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Arthritic Fingers And Hands

Discussion in 'iLoveSugar' started by iLoveSugar, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    I'm only 28, but deal with terribly arthritic fingers and hands. Some fingers are even bowing in. It's never kept me up at night, but now it is.

    Any ideas on this? I supplement with Vit D.
     
  2. HDD

    HDD Member

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    The following is from Ray Peat's article on calcium.

    "It is extremely important to realize that calcium deposits in soft tissues become worse when the diet is low in calcium. Persons suffering from arthritis, bursitis, scleroderma, hardening of the arteries and any abnormality where calcium deposits or spurs may cause pain are often afraid to eat foods rich in calcium. Actually they can never improve until their calcium and magnesium intakes are adequate. Not infrequently physicians tell individuals with kidney stones to avoid all milk, thereby causing stones to form even more rapidly. Such calcium deposits can also occur when vitamin E is undersupplied. After open-heart surgery, when both magnesium and vitamin E are drastically needed and could easily be given, the calcification of heart muscles often becomes so severe that it can cause death within a few days. Pages 171-172, Lets Eat Right to Keep Fit, Adelle Davis, Signet, 1970."

    So once again, magnesium could be a factor. Also, are you supplementing vitamin E?
     
  3. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    Ugh! I've had more egg shell calcium and milk than ever recently.
     
  4. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Add magnesium rich foods or supplement to bowel tolerance and supplement E.
    :2cents:
     
  5. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    How does E help?
     
  6. HDD

    HDD Member

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    "Such calcium deposits can also occur when vitamin E is undersupplied. " (from above quote)

    And because
    "Vitamin E: Estrogen antagonist, energy promoter, and anti-inflammatory"


    This just came to me a little while ago. I have had arthritis in my hips the last two days. I dont normally have any arthritis pain. I was trying to figure out why. I thought it might be a reaction to a Cuban sandwich I ate.lol I also thought it might be because I haven't had gelatin in a while. Now, after posting on your threads,I think it could be because I was increasing t3 a little and need more magnesium. I am going to supplement a little and see if it helps. I already take 400 iu vitamin E daily.
     
  7. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    I take about 1 tsp of Mag Glycinate a day.
     
  8. HDD

    HDD Member

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    How much magnesium in mg? Have you ever tried taking more?
     
  9. HDD

    HDD Member

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    "But when this man went to his doctor to "get something for his arthritis," he was annoyed that the doctor insisted on giving him a complete physical exam, and wouldn't give him a shot of cortisone. The examination showed low thyroid function, and the doctor prescribed a supplement of thyroid extract, explaining that arthritis is one of the many symptoms of hypothyroidism. The patient agreed to take the thyroid, but for several days he grumbled about the doctor 'fixing something that wasn't wrong' with him, and ignoring his arthritis. But in less than two weeks, the arthritis had entirely disappeared. He lived to be 89, without a recurrence of arthritis. (He died iatrogenically, while in good health.) "

    I wasn't sure if you had seen this about arthritis.


    Progest-e can be used topically for pain.
     
  10. OP
    iLoveSugar

    iLoveSugar Member

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    It seems like a Broda Barnes quote. Yeah?
     
  11. HDD

    HDD Member

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    The man with the arthritis story is from-
    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... tion.shtml

    Arthritis is another symptom of hypothyroidism and the treatment for arthritis is thyroid. But, in your situation, since you are not responding to thyroid, you need to examine everything to try and figure out why. Magnesium may not be factor, but looking at your other symptoms, it very well could be.

    At one point in my Peat journey, I started having muscle cramps in my calves. My intake of calcium was more than it had ever been in my life. I was perplexed in that my metabolism was improving but I was getting negative symptoms. I researched the cramps and concluded that I needed magnesium. I increased magnesium through diet and supplementation and since then started on thyroid. I haven't had any cramping since.

    I don't know if the arthritic pain in my hips that arose the past couple of days was from increasing thyroid. Like I said earlier, I was looking at some foods that I thought might have caused problems (pure guessing here). I did supplement a little magnesium citrate last night and the hip pain is gone this morning. Could be a coincidence.

    "Hypothyroidism reduces the ability of cells to retain magnesium. Thyroid does many things to protect against seizures. It keeps estrogen and adrenal hormones low, and increases production of progesterone and pregnenolone. It facilitates retention of magnesium and of sodium, and prevents edema in a variety of ways."

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ep ... rone.shtml

    bold mine
     
  12. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Just saw this post by Bryan on Peatarian site-

    Basically any condition cortisone shots are used for, you can use thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone instead. Peat seems to think arthritis a sort of steroid deficiency.

