Arrade's Journey To Fixing HypoThyroidism

[Arrade]

Hello

I was going to wait until I cured my hairloss to start fixing hypothyroidism. Well my hairloss has gotten bad enough I want to shave, so why wait! Also, I'm starting to think it is the progenitor of my hair issues.

Here's what some friends have shared with me to improve their hypothyroidism (less TSH over time, better temps and energy):

12.5 mg Lugol's Iodine
200 mcg Selenium
450 mg ashwaganda
400 mg Magnesium

Things I'm considering adding to this:
Methylene Blue 1-2 drops in water
Vit E (all forms)

These would be used everyday and would be added specifically to aid in thyroid function.
To start off I'm on levothyroxine 137 mcg; I plan to medicate and use these and slowly get off meds.

I will continue to update, feel free to add your suggestions.

 

[Arrade]

 

[Andman]

youre on 137mcg T4 only? ever tried adding T3/switching to T3 only?

 

[Arrade]

youre on 137mcg T4 only? ever tried adding T3/switching to T3 only?

I’ve never tried T4. Mainly I do not because my conversion of T4 to T3 seems to be fine;
I’ve also read a study that T4 was needed for hair growth.
T4 is also the only thing I think a conventional doctor would prescribe.

 

[Andman]

If your conversion is fine why the need to fix hypothyroidism? T4 only causes worsening of symptoms for many, many people. Feel ya on the doctor issue, fortunately nowadays we can help ourselves using the internet :)

 

[Arrade]

If your conversion is fine why the need to fix hypothyroidism? T4 only causes worsening of symptoms for many, many people. Feel ya on the doctor issue, fortunately nowadays we can help ourselves using the internet :)

My conversion is fine but my thyroid is still very weak, my tsh >10 without medication. I haven't really gotten any trouble from T4, to be fair I've never taken NDT or T3 but according to my bloods I get enough T3 from taking T4.

 

[Andman]

Whats your TSH on T4? Temps/Pulse etc.?
Remember that T4 is the one that can be converted to reverse T3 under stress, blocking T3 uptake even when T3 blood levels are fine

 

[Wagner83]

Remember that T4 is the one that can be converted to reverse T3 under stress, blocking T3 uptake even when T3 blood levels are fine

There must be a reason for the body to do this, also I was wondering if using t3 during the day can make the body convert its own t4 into rt3 because it senses the presence of the t3. @aguilaroja Do you have any thoughts on this? Are small doses of t3 during the day benign besides watching for hyperthyroid symptoms?

 

[Arrade]

My TSH (only thing I tested) most recently was:
1.8 TSH on 137 mcg Levothyroxine
Mid-Day Temp 98.4

Last time I got it tested (on 115 mcg)
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)3rd Gen 3.090 u(iU) /mL 0.27 - 4.20 u(iU)/mL
FREE T3 4.24 pmol /L 3.10 - 6.80 pmol/L
Free T4 1.50 ng /dL 0.93 - 1.70 ng/dL

So when I was on a lower dose, my TSH was 3 but I still have T3 at 4.24, within range.
So I should have even higher T3 now, I don't know if there is anything besides Free T3 I need to check.

 

[Andman]

There must be a reason for the body to do this, also I was wondering if using t3 during the day can make the body convert its own t4 into rt3 because it senses the presence of the t3. @aguilaroja Do you have any thoughts on this? Are small doses of t3 during the day benign besides watching for hyperthyroid symptoms?

Well the body will turn off the thyroid if exogenous thyroid hormones are used, however it comes back a lot faster than for example the hpta after a steroid cycle. (around 7-14 days). Personally i never really got the "nibbling on frequent small doses of t3 during the day" to work properly. However, prevalent opinion online (see Stop the Thyroid madness website, Dr. wilsons t3 protocol etc.) is that T3 only supplementation will over time clear reverse T3 from receptor sites and result in improved metabolism on top of the usual T3 benefits.

 

[Vinero]

Ray has talked about the connection between prolactin, PTH, and hair loss. He also said calcium, vitamin D, progesterone, vitamin E, caffeine etc which lower prolactin can help with hair loss. Ofcourse thyroid can also work if you can find the right dose for you since it lowers prolactin.

