supps.

You didn't sleep for FIVE days? Holy cow. Three is my record and I have never known nor heard of an insomniac as ridiculous as I was.

 

[Constatine]

Wow your system is a wreck. First things first eat what your body craves as it will correct nutritional deficiencies via craving food. If you are consistently getting tired after eating food that is a sign of insulin resistance which is not surprising in your case. Veggies are a good source of calcium so if you are eating them I doubt you have servere calcium deficiency. Being cold and having dry skin are classical signs of hypothyroidism, as is having food sensitivities, sluggish thinking, etc. I would keep the orgasms to a minimal while recovering as it heavily taxes the system and sexual satiety can cause anxiety via androgen receptor downregulation in the brain. To fix your system I would focus on restoring mitochondria function. But before we can do that we need to restore your mental health as mental stress uses up a lot of energy that we need for your body.

Supplements to consider for improved mitochondria and mental health:
All fat soluble vitamins (a,d,e, and especially vitamin k) be sure to use a large dose of vitamin k (5mg or more) as it is one of the better supplements for mental stability, mood, mitochondria health, and androgen levels.
Methylene Blue - famous for its effects on the mitochondria this is an important supplement for recovery. Be sure to not take large doses of this as large doses can increase serotonin too much. (Serotonin being bad for recovery).
Vitamin b1 - Great for energy production (turning surgar into energy), mitochondria health, and mental well being.
Coconut oil- dramatically increases the metabolism and thyroid status. I would only take 1-2 servings a day as some people negatively react to a high fat- high surgar diet. Coconut oil also seems to help with digestion which is a problem you seem to have.

Beyond this try getting enough sun exposure (improves mitochondria health, lowers stress hormones, etc), try grounding (improves thyroid status), and try exercising at a very comfortable pace (to where you barely get tired).

 

[tara]

If you are managing to get in plenty of calories, then paying attention to the other nutrients makes sense to me.
I think you are right thato watch out for not getting too restrictive - eating is more important than eating 'perfectly'.
I know what you mean about it being harder without dairy and gluten (I was trying to do it without sugar too, which lead to a lot of unintended hunger and suffering).

You need lots of minerals and vitamins to be able to make good use of all the carbohydrates, and to rebuild yourself.
In the absence of dairy, you can get calcium from well-cooked leafy greens, esp. if you drink the water they are cooked in, eggshell powder, oyster shell powder.
Gelatin and collagen can be good sources of protein - eg make soups or stews with gelatinous cuts of meat and spinach/chard/kale etc.
You can make jellies with gelatine and fruit juice or stewed fruit (+ extra sugar to taste).
A serving of liver weekly (or smaller ones more often) is a good source of nutrients - find a way you like too eat it.
It all takes a bit of effort, and when you are not feeling great that can be hard to muster, but some of these things you can make big batches of and freeze portions for when you are in a hurry.

You could consider trying some B-vit supplements - eg a little niacinamide (eg 50-100mg) with meals, maybe some B1, and the fat soluble vitamins ADEK as Constatine suggested.

I agree about getting sunshine, and gentle movement
And I'll add attending to breathing. Is it generally relaxed, light, nasal, diaphragmatic, or more mouth, chest, heavy?

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah magnesium can be really bad for some people. If you tend towards low tissue potassium it can push that down further increasing anxiety.

So to address your mental state, just know that you are not broken, you can heal and get better!! You are not your emotions.

 

[Richiebogie]

How much fruit are you eating @sunraiser ? While we can survive on all sorts of foods, fruit appears to be the best food for us. (Except for tomatoes, peppers and goji berries, as these are nightshades and our bodies do not recognise their lectins.)

Fruit contains simple sugars, soluble fibre, vitamins including vitamin C, minerals including potassium and salicylates which are like aspirin which seems to be a very good supplement for depression and cancer.

I often drink 2 litres of OJ a day, and about 6 very ripe bananas, some raspberries (bought frozen), mango (bought frozen out of season), papaya, coconut (bought desiccated), dried figs, dates etc.

