Aromatase Inhibitors

haidut

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YuraCZ said:
Bodybuilders have a really simple solution for estrogen. They simply take http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase_inhibitor
Why Peat don't recomend this drug and overthinking this issue so hard. :confused

I think Peat would be OK with the idea of taking AI, however most of them have very nasty side effects. Peat recommends progesterone for controlling estrogen, and progesterone happens to be a powerful AI as well as estrogen receptor antagonist.
 

haidut

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piotr_zarach said:
What is safer: Proviron (for men), armidex for women or to be estrogen dominance ?

I'd say AI drugs are the safest or more accurately - least dangerous. An AI drug like anastrozole does not affect the liver and AFAIK has not been shown to cause any serious long term damage. The most common side effects are joint pain, fatigue, and maybe weakness. Most other steroid drugs like Proviron will probably cause elevated liver enzymes. If you are going to supplement with steroids you may as well go for the bioidentical hormones. Ray said taking about 5mg testosterone or DHT would be OK.
 

haidut

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YuraCZ said:
Proviron is really weak drug...

I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.
 

sladerunner69

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haidut said:
YuraCZ said:
Proviron is really weak drug...

I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.



Hmm well I have low T and DHT which is mostly a neurotranmitter/receptor based issue. From taking 5-AR inhibitors a few years ago. My condition of androgenic insensitivity gets better gradually but I would love some help. I just don't want to further screw myself up in the process.

What do you know about these dopaminergic drugs like lisuride and cabergoline? I've read they can pose some pretty severe side effects themselves. Has anyone tried them?
 

haidut

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sladerunner69 said:
post 82056
haidut said:
YuraCZ said:
Proviron is really weak drug...

I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.



Hmm well I have low T and DHT which is mostly a neurotranmitter/receptor based issue. From taking 5-AR inhibitors a few years ago. My condition of androgenic insensitivity gets better gradually but I would love some help. I just don't want to further screw myself up in the process.

What do you know about these dopaminergic drugs like lisuride and cabergoline? I've read they can pose some pretty severe side effects themselves. Has anyone tried them?

Did you search the forum for cabergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, etc? There are a few studies posted on them. While all of these drugs are LSD derivatives, lisuride is probably the safest followed by bromocriptine. All of these drugs have been shown to reverse central hypogonadism.
 
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BingDing

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Not to be too much of a twit, but cabergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, and LSD are ergot derivatives.

As E. O. Wilson wrote (in Consilience), there is a Chinese saying that the path to wisdom starts with calling things by their right names. The idea is vaguely satisfying to me.

Carry on.
 

sladerunner69

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haidut said:
post 105300
sladerunner69 said:
post 82056
haidut said:
YuraCZ said:
Proviron is really weak drug...

I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.



Hmm well I have low T and DHT which is mostly a neurotranmitter/receptor based issue. From taking 5-AR inhibitors a few years ago. My condition of androgenic insensitivity gets better gradually but I would love some help. I just don't want to further screw myself up in the process.

What do you know about these dopaminergic drugs like lisuride and cabergoline? I've read they can pose some pretty severe side effects themselves. Has anyone tried them?

Did you search the forum for cabergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, etc? There are a few studies posted on them. While all of these drugs are LSD derivatives, lisuride is probably the safest followed by bromocriptine. All of these drugs have been shown to reverse central hypogonadism.



LSD based? Very interesting. Wouldn't they be more applicable in a dopamine/serotonin context? Or does that also increase androgens somewhere down the line? I'll have to do some more research before I feel comfortable going through with something that is a "LSD derivitive". I take large doses of LSD everyday and it is NOT something I would recommend to ANYONE (kidding)
 
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haidut

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sladerunner69 said:
post 105354
haidut said:
post 105300
sladerunner69 said:
post 82056
haidut said:
YuraCZ said:
Proviron is really weak drug...

I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.



Hmm well I have low T and DHT which is mostly a neurotranmitter/receptor based issue. From taking 5-AR inhibitors a few years ago. My condition of androgenic insensitivity gets better gradually but I would love some help. I just don't want to further screw myself up in the process.

What do you know about these dopaminergic drugs like lisuride and cabergoline? I've read they can pose some pretty severe side effects themselves. Has anyone tried them?

Did you search the forum for cabergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, etc? There are a few studies posted on them. While all of these drugs are LSD derivatives, lisuride is probably the safest followed by bromocriptine. All of these drugs have been shown to reverse central hypogonadism.



LSD based? Very interesting. Wouldn't they be more applicable in a dopamine/serotonin context? Or does that also increase androgens somewhere down the line? I'll have to do some more research before I feel comfortable going through with something that is a "LSD derivitive". I take large doses of LSD everyday and it is NOT something I would recommend to ANYONE (kidding)

The less serotonin in your brain the more testosterone and DHT you will produce. The gonad synthesis is controlled by the brain and its health (unless there is local trauma to the gonads). Dopamine and dopamine agonists, being inhibitors of TPH, lower brain serotonin. Hence the effects of all the drugs I mentioned above. While they are all LSD derivatives they do not have any hallucinogenic effects.
The drug fenclonine, which can deplete brain serotonin close to 100%, turns animals and humans into such hypersexual beasts that they seem to try to hump everything regardless of sex, genus, etc. I have seen reports of rats trying to hump cats while on Fenclonine. This tells you how high their dopamine and testosterone were.
 
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sladerunner69

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BingDing said:
post 105339 Not to be too much of a twit, but cabergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, and LSD are ergot derivatives.

As E. O. Wilson wrote (in Consilience), there is a Chinese saying that the path to wisdom starts with calling things by their right names. The idea is vaguely satisfying to me.