 

[Andman]

My TSH (only thing I tested) most recently was:
1.8 TSH on 137 mcg Levothyroxine
Mid-Day Temp 98.4

Last time I got it tested (on 115 mcg)
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)3rd Gen 3.090 u(iU) /mL 0.27 - 4.20 u(iU)/mL
FREE T3 4.24 pmol /L 3.10 - 6.80 pmol/L
Free T4 1.50 ng /dL 0.93 - 1.70 ng/dL

So when I was on a lower dose, my TSH was 3 but I still have T3 at 4.24, within range.
So I should have even higher T3 now, I don't know if there is anything besides Free T3 I need to check.

Labs look decent enough, but at 100+mcg of exogenous thyroid hormone they should look a lot better, IMHO. Still think adding T3 would be good. Any other hypo symptoms except hairloss?

 

[Jsaute21]

Ray has talked about the connection between prolactin, PTH, and hair loss. He also said calcium, vitamin D, progesterone, vitamin E, caffeine etc which lower prolactin can help with hair loss. Ofcourse thyroid can also work if you can find the right dose for you since it lowers prolactin.

Do you take thyroid? Just curious as i take a small amount and am going to try and ween off.

 

[Vinero]

Do you take thyroid? Just curious as i take a small amount and am going to try and ween off.

No I have never taken thyroid. I do take most other things that increase thyroid function and stimulate metabolism such as Caffeine, Aspirin, Methylene blue, Vitamin A,D,E,K, Progesterone, DHEA etc.

 

[Wagner83]

Do you take thyroid? Just curious as i take a small amount and am going to try and ween off.

Why if I may ask?

 

[Jsaute21]

Why if I may ask?

Because i get good effects from it as well as bad effects, especially from Cynoplus (T3/T4 combo.) Good effects are: Increase in workout performance, work focus and comprehension, overall sex drive. Bad effects are: Irritability occasionally, allergies have gotten worse, Over heated sometimes to an annoying degree, Boosts metabolism enough where toxins are sweated out or result in bad breath type symptoms etc. I should add that there is a chance that I don't eat enough on it, though I eat a sufficient amount. I have always shed fat easily even when i had hypothyroid symptoms, so i may be someone that needs 3500-4 k calories when using it. I don't overdose it what so ever so some of the narrative above may be unfairly put on thyroid supplementation, but i am not in love with it even though temps & pulse are a little low without it.

 

[aguilaroja]

Well the body will turn off the thyroid if exogenous thyroid hormones are used, however it comes back a lot faster than for example the hpta after a steroid cycle. (around 7-14 days). Personally i never really got the "nibbling on frequent small doses of t3 during the day" to work properly. However, prevalent opinion online (see Stop the Thyroid madness website, Dr. wilsons t3 protocol etc.) is that T3 only supplementation will over time clear reverse T3 from receptor sites and result in improved metabolism on top of the usual T3 benefits.

There must be a reason for the body to do this, also I was wondering if using t3 during the day can make the body convert its own t4 into rt3 because it senses the presence of the t3. @aguilaroja Do you have any thoughts on this? Are small doses of t3 during the day benign besides watching for hyperthyroid symptoms?

The question, IIUC as posed is, “Will adding a bit of T3 in the presence of abundant T4 increase the conversion of the abundant T4 into even more excess rT3 (reverse T3)?”

Generally no, a little added T3 would not worsen rT3 effects. rT3 is taken to be a competitive inhibitor of the conversion of T4 to the active T3.
Enzyme kinetic and substrate-binding studies of the thyroxine to 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine converting enzyme in the rat liver microsomal fraction. - PubMed - NCBI

Boosting T3 (non-reverse T3 :^> ) would effectively deliver more T3, partially “overcoming” the reduced conversion caused by rT3. Since T3 itself boosts metabolism, it would likely further support its own better T4 to T3 conversion in peripheral tissues like liver, muscle and brain.

As @Andman points out, STTM and Denis-Wilson-long-acting-T3 protocols somewhat echo this view. I am familiar with these approaches, but do not necessarily advocate them beyond responding to this specific query.

Repeating a view in other posts, it is always helping for a person suspecting low thyroid function to carefully follow their own symptoms and signs. Adjusting only by blood tests is less informative.

Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.
“Stress, besides suppressing the TSH, acts in other ways to suppress the real thyroid function. Cortisol, for example, inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3, which is responsible for the respiratory production of energy and carbon dioxide. Adrenaline, besides leading to increased production of cortisol, is lipolytic, releasing the fatty acids which, if they are polyunsaturated, inhibit the production and transport of thyroid hormone, and also interfere directly with the respiratory functions of the mitochondria. Adrenaline decreases the conversion to T4 to T3, and increases the formation of the antagonistic reverse T3 (Nauman, et al., 1980, 1984).”

 

[Arrade]

Labs look decent enough, but at 100+mcg of exogenous thyroid hormone they should look a lot better, IMHO. Still think adding T3 would be good. Any other hypo symptoms except hairloss?

Yes cold hands and feet.
I'm seeing a need to add T3; those labs were on a lower dose too

 

[Wagner83]

The question, IIUC as posed is, “Will adding a bit of T3 in the presence of abundant T4 increase the conversion of the abundant T4 into even more excess rT3 (reverse T3)?”

Generally no, a little added T3 would not worsen rT3 effects. rT3 is taken to be a competitive inhibitor of the conversion of T4 to the active T3.
Enzyme kinetic and substrate-binding studies of the thyroxine to 3,5,3'-triiodothyronine converting enzyme in the rat liver microsomal fraction. - PubMed - NCBI

Boosting T3 (non-reverse T3 :^> ) would effectively deliver more T3, partially “overcoming” the reduced conversion caused by rT3. Since T3 itself boosts metabolism, it would likely further support its own better T4 to T3 conversion in peripheral tissues like liver, muscle and brain.

As @Andman points out, STTM and Denis-Wilson-long-acting-T3 protocols somewhat echo this view. I am familiar with these approaches, but do not necessarily advocate them beyond responding to this specific query.

Repeating a view in other posts, it is always helping for a person suspecting low thyroid function to carefully follow their own symptoms and signs. Adjusting only by blood tests is less informative.

Preventing and treating cancer with progesterone.
“Stress, besides suppressing the TSH, acts in other ways to suppress the real thyroid function. Cortisol, for example, inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3, which is responsible for the respiratory production of energy and carbon dioxide. Adrenaline, besides leading to increased production of cortisol, is lipolytic, releasing the fatty acids which, if they are polyunsaturated, inhibit the production and transport of thyroid hormone, and also interfere directly with the respiratory functions of the mitochondria. Adrenaline decreases the conversion to T4 to T3, and increases the formation of the antagonistic reverse T3 (Nauman, et al., 1980, 1984).”

Thanks it's always nice to read your posts! Do you mean you do not advocate the nibbling of t3 during the day or just the long-acting t3? What would you see as more ideal? An approach without direct supplementation of exogenous hormones unless there's a dire need for them?

 

[aguilaroja]

...Do you mean you do not advocate the nibbling of t3 during the day or just the long-acting t3? What would you see as more ideal? An approach without direct supplementation of exogenous hormones unless there's a dire need for them?

The intent was simply to evade long debates about the STTM and Denis Wilson/rT3-Wilson’s-syndrome approaches. Those methods have their advocates. My experience more closely matches ideas described by Dr. Peat. Some overlapping working ideas I arrived at independently. So I attend more to this kind of site.

Practically speaking, some hesitations about thyroid are because how supplemental thyroid is regulated. Physicians must prescribe it for humans to receive it, unless persons find work-a-rounds. It is difficult for most to explore beyond the orthodox prescribing.

I wish to give @Arrade his full due in describing his journey and tracking responses.

Briefly, my experience is, when thyroid supplementation is indicated, it is helpful to use some T3 divided during the day, along with T4. (In transitioning, it seems sensible to accordingly lower the T4 quantity when adding T3.)Contrary to observations in other posts, I have known some people (far from a majority) who over the short term (months) have done OK-ish with T4 only. I have encountered many long-term T4-only users whose lingering symptoms were quickly relieved by adding T3.

While the idea of nibbling a few milligrams of T3 every couple of hours may be useful, almost nobody does this consistently even when desperate. It seems generally more useful to aim for dividing T3 amounts into about 4 times per day. Most appear to follow that approximately.

There can be risk for any substance, even water/salt/oxygen. The functional margin of safety for small thyroid doses seems much larger than for medications physicians use routinely, and for many OTC substances. Due to many widespread metabolism-impairing influences, many folk can find rapid relief by boosting thyroid function promptly.

(Preparing to get flamed.)