Ashwagandha For Subclinical Hypothyroid

BibleBeliever

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I know Ray says St. John's Wort can induce serotonin syndrome.
Tryptophan, Serotonin, and Aging
" the use of drugs such as St. John's wort (which can also cause the “serotonin syndrome”) could be another effect of excess serotonin."
I think in Germany it is prescribed for depression more than anti-depressants.
 

Frankdee20

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It is unequivocally, strongly Serotoninergic. That's not disputed at all. I was just making the point that psychoactive herbs do, or tend to effect more than one brain system. Of course to varying degrees at each one. It's just I kept reading Ashwaganda posts, and people were attributing ill effects to Serotonin. I guess I meant how could we definitively say it is Serotonin when Ashwaganda effects multiple systems. I don't even dispute that Ashwaganda can be a nasty herb. I don't know.... I'm over this thread, thanks.
 

Constatine

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Just tried ashwagandha again and got a migraine and rapid heart beat. I'm going to try microdosing it tomorrow and report back. I think the dosages are typically too high on this herb. It's very powerful. What's funny is that aside from the migraine I feel pretty good on it.
 

Frankdee20

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Just tried ashwagandha again and got a migraine and rapid heart beat. I'm going to try microdosing it tomorrow and report back. I think the dosages are typically too high on this herb. It's very powerful. What's funny is that aside from the migraine I feel pretty good on it.

How much are we talking, and in what preparation of the herb ? Powdered root, withanolodes amount, whole herb ? Etc.,
 

evo21

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Just tried ashwagandha again and got a migraine and rapid heart beat. I'm going to try microdosing it tomorrow and report back. I think the dosages are typically too high on this herb. It's very powerful. What's funny is that aside from the migraine I feel pretty good on it.

I had a migraine that lasted a few hours the day after i started Ashwagandha, but never happened again. Been taking it for a month. I'm still not exactly sure about the effects it has on me because i'm having other health issues (unrelated to the Ashwagandha). It does seem to calm me down quite a bit.
 

Constatine

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Still getting a headache from just one drop. Just ain't for me anymore I guess.
 

Frankdee20

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Shouldn't lessening the inhibitory effect of 5ht1a on glutamate promote more exocytosis? And as a result, INCREASE anxiety and OCD? Alcohol (and other NMDA antagonists) reduces both.

I'm going to assume your right, perhaps Ashwaganda users get anxiety relief through its pro GABA effects however, idk
 

yerrag

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I took this the past two nights to help me with a good sleep. I took away GABA and replaced with this. I used 1 gram. It really helps with the sleep more, as I find myself waking up less. I hope with more sleep, I get to increase my glycogen stores.

I took it also because I wanted to counter the effect of taking selenomethionine, part of my protocol for detox. Selenomethionine seems to lower my waking temperature, and I'm no surprised because it is used to counter hyperthyroidism in my cats.

But today I feel I need to lower the dosage. I woke up early with good waking energy, meaning I had a restful sleep. But that energy quickly waned, even after a full breakfast with coffee. My waking temperature also went down.

I'll lower the dosage to 500mg, from 1000mg, and take it daytime instead.

Since I tested on the high side of range for morning cortisol, it makes sense to take it in the morning, as this helps lower cortisol. My pm cortisol is fine though, so no need for evening use I guess. Incidentally, to put it into context, I also tested on the high side on prolactin, so I'm putting 4 drops Progestene twice daily, to help counter estrogen.

Using this could increase my serotonin levels further, given it could already be high (from high prolactin). What should I take to lower serotonin? Cyproheptadine Ok?
 

Constatine

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I took this the past two nights to help me with a good sleep. I took away GABA and replaced with this. I used 1 gram. It really helps with the sleep more, as I find myself waking up less. I hope with more sleep, I get to increase my glycogen stores.

I took it also because I wanted to counter the effect of taking selenomethionine, part of my protocol for detox. Selenomethionine seems to lower my waking temperature, and I'm no surprised because it is used to counter hyperthyroidism in my cats.

But today I feel I need to lower the dosage. I woke up early with good waking energy, meaning I had a restful sleep. But that energy quickly waned, even after a full breakfast with coffee. My waking temperature also went down.

I'll lower the dosage to 500mg, from 1000mg, and take it daytime instead.