I am trialling living without grain, other seeds, legumes, dairy, eggs, meat & fish. My urine is not yellow any more, so I suppose a lot of my protein was just being urinated away after a lot of work by my digestive system and kidneys! (If I find that I need animal protein then I think sardines, oysters and shrimp are least inflammatory and have the least mercury - if they have come from non industrial areas). Gelatin might be ok, particularly from wild birds (not factory grain-fed chickens).

Maybe aim for 2500 Calories a day - not too much and not too little.

As fruit is so alkaline, you will not need as much calcium. Still, figs appear to be the richest fruit source of calcium. 100g of dried figs gives you 162mg of calcium, but be careful if you are allergic to the sulphur dioxide preservative.

 

[mujuro]

You sound like me before I got back on my meds. The obsession, neuroticism, depression, the agonizing over food choices, the poor sleep, the fluctuating energy levels.

Have you ever had bloodwork done for cortisol am/pm?

 

[sunraiser]

Thanks for taking the time to reply everyone :)

@Lecarpetron, yep, 5 days! I was genuinely scared I'd never sleep again. I'm rather anti pharm approach right now but I'll remember the name.

@Constatine I eat some veg but you really need an awful lot to get a respectable degree of calcium. I've come to realise I was eating a huge amount of phosphorus for a long time and a potential calcium absorption issue may have been caused by gluten intolerance. Paleo sites and the Internet in general are too casual about calcium in my opinion. I'm going to experiment further.

Fully with you on the limiting orgasm front. I was celibate for around 18 months before all this happened. I'll check out the supps, thank you.

@tara calories are clearly a big thing, since lowering I've regressed in temperature (perceived) and skin. I generally look less healthy also. If you have any tips for eating enough around work and life while avoiding gluten and dairy I'd very much appreciate it. I'll try the gelatinous cuts - I need to read more about them. Already on around 100g liver per week - i actually really enjoy it with onions!

Sunshine will happen in South America I'm hoping :)

@janelle thank you. I've been trying to hold onto the fact I know it's physiology. I've felt a huge difference since trying calcium. It has been impossible to control my thoughts or do anything spiritually beneficial in the last months. Literally holding on with everything I have through the despair.

@Richiebogie I eat a few servings of fruit a day. I have a bad hpa axis dysfunction and sugar isn't the best for me right now. I'm under eating and severely sleep deprived so can't really exercise to utilise the sugar and improve insulin resistance.

I'm going to aim for 2500 calories, trying to get some sardines and oysters in where possible already! I can't do an avoidant diet in the same vein as you - the food fears don't sit well with me. I eat legumes nearly every day!

@mujuro yes, it's rather horrible. The food fears are present because when I get a moment of feeling better it's so easy to focus on which food instead of looking at things through a macro lense. The escape from agony makes it easy to be hypersensitive. I had high AM cortisol back in April. Unsure at current.

The depression makes no sense though. The neuroticism is a symptom, albeit a difficult one. I believe calcium is key for me, I just need a base to build from so I'm not clinging on for dear life in fear of losing myself to the current each day.

Thank you all again. I appreciate the comments and wisdom

 

[tara]

@tara... If you have any tips for eating enough around work and life while avoiding gluten and dairy I'd very much appreciate it.

Depends on what your life and logistics are like.
For me, I have access to a microwave at work, and I tend to bring a cooked meal to heat for lunch. And an extra container or two for morning or afternoon tea. I don't do well with lots of milk, but I seem to have some tolerance for a bit of butter, which makes a difference to palatability. I come and go a bit on wheat and gluten avoidance. These are some of the non-dairy, non-gluten foods I often eat:
Mashed potatoes. Home-baked potato chips in coconut oil. Sometimes sweet potatoes for a change.
Rice.
Stews made with veges and meat - round here you can often get soup bones that are the gelatinous joints, and they can make really good soups and stews. Varying the veges makes for variety.
Chopped fruit with rice and a little coconut oil or butter makes a portable snack.
Boiled eggs for portable protein when I don't have access to microwave.
Apple juice.
I don't eat a lot of grains other than rice, but occasionally oat porridge for breakfast, or buckwheat or qinoa (I don't think Peat would recommend large quantities of these, but I just want variety sometimes.) Pancakes made from buckwheat or qinoa are portable, and nice with stewed fruit or jam or whatever filling.
Breakfast is often eggs or liver with veges and spuds or rice.
Dinner usually includes soup made with veges and stock.
Snacks include fruit, juice, dried fruit, chocolate, occasional rice cakes/wafers/crackers with pate, honey, marmite, ......

