Arthritic Fingers And Hands

iLoveSugar

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
951
I'm only 28, but deal with terribly arthritic fingers and hands. Some fingers are even bowing in. It's never kept me up at night, but now it is.

Any ideas on this? I supplement with Vit D.
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
The following is from Ray Peat's article on calcium.

"It is extremely important to realize that calcium deposits in soft tissues become worse when the diet is low in calcium. Persons suffering from arthritis, bursitis, scleroderma, hardening of the arteries and any abnormality where calcium deposits or spurs may cause pain are often afraid to eat foods rich in calcium. Actually they can never improve until their calcium and magnesium intakes are adequate. Not infrequently physicians tell individuals with kidney stones to avoid all milk, thereby causing stones to form even more rapidly. Such calcium deposits can also occur when vitamin E is undersupplied. After open-heart surgery, when both magnesium and vitamin E are drastically needed and could easily be given, the calcification of heart muscles often becomes so severe that it can cause death within a few days. Pages 171-172, Lets Eat Right to Keep Fit, Adelle Davis, Signet, 1970."

So once again, magnesium could be a factor. Also, are you supplementing vitamin E?
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
Add magnesium rich foods or supplement to bowel tolerance and supplement E.
:2cents:
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
"Such calcium deposits can also occur when vitamin E is undersupplied. " (from above quote)

And because
"Vitamin E: Estrogen antagonist, energy promoter, and anti-inflammatory"


This just came to me a little while ago. I have had arthritis in my hips the last two days. I dont normally have any arthritis pain. I was trying to figure out why. I thought it might be a reaction to a Cuban sandwich I ate.lol I also thought it might be because I haven't had gelatin in a while. Now, after posting on your threads,I think it could be because I was increasing t3 a little and need more magnesium. I am going to supplement a little and see if it helps. I already take 400 iu vitamin E daily.
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
How much magnesium in mg? Have you ever tried taking more?
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
"But when this man went to his doctor to "get something for his arthritis," he was annoyed that the doctor insisted on giving him a complete physical exam, and wouldn't give him a shot of cortisone. The examination showed low thyroid function, and the doctor prescribed a supplement of thyroid extract, explaining that arthritis is one of the many symptoms of hypothyroidism. The patient agreed to take the thyroid, but for several days he grumbled about the doctor 'fixing something that wasn't wrong' with him, and ignoring his arthritis. But in less than two weeks, the arthritis had entirely disappeared. He lived to be 89, without a recurrence of arthritis. (He died iatrogenically, while in good health.) "

I wasn't sure if you had seen this about arthritis.


Progest-e can be used topically for pain.
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
The man with the arthritis story is from-
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... tion.shtml

Arthritis is another symptom of hypothyroidism and the treatment for arthritis is thyroid. But, in your situation, since you are not responding to thyroid, you need to examine everything to try and figure out why. Magnesium may not be factor, but looking at your other symptoms, it very well could be.

At one point in my Peat journey, I started having muscle cramps in my calves. My intake of calcium was more than it had ever been in my life. I was perplexed in that my metabolism was improving but I was getting negative symptoms. I researched the cramps and concluded that I needed magnesium. I increased magnesium through diet and supplementation and since then started on thyroid. I haven't had any cramping since.

I don't know if the arthritic pain in my hips that arose the past couple of days was from increasing thyroid. Like I said earlier, I was looking at some foods that I thought might have caused problems (pure guessing here). I did supplement a little magnesium citrate last night and the hip pain is gone this morning. Could be a coincidence.

"Hypothyroidism reduces the ability of cells to retain magnesium. Thyroid does many things to protect against seizures. It keeps estrogen and adrenal hormones low, and increases production of progesterone and pregnenolone. It facilitates retention of magnesium and of sodium, and prevents edema in a variety of ways."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ep ... rone.shtml

bold mine
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
Just saw this post by Bryan on Peatarian site-

Basically any condition cortisone shots are used for, you can use thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone instead. Peat seems to think arthritis a sort of steroid deficiency.

Under extreme stress through 2011/2012 I developed a swollen hand, that was stiff and painful. It wasn't an injury and lasted almost a year, so it seemed like arthritis to me. Large doses of pregnenolone and progesterone reversed it, and I haven't had any recurrence of any symptoms for a year or two. I'm relatively young though, so it may not be so easy for others.

Here's a quote from one of Peat's articles:

"While hypothyroidism makes the body require more cortisone to sustain blood sugar and energy production, it also limits the ability to produce cortisone, so in some cases stress produces symptoms resulting from a deficiency of cortisone, including various forms of arthritis and more generalized types of chronic inflammation."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... tion.shtml

answered 3 hours ago by Bryan
 

Kray

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
959
Haagendazendiane said:
Just saw this post by Bryan on Peatarian site-

Basically any condition cortisone shots are used for, you can use thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone instead. Peat seems to think arthritis a sort of steroid deficiency.

Under extreme stress through 2011/2012 I developed a swollen hand, that was stiff and painful. It wasn't an injury and lasted almost a year, so it seemed like arthritis to me. Large doses of pregnenolone and progesterone reversed it, and I haven't had any recurrence of any symptoms for a year or two. I'm relatively young though, so it may not be so easy for others.