Since I tested on the high side of range for morning cortisol, it makes sense to take it in the morning, as this helps lower cortisol. My pm cortisol is fine though, so no need for evening use I guess. Incidentally, to put it into context, I also tested on the high side on prolactin, so I'm putting 4 drops Progestene twice daily, to help counter estrogen.

Using this could increase my serotonin levels further, given it could already be high (from high prolactin). What should I take to lower serotonin? Cyproheptadine Ok?
I have found it very hard to counter the serotonin effects of ashwagandha. I've given up on it but if you find that anything works please report back.
 

yerrag

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I have found it very hard to counter the serotonin effects of ashwagandha. I've given up on it but if you find that anything works please report back.
Thanks for the warning. I'm gonna try. I guess if I'm feeling like I'm heading towards hibernating, it's likely not working. The problem with this strategy is that it takes me out from my flow, and my whole day is lost.
 

Tarmander

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So weird, I take this stuff every day and literally it feels like nothing...maybe because it's in the formulation.
 

Frankdee20

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I have found it very hard to counter the serotonin effects of ashwagandha. I've given up on it but if you find that anything works please report back.

See Constantine, I don't doubt your judgement. How does one really know the bothersome effects are 5HT related, and not from Ashwaganda's acetylcholinesterase inhibition, or some other aspect ? Are we measuring brain Serotonin, or urine metabolites ?
 

yerrag

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Yeah strange. It is very powerful for me.
I have a faint recollection of an interview where Ray mentions that a lot of serotonin is removed/inactivated in the lungs. He mentions negative ions, especially from sea breeze, increased the levels of an enzyme, superoxide distmutase, which serves as a potective antioxidant. I have been meaning to get my ionizer back working, as an ionizer also produces plenty of negative ions. A salt lamp also does the same thing. I have one as well, but I think the effect from an ionizer would be more significant.
 

BibleBeliever

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I have found it very hard to counter the serotonin effects of ashwagandha. I've given up on it but if you find that anything works please report back.
Still having daily, since reintroduction.
I found ashwaghanda greatly increases appetite. Having about 2 grams of the powder. I have it with my large meal after work and raw ginger root; ginger is anti-serotonin. If I do not eat it with a lot of food, it causes strong irritability.
Otherwise libido is significantly enhanced by it and muscular output and desire to exercise.
 

Frankdee20

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Still having daily, since reintroduction.
I found ashwaghanda greatly increases appetite. Having about 2 grams of the powder. I have it with my large meal after work and raw ginger root; ginger is anti-serotonin. If I do not eat it with a lot of food, it causes strong irritability.
Otherwise libido is significantly enhanced by it and muscular output and desire to exercise.

Jack, I wonder if the irritability you report stems from the herbs cortisol inhibition, or acetylcholinesterase enzyme inhibition ? I'm not saying your wrong, but my point on this thread was I kept reading users blame Serotonin. I ask them though, how do they know? How do they really know that's what's causing it ? Especially with this herb, it has multiple pharmacological binding sites. If something was exclusively Serotonin modifying, like 5htp, or L Tryptophan, then I'd buy the grievances. Even then, those 2 also interact with cortisol, and ACTH. So how the hell do we know exactly what's going on, and where ?
 

BibleBeliever

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Jack, I wonder if the irritability you report stems from the herbs cortisol inhibition, or acetylcholinesterase enzyme inhibition ? I'm not saying your wrong, but my point on this thread was I kept reading users blame Serotonin. I ask them though, how do they know? How do they really know that's what's causing it ? Especially with this herb, it has multiple pharmacological binding sites. If something was exclusively Serotonin modifying, like 5htp, or L Tryptophan, then I'd buy the grievances. Even then, those 2 also interact with cortisol, and ACTH. So how the hell do we know exactly what's going on, and where ?

Could be, no way to really know for sure just from anecdotal measures; as innumerable variables. Having it ginger and lots of food helps take away any negatives, whatever the cause is. There are cases where it is tied to hyperthyroidism ( [Thyrotoxicosis following the use of ashwagandha]. - PubMed - NCBI ); so an overactive thyroid without sufficient food could cause the negatives. My hope is that it doesn't increase serotonin too much and that the factors you mention are more of the possible causes. Possible too that some it raises serotonin more, others it doesn't. The lowered cortisol could explain the dream-like estate many experience too.
The one study I read, I think the people gained 5 lbs of muscle in a month and lost 2.3% of body fat. Exploratory study to evaluate tolerability, safety, and activity of Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) in healthy volunteers
 

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