 

[Richiebogie]

Legumes are pretty toxic. If you buy them as dry beans or lentils, make sure you soak them for 12 hours and pressure cook them for 30 minutes.

The plants do not want you to eat them, as per grains and other seeds. You will need to process the poisons out of them!

I wonder if these foods are causing your HPA issues...?

I would stick to fruit, salad, sweet potato, a can of sardines (80g drained) or other seafood in the morning and a teaspoon of gelatine in the evening if you can afford it.

 

[proteome]

Hello everyone

I'm asking you kind people for your thoughts. ive been reading this forum for a little while - it's actually not a good place for me me as it fuels food fears and obsessing over health, however I have also noticed there are lots of intelligent people with a lot of non dogmatic insight to give. I'll try to keep it as short as possible and I'll be massively grateful for anything. I'm asking for your help as I'm rather vulnerable and in a quite soul asphyxiating pain.

My story is a long one, but basics are as follows:

Long time light eater. Went to a paleo type diet and ramped up my training a few years ago. Appetite never matched intensity and I ended up waking early and stressed. I pushed myself even harder in high intensity training and eventually realised training was making things worse. I became depressed and the depression would lift on days I was able to sleep more.

I accepted this would pass if I gave my body time to heal, and after a few months no training and a week off work I started to fall back to sleep after the early wakings. My depression started to lift as if by magic. I was frustated with the early waking as it was taking me an hour or so to fall asleep again - ALL the research on the internet pointed to magnesium so i gave it a go.

Magnesium = 4 MONTHS OF UNBEARSBLE HELL. I took the mg for 3 days at 400 mg 200mg 400 mg respectively. The first two nights took longer to sleep, the last night I didn't sleep and proceeded to be awake for 5 days with horrendous adrenaline rushing anxiety. Like nothing you could ever imagine, I had no anxious thoughts except wondering if I'd ever sleep again, just horrendous physical anxiety.

This seems like too much to take to start. People who have high sensitivity to changes in nutrients that feed their nervous system will need to start much slower.
Here's an example of someone who played it very, very safe with supplementation, taking doses that my system easily shrugged off as noise:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uod2DoGejvI&t=117s

I've been taking magnesium threonate from Now Supplements, and I think the form this guy took was sucrosomal? magnesium, a new form, in very small amounts, perhaps starting with 10mg.

This lasted 4 months. Incidentally I fasted for a blood test and felt a little better that morning. The hell didnt end until I read a post about under eating (the thread here was inspiring - it potentially saved my life) - I started stuffing down 3k calories and my body finally stopped pumping adrenaline, sleep improved a bit but early waking remained and the resulting depression continues.

I've had very early waking before, perhaps 03:00 or 04:00, and it is the harbinger of doom.

I'm supposed to be travelling to South America for 2 months next week. I MUST find a non dairy calcium source that isn't harsh on my tummy!!

I'm so so neurotic about food now because cutting dairy and gluten had quite a lot of positive effects and In my tires state I start to think every food could make me worse. Caloric intake is imperative for me but can't seem to eat enough avoiding gluten and dairy, also limiting meat (perhaps veggie days make me better as less calcium required.

I'm so so tired in both body and mind. Exhaustion has a new meaning for me.

Please please, any insight would be so welcome, especially regarding success of calcium sups and which ones.

i have become cold all the time and my skin is crazy dry, also.

Have you considered just supplementing home-made calcium citrate, in the form of lemon juice mixed with calcium carbonate?

You could try 1/8 teaspoon of calcium carbonate, 1 teaspoon of lemon juice, lime juice, or some other slightly acidic fruit juice, and water.

Also, traditionally prepared tortillas are supposed to have calcium, if you can tolerate that kind of food and find a version that doesn't have much glyphosate.

@sunraiser do you have any test data for us to review?