Here's a quote from one of Peat's articles:

"While hypothyroidism makes the body require more cortisone to sustain blood sugar and energy production, it also limits the ability to produce cortisone, so in some cases stress produces symptoms resulting from a deficiency of cortisone, including various forms of arthritis and more generalized types of chronic inflammation."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ti ... tion.shtml

answered 3 hours ago by Bryan

Hi H-D,

Thanks for the great information and sharing of your experience with adding stuff that helped your arthritic symptoms.
My chronic dermatitis (eczema?) has me looking at what I'm missing besides food :). So, reading your post, I'm looking back again at pregnenolone, progesterone, magnesium and maybe vitamin E.

While I don't have arthritic symptoms as you did, wouldn't a chronic skin dryness and inflammation be much like arthritis in its inflammatory expression? If I assumed this, and nothing I've done so far has seemed to work (extra B vitamins, vitamin A-- in fact, I think I took too much, so now I'm almost fearful of taking any supplements and have backed off everything except about 400mg magnesium per day, some progesterone, and 400IU vitamin E), how much pregnenolone, progesterone, and magnesium would you suggest I take? By the way, I don't take thyroid at this point and I know that dry skin can be a sign of hypo, but my temps and pulse are pretty near normal. I probably hover just below 98.6 throughout the day, but my waking temps are normal.

Talking about progesterone using Progest-E and realizing it is highly individual, it is also difficult to visualize dosage. Can I ask how much you used daily when you were having your arthritic symptoms? Can you estimate in teaspoon equivalent? Same for pregnenolone and magnesium?

Now, having said I don't do thyroid, I am willing to try because the dermatitis has become so tenacious and chronic. So, I have ordered a supply of Thiroyd. It has been almost a month and still haven't received it. Would you suggest a starting dose?

Thanks for your help once again.

C-Lady
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,028
Hi C-lady,

From Peatarian.com email exchange-

Eczema
"Is he getting enough calcium? Liver and thyroid would be better than trying to use separate vitamins---vitamin A deficiency is the most likely, but some B vitamins could be involved, and a vitamin A supplement can increase the need for thyroid hormone, which is increased anyway during the winter."

According to Ray Peat, thyroid and liver would be better for eczema than the supplements. I use cynoplus/cynomel, so I followed Ray Peat's instructions when I began. Broda Barnes says that a safe starting dose for a teenager or adult is one grain daily. I am not sure how that translates to the thyroid you ordered.

As far as my arthritic symptoms, they passed quickly. The post above was from Bryan on peatarian.com. Sorry for the confusion. I recently started taking Progest-e again. I am using 3-6 drops at bedtime and sometimes a few drops during the day. I may not have ever used an adequate amount to "see" results. Since I am post-menopausal, I don't have the obvious estrogen dominance symptoms. As I read more of Peat's estrogen articles (or reread), I am more confident in using progesterone.
I have used 50-100 mg of pregnenolone in the past. I currently take 70 mg (size of the scoop) once or twice a week.
I take about 150 mg. of magnesium citrate occasionally. I don't tolerate supplemental magnesium well.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,790
Hi H-D,

Thanks for the great information and sharing of your experience with adding stuff that helped your arthritic symptoms.
My chronic dermatitis (eczema?) has me looking at what I'm missing besides food :). So, reading your post, I'm looking back again at pregnenolone, progesterone, magnesium and maybe vitamin E.

While I don't have arthritic symptoms as you did, wouldn't a chronic skin dryness and inflammation be much like arthritis in its inflammatory expression? If I assumed this, and nothing I've done so far has seemed to work (extra B vitamins, vitamin A-- in fact, I think I took too much, so now I'm almost fearful of taking any supplements and have backed off everything except about 400mg magnesium per day, some progesterone, and 400IU vitamin E), how much pregnenolone, progesterone, and magnesium would you suggest I take? By the way, I don't take thyroid at this point and I know that dry skin can be a sign of hypo, but my temps and pulse are pretty near normal. I probably hover just below 98.6 throughout the day, but my waking temps are normal.

Talking about progesterone using Progest-E and realizing it is highly individual, it is also difficult to visualize dosage. Can I ask how much you used daily when you were having your arthritic symptoms? Can you estimate in teaspoon equivalent? Same for pregnenolone and magnesium?

Now, having said I don't do thyroid, I am willing to try because the dermatitis has become so tenacious and chronic. So, I have ordered a supply of Thiroyd. It has been almost a month and still haven't received it. Would you suggest a starting dose?

Thanks for your help once again.

C-Lady

was curious to hear how you were doing today.
 

dookie

Member
Joined
May 5, 2015
Messages
517
I'm only 28, but deal with terribly arthritic fingers and hands. Some fingers are even bowing in. It's never kept me up at night, but now it is.

Any ideas on this? I supplement with Vit D.