    Under extreme stress through 2011/2012 I developed a swollen hand, that was stiff and painful. It wasn't an injury and lasted almost a year, so it seemed like arthritis to me. Large doses of pregnenolone and progesterone reversed it, and I haven't had any recurrence of any symptoms for a year or two. I'm relatively young though, so it may not be so easy for others.

    Here's a quote from one of Peat's articles:

    "While hypothyroidism makes the body require more cortisone to sustain blood sugar and energy production, it also limits the ability to produce cortisone, so in some cases stress produces symptoms resulting from a deficiency of cortisone, including various forms of arthritis and more generalized types of chronic inflammation."

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... tion.shtml

    answered 3 hours ago by Bryan
     
  13. Kray

    Kray Member

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    Hi H-D,

    Thanks for the great information and sharing of your experience with adding stuff that helped your arthritic symptoms.
    My chronic dermatitis (eczema?) has me looking at what I'm missing besides food :). So, reading your post, I'm looking back again at pregnenolone, progesterone, magnesium and maybe vitamin E.

    While I don't have arthritic symptoms as you did, wouldn't a chronic skin dryness and inflammation be much like arthritis in its inflammatory expression? If I assumed this, and nothing I've done so far has seemed to work (extra B vitamins, vitamin A-- in fact, I think I took too much, so now I'm almost fearful of taking any supplements and have backed off everything except about 400mg magnesium per day, some progesterone, and 400IU vitamin E), how much pregnenolone, progesterone, and magnesium would you suggest I take? By the way, I don't take thyroid at this point and I know that dry skin can be a sign of hypo, but my temps and pulse are pretty near normal. I probably hover just below 98.6 throughout the day, but my waking temps are normal.

    Talking about progesterone using Progest-E and realizing it is highly individual, it is also difficult to visualize dosage. Can I ask how much you used daily when you were having your arthritic symptoms? Can you estimate in teaspoon equivalent? Same for pregnenolone and magnesium?

    Now, having said I don't do thyroid, I am willing to try because the dermatitis has become so tenacious and chronic. So, I have ordered a supply of Thiroyd. It has been almost a month and still haven't received it. Would you suggest a starting dose?

    Thanks for your help once again.

    C-Lady
     
  14. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Hi C-lady,

    From Peatarian.com email exchange-

    Eczema
    "Is he getting enough calcium? Liver and thyroid would be better than trying to use separate vitamins---vitamin A deficiency is the most likely, but some B vitamins could be involved, and a vitamin A supplement can increase the need for thyroid hormone, which is increased anyway during the winter."

    According to Ray Peat, thyroid and liver would be better for eczema than the supplements. I use cynoplus/cynomel, so I followed Ray Peat's instructions when I began. Broda Barnes says that a safe starting dose for a teenager or adult is one grain daily. I am not sure how that translates to the thyroid you ordered.

    As far as my arthritic symptoms, they passed quickly. The post above was from Bryan on peatarian.com. Sorry for the confusion. I recently started taking Progest-e again. I am using 3-6 drops at bedtime and sometimes a few drops during the day. I may not have ever used an adequate amount to "see" results. Since I am post-menopausal, I don't have the obvious estrogen dominance symptoms. As I read more of Peat's estrogen articles (or reread), I am more confident in using progesterone.
    I have used 50-100 mg of pregnenolone in the past. I currently take 70 mg (size of the scoop) once or twice a week.
    I take about 150 mg. of magnesium citrate occasionally. I don't tolerate supplemental magnesium well.
     
  15. mayweatherking

    mayweatherking Member

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    was curious to hear how you were doing today.
     
  16. Kray

    Kray Member

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    C-Lady here-- was it to me you were referring? If so, I can offer some information on a private conversation if you have specific questions.

    Thanks!
    C-Lady
     
  17. dookie

    dookie Member

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    Anecdotally, I have seen mildly arthritic fingers become straight after a single dose of progesterone (about 50 mg). Have you tried progesterone or pregnenolone? I also think coffee may have some value as a therapy
     
  18. skycop00

    skycop00 Member

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    I would look at a trial dose of hydrocortisone. I have had great success with physiological doses make life changing general improvement, even with itger auto immune issues. The low dose trial works synergistically with thyroid. To view one and ignore the other is a mistake I feel
     
  19. skycop00

    skycop00 Member

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    That may be why so many see.positive results with pregnenolone and or progesterone which feed cirtisol pathway
     
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