Article About Evolution, Thyroid And Heart Regeneration, What Do You Think?

xeliex

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That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I'd be interested in hearing more people talk about this.
 

lampofred

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Interesting article.

Estrogen is necessary for cell division, and human hearts seem to have evolved to be profoundly dependent on progesterone for proper functioning, so I can see how the increase in thyroid hormone over evolution might have made it so that heart cells can no longer divide/proliferate.

However, Dr. Peat does say that even heart cells can regenerate under the influence of good thyroid, so I wonder what type of regeneration he is talking about. Maybe he is saying old cells can revert back into younger cells, which doesn't involve proliferation, as opposed to old cells dividing and creating new heart cells.
 

yerrag

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Interesting. I wonder if thyroid is simply an enabler of higher internal body temperatures and that the ability to regenerate is more an inverse function of temperature. When we have a fever, it's our body's way of limiting the growth of pathogenic microbes. With the ability to keep our body warm enough, we succumb less to infection and we also see less of a need to regenerate as there isn't damaged tissue that needs regeneration.

On the other hand, cold-blooded fish depend on the weather to give them protection from infection. In tropical weather, they succumb less to infection, from both virus and bacteria. While warm tropical weather is a plus in this aspect, a perpetual summer environment isn't. Perhaps it's because they lose the ability to regenerate their organs, and very often, in my experience raising koi, they would end up with swim bladder disorder, which leads to death by infection. Contrast this with koi raised in say the Netherlands, which tend to live longer. The changing of the seasons would allow for the koi to live in near freezing water, where during this time it will be fasting, and in this cold environment, it would allow for vital organs to regenerate. The real danger for koi in man-made ponds is the transition from winter into spring, as during this time, the koi's immunity are just getting back into gear, and if it's exposed to a poorly managed transition by the pond owner, where bacteria and virus become more active and multiply, the koi could be overwhelmed by infection and die. But good koi keepers can take avoid such a situation, and with that, koi keepers in temperate climes can expect to see their koi live much longer than koi in tropical climes.

This makes me wonder though about hibernation. Do hibernating animals live long lives, if they were protected from the vagaries of survival in a natural ecosystem? And what can we learn from them about hibernating, so that we can somehow benefit from artificial conditions conducive to hibernation?

Or maybe man would live longer had he not discovered fire, and thus he would be just as adept as bears in adapting to the seasons in a temperate climate. Do you think rural Siberian folk live longer lives?
 
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Interesting thoughts, yerrag. They seem inspired by Jack Kruse's theories.

Most if not all the blue zones are in warm climates. I'm sure that there are many long lived Siberians. Who knows, maybe the researchers for the blue zones didn't want to go to Siberia?

Off the top of my head, it seems that many if not all of the longest living animals are warm-blooded.
 

Fractality

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Relevant quote from RP's "Heart and Hormones" article

Because of the traditional belief that heart cells can't replicate, this functional growth was believed to be produced purely by the enlargement of cells, but in recent years the existence of stem cells able to create new heart muscle has been recognized. Thyroid is likely to be one of the hormones responsible for allowing stem cells to differentiate into cardiomyocytes.
 

yerrag

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Off the top of my head, it seems that many if not all of the longest living animals are warm-blooded.
I didn't know that, but aren't there many deep sea creatures that live long lives as well? It's also hard to tell as that's a relatively unexplored frontier for us. Regardless, it somehow makes sense that warm-blooded creatures could live long lives, as we're able to deal with opportunistic pathogens better, while the cold-blooded creatures resort to regeneration to extend their lives to perhaps compensate for their handicap in internally fighting off bacteria?

I'll have to read up on Jack Kruse as it would be interesting to hear his thoughts.

Relevant quote from RP's "Heart and Hormones" article

There seems to be wide disconnect between the study and Ray Peat's ideas. How to reconcile? What are the confounding factors?
 

yerrag

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I'm not certain, but I think I read in the book "The Body Electric" something about why salamanders regenerate so well and we don't. If I recall correctly, it has to do that our brains use up a lot of energy, energy that could have been used for regeneration. But I have a vague recollection, so I should go back to reading that book.
 

Fractality

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I'm not certain, but I think I read in the book "The Body Electric" something about why salamanders regenerate so well and we don't. If I recall correctly, it has to do that our brains use up a lot of energy, energy that could have been used for regeneration. But I have a vague recollection, so I should go back to reading that book.

I thought it had something to do with CO2
 

Fractality

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There seems to be wide disconnect between the study and Ray Peat's ideas. How to reconcile? What are the confounding factors?

I've emailed Ray about this, will see if he responds and update this thread.
 

lampofred

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Interesting, so the "quieter the mind" the more CO2? Now I'm thinking of those monks in the mountains (altitude = more CO2!)

Yes, and according to yoga texts it's a very strong inverse correlation, not even just a mild one. The relationship works both ways. Quieting the mind increases CO2, increasing CO2 by slowing breathing/moving to high altitude quiets the mind.

On a more technical level, not relying on yogic texts, thinking requires glutamate and serotonin, and stimulates sodium + calcium uptake in the neuron, which is associated with lactic acid production. A quiet mind = high GABA, and magnesium + potassium in the neuron, which is associated with CO2 production.
 

Andman

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Interesting, so the "quieter the mind" the more CO2? Now I'm thinking of those monks in the mountains (altitude = more CO2!)

increasing Co2 is very calming, think buteyko or certain forms of yoga

edit: too slow
 
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