Anecdotally, I have seen mildly arthritic fingers become straight after a single dose of progesterone (about 50 mg). Have you tried progesterone or pregnenolone? I also think coffee may have some value as a therapy
 

skycop00

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
423
Location
Florida
I would look at a trial dose of hydrocortisone. I have had great success with physiological doses make life changing general improvement, even with itger auto immune issues. The low dose trial works synergistically with thyroid. To view one and ignore the other is a mistake I feel
 

skycop00

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
423
Location
Florida
That may be why so many see.positive results with pregnenolone and or progesterone which feed cirtisol pathway
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
Doludolu Feet Fingers Slight Redness, Itching, Joint Mild Pain - CAUSES? Symptoms, Causes 0
P Skin On Fingers Shedding After Bacterial Infection Of Throat (Strep Throat?) Testimonials 5
Amazoniac The Non-slippery Hand: Fingers Wrinkling From Water Might Be Intentional Symptoms, Causes 1
ddjd Numbness In All My Fingers! Ask For Help or Advice 18
S Hair On Fingers Growing, Is This Is A Good Sign? Hair & Nails 32
M Fingers Became Weak. One Is Puffyish-painful Ask For Help or Advice 7
L Sore Scalp, Sore & Tingling Fingers. Advice Needed Eyes, Ears, Nose and Headaches/Migraines 0
seano Pruney Fingers (aka Water-immersion Wrinkling) Skin 2
I Morning Dizziness, Numb Fingers, Fainting, Heart Pain Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure 14
S warm body temp, nose and hands, cold feet? Metabolism 18
lvysaur Do You Wash Your Hands Thoroughly After Raw Meat? Body Care 19
Ben. System Health Issue (cold Hands/feet, Tinnitus, Eyes, Hair Etc.) - Help/Advice Needed Ask For Help or Advice 9
Julian Waking Up With 'sleeping' Hands (numb And Tingling) Insomnia, Sleep Issues 15
GorillaHead Salt Loading Induced Acute Hyperhidrosis And Cold Hands Why! Ask For Help or Advice 27
L Tingling Hands/feet Metabolism 18
I High Adrenaline? Wake Up Pretty Warm But Cold Hands And Feet Right After Coffee Or Bf Metabolism 7
J Cold-ish Hands And Feet But Warm Body Metabolism 23
C Feel Cold With Cold Hands And Feet But Normal Temp? Ask For Help or Advice 3
F Chilling Hands Ask For Help or Advice 6
Orangeyouglad Cold Hands And Feet In The Afternoon Ask For Help or Advice 3
K What's The Reason For Hands Getting Warm After Eating Eggs? Ask For Help or Advice 1
paulwalkerrip Lower Back And Belly Are Always Very Warm, Hands And Feet Often Cold Ask For Help or Advice 13
I Philly Jury Hands Johnson & Johnson $8 Billion Verdict In Risperdal Case Over Male Breast Growth Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
_lppaiva Too Much Protein? Cold Hands, Low Temperature And Corspe-like Heart Rate Metabolism 14
J Zinc Causing Cold Hands/feet? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 16
Francisco Cold Hands/feet Diet 0
R Hands And Feet Getting Warmer On Full Fat Milk Metabolism 19
P Body Tremors, Shaky Hands Ask For Help or Advice 2
C Blue Hands/feet, Immune Dysfunction, Low Platelets, Low RBC/Hb, Low Testosterone And HCG Ask For Help or Advice 9
M Cold Hands/Feet And Sweat After Eating Ask For Help or Advice 3
T Magnesium Making Hands And Feet Freezing Cold. High Cortisol? Supplements 3
R Warm Hands Ask For Help or Advice 0
D Warm Hands But Not With Pinky Fingertips Skin 14
M New To Peating - Cold Hands And Feet/ Trying To Lose Weight Diet 23
ecstatichamster Did Anything Relieve Your Shaky Hands (especially One Sided Shakiness) Ask For Help or Advice 13
thms Cold Hands From Milk? Milk 14
x-ray peat Tingling In Hands And Arms When Sleeping Ask For Help or Advice 4
A Freezing Hands And Bad Sleep Metabolism 5
A.R Coffee Gives Me Cold Hands/feet Ask For Help or Advice 7
T By Heat And/or Hands (Dandruff/Shedding) Hair & Nails 0
U Cold Hands & Feet During The Day But Overall Warm/hot At Night - What Does This Mean? Metabolism 6
L Swollen Hands Body Care 1
M How To Make Redlightman Devices Hands-free Red Light, Infrared, LLLT 5
M L-lysine Causing Cold Hands Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 6
L Waking With Muscle Pain, Constant Cold Hands, Brain Fog, Lack Of Motivation, Cyprohept. And Thyroid Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 18
Y Do cold hands almost always mean hypothyroidism? Synthetic Thyroid 2
milk_lover Iodized salt made my feet and hands exceptionally warm -- what gives? Diet 25
R Liquids and cold hands/feet. Beverages, Fruits, Sugars 7
R Cold Hands And Exaggerated Vasoconstrictive Response After Drinking OJ+Milk Diet 29
D Cramps in hands in feet Ask For Help or Advice 2

Similar threads

Top