Carry on.


LSD was developed decades before the others was it not? These more amenable drugs came about later on as a result of the demonization of psychedelics and because the benefits of low-serotonin, pro-dopamine are too good even for the US pharmaceutical industry to pass up on.
 
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sladerunner69

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haidut said:
post 105377
sladerunner69 said:
post 105354
haidut said:
post 105300
sladerunner69 said:
post 82056
haidut said:
YuraCZ said:
Proviron is really weak drug...

I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.



Hmm well I have low T and DHT which is mostly a neurotranmitter/receptor based issue. From taking 5-AR inhibitors a few years ago. My condition of androgenic insensitivity gets better gradually but I would love some help. I just don't want to further screw myself up in the process.

What do you know about these dopaminergic drugs like lisuride and cabergoline? I've read they can pose some pretty severe side effects themselves. Has anyone tried them?

Did you search the forum for cabergoline, bromocriptine, lisuride, etc? There are a few studies posted on them. While all of these drugs are LSD derivatives, lisuride is probably the safest followed by bromocriptine. All of these drugs have been shown to reverse central hypogonadism.



LSD based? Very interesting. Wouldn't they be more applicable in a dopamine/serotonin context? Or does that also increase androgens somewhere down the line? I'll have to do some more research before I feel comfortable going through with something that is a "LSD derivitive". I take large doses of LSD everyday and it is NOT something I would recommend to ANYONE (kidding)

The less serotonin in your brain the more testosterone and DHT you will produce. The gonad synthesis is controlled by the brain and its health (unless there is local trauma to the gonads). Dopamine and dopamine agonists, being inhibitors of TPH, lower brain serotonin. Hence the effects of all the drugs I mentioned above. While they are all LSD derivatives they do not have any hallucinogenic effects.
The drug fenclonine, which can deplete brain serotonin close to 100%, turns animals and humans into such hypersexual beasts that they seem to try to hump everything regardless of sex, genus, etc. I have seen reports of rats trying to hump cats while on Fenclonine. This tells you how high their dopamine and testosterone were.



I see! Im grateful you told me about a drug that can turn animals and humans into hyper-sexual beasts. Are there studies supporting this with human participants?

LSD achieves its effect through the same route does it not? Through depletion of brain serotonin? No one has ever described acid as a libido booster to me. Pre much the opposite actually. I will have to try some of these so called "ergot derivitives" though Im not certain where I would aquire them. Perhaps an online pharmacy?

Caffiene as an estrogen blocker is nice but wouldn't taking an anti aromatase like clomid be more effective as it blocks the conversion of T to E initially, thus raising T levels and lowering E levels... instead of just mitigation.
 
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Bulletproof?

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I am trying to avoid turning this thread into a discussion about steroids, mostly used by bodybuilders. As I said in another thread, if your hormones are low it's likely due to neurotransmitter issue. The brain controls metabolism and all steroid synthesis. So, if your T or DHT are low then you probably have high prolactin and/or serotonin. I posted studies showing that taking a dopaminergic drug like cabergoline or lisuride results in complete normalization of steroid synthesis, including lowering estrogen. So, in theory, taking a low dose lisuride, bromocriptine, or cabergoline would be much safer for normalizing steroid production and will also have the added benefit of normalizing neurotransmitters as well. Of course anybody is free to take what they want. I am just expressing my opinion that messing with steroid directly is usually not safe unless you are talking about pregnenolone and/or DHEA.
Just my 2c.
@haidut do you have any idea how long it takes to feel the effects of cabergoline? I have been taking 1mg per week and 4mg per day of DHT cream for about 2 weeks now and yet I feel NOTHING! No libido at all. Does it take time to work? Should I raise my dosage?
 

skycop00

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I have been on TRT in one form or another for 12 years. The last 7 have been on testosterone cypionate 2x per week @ 70mg per injection. I add in hcg and anastrozole @ .25 mg 2x per week. If I knew then what I know now, I would have tried other fixes first.
I am now researching for a plan to attempt a re-start and get off testosterone. Most likely I will not be pleased with my numbers and how I feel, but I am committed to giving it a go....
 
T

tobieagle

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There are now several reports from people who have lowered their prolactin with bromocriptine or cabergoline significantly without noticing positive effects.

I have been on TRT in one form or another for 12 years. The last 7 have been on testosterone cypionate 2x per week @ 70mg. I add in hcg and anastrozole @ .25 mg 2x pee week. If I knew then what I know biw, I would have tried other fixes first.

Because the treatment is bothersome or because of negative side effects?
 

skycop00

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There are now several reports from people who have lowered their prolactin with bromocriptine or cabergoline significantly without noticing positive effects.



Because the treatment is bothersome or because of negative side effects?
I just feel that somehow all my screwing around with my HPTA is not good for me in the long run. I'm very use to the routine, but now I question what this manipulation is doing for my mortality. I mean I may crash and burn, but I can always jump back on trt.
 

skycop00

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There are now several reports from people who have lowered their prolactin with bromocriptine or cabergoline significantly without noticing positive effects.



Because the treatment is bothersome or because of negative side effects?
The hardest part in nailing estrogen down. My barometer is always REM Sleep Wood...erections. That's how I know I am dialed in.
 

Bulletproof?

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The hardest part in nailing estrogen down. My barometer is always REM Sleep Wood...erections. That's how I know I am dialed in.
What have you done to lower estrogen? I drink coffee, take aspirin, niacinimide, vitamin E, and DHT cream, but I don't have morning wood or hard erections. Also, REM is not very often. Do you use anything different?
 

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