Arizona Cop Acquitted For Killing Man Crawling While Begging For His Life

Peater

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As a Brit i can't get over being asked to do all this at the business end of a gun. He must have been terrified and possibly in shock no matter how rationally he answered the questions
 

Regina

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No belt and jeans. Because Officer Brailsford just felt like issuing that command, and it in no way reflects his training and protocol for immobilizing a potential assailant.

He just has a hard-on for getting people to point their hands straight up in the air and cross their ankles, and he just throws in, "You think you're gonna fall, you better fall on your face!" for shits and giggles, and certainly not because it's a frequent occurrence that individuals will fall in lieu of physical support from their arms and feet.
It's called shikko (which is very easily taught from day 1), but it's hard to believe it would be intuitive.
 

Peater

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Btw I'm not anti or pro gun, they are tools to be used when circumstances permit. The cop could have bashed his skull in with a hammer. Same result
 

theLaw

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I saw the video and he put his hands behind his back after being asked not to and AFTER he had already threatened the people at the hotel with a rifle.

It sucks watching someone die but this guy was asking for it

He didn't threaten anyone at the hotel with the rifle.

Did you even read the actual facts of the case or are you just trolling?
 

theLaw

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As a Brit i can't get over being asked to do all this at the business end of a gun. He must have been terrified and possibly in shock no matter how rationally he answered the questions

Don't forget that he was also intoxicated.
 

Regina

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As a Brit i can't get over being asked to do all this at the business end of a gun. He must have been terrified and possibly in shock no matter how rationally he answered the questions
Yep. My father was a cop (retired around the time I was born) and was notorious for being the guy who says, "lemme go in and talk to him"; and then they would walk out calm together like old friends. He never drew his weapon in his entire career. (NYPD Manhattan Borough) Different times for sure. I'm sure there were plenty of bad cops then too but the art of de-escalation was encouraged.
 

haidut

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As many commented, how can one ask to cross your legs, keep your arms up in the air then to crawl up in a given direction?

How's that even humanly possible?

Why not just ask him how much is 26 multiplied by 77, and if the answer's wrong, we're going to shoot.

If you read the discussion on Reddit, where former and current cops chime in, apparently police are trained specifically to give confusing orders in order to...confuse you and keep you from collecting your thoughts and maybe fighting back.
Mesa Police shooting: Daniel Shaver seen crawling, begging in disturbing video • r/politics
R.I.P. Daniel Shaver • r/BlackPeopleTwitter

The (wrong) theory is that a confused person is less of a threat than a calm, collected individual who can come up with a way to hurt the cops. Laughable, I know.
 

Peater

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Yep. My father was a cop (retired around the time I was born) and was notorious for being the guy who says, "lemme go in and talk to him"; and then they would walk out calm together like old friends. He never drew his weapon in his entire career. (NYPD Manhattan Borough) Different times for sure. I'm sure there were plenty of bad cops then too but the art of de-escalation was encouraged.

Armed or not the world could use more of that attitude
 

theLaw

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If you read the discussion on Reddit, where former and current cops chime in, apparently police are trained specifically to give confusing orders in order to...confuse you and keep you from collecting your thoughts and maybe fighting back.
Mesa Police shooting: Daniel Shaver seen crawling, begging in disturbing video • r/politics
R.I.P. Daniel Shaver • r/BlackPeopleTwitter

The (wrong) theory is that a confused person is less of a threat than a calm, collected individual who can come up with a way to hurt the cops. Laughable, I know.

To be fair, you're referring to a criminal organization by any definition (monopoly on violence, theft (civil asset forfeiture), legal deception, etc), so this practice would fall pretty far down that list.
 

Regina

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Armed or not the world could use more of that attitude
Absolutely. It drove my mom crazy. Because he would make sure the perpetrator got to the station safely and learn about them and then do things for their family. (like put in a new refrigerator, toilet, fix something on their mother's car, look after their little brother). Then, he would be able to communicate to the incarcerated how their family was doing.......
He would come home and say, "we're having Manny's Chicken tonight!" off of how the guy told him he liked his chicken.......
 

haidut

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To be fair, you're referring to a criminal organization by any definition (monopoly on violence, theft (civil asset forfeiture), legal deception, etc), so this practice would fall pretty far down that list.

I know, not defending them. Just saying that the confusing instruction were given on purpose and actually provided as training. It was not just "one bad apple" as we hear every time.
 
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It is obvious to anyone who saw that video that when the young women and young man came walking out of the hotel room that they were unarmed. Moreover they fully complied as best they could to a trigger happy bunch of PTSD suffering psychopaths who repeatedly said they were going to kill him if he made any mistakes. wtf. So not following instructions is grounds for murder now.

but more importantly you need to get your facts straight. The guy had no ties to ISIS and this happened well before the Vegas shooting so dont tell me they were worried about any mass shooting. Also there is no way they could have been certain that they had the right room. They didnt witness the gun out the window and even still its very easy to confuse which room you are looking at from the outside.

This was cold blooded murder, US Army style. These guys got away with killing people for so long without repercussion that they have lost any feeling of sympathy for their fellow human beings. That is how the modern soldier is trained and as I said before they should not be policemen.

Explain to me why the women had no problem following instructions and was secured and arrested with no trouble.
If it's reported thst someone in a hotel is pointing an assault rifle out the window and yelling allah akbar then it's pretty safe to assume he was a self radicalized isis member.

It wasn't murder it was self defense and that was what the court's proved. I don't even know why I'm arguing about this the case is settled
 

burtlancast

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Why the trolling, pimp?
 

theLaw

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If it's reported thst someone in a hotel is pointing an assault rifle out the window and yelling allah akbar then it's pretty safe to assume he was a self radicalized isis member.

Just typed "Daniel Shaver allahu akbar" into google with zero returned results.

100% Trolling.
 

DaveFoster

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I am all about bashing on the leftists, but I think this one has some merit as at least man slaughter. This is not a case where the news says a guy was just reading a book and was shot when in actuality he was waving a gun around.

I think what most people react to is not so much that he was asked to crawl in an awkward way, but that he was actively trying to do what the cop wanted of him, and got shot anyways. The cop seemed to be playing 'simon says'...put you hand up, put it down, turn this way, shake that way. The first time I watched it I really wondered if they were actually trying to get him to slip up and get shot.

I have talked to a couple people about it, and the consensus we came to was that listening to the police was actually about as dangerous as not listening to them in this scenario. This guy would probably be alive if he just laid down and said he did not understand anything. Think about that; better to play dumb and live. If the cop had been convicted of something, then at least that message would be lessened. I know what I am doing though in that situation...staying still and acting retarded. What do you think?
Maybe man slaughter charges would be appropriate, but not murder.

Even with man slaughter, it would be more appropriate if Officer Brailsford shot Mr. Shaver when he dropped his arms. He didn't.

Instead, Officer Brailsford shot him after he reached to his right hip, and he had no idea whether or not this man carried a firearm.

 

Dhair

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Maybe man slaughter charges would be appropriate, but not murder.

Even with man slaughter, it would be more appropriate if Officer Brailsford shot Mr. Shaver when he dropped his arms. He didn't.

Instead, Officer Brailsford shot him after he reached to his right hip, and he had no idea whether or not this man carried a firearm.


The officers in that police department were trained to ignore context. In most circumstances I would agree with you, but the man was wearing basketball shorts. They would know if the weapon was on his person. The commanding officer was so incompetent that he could just as easily have told Brailsford to shoot him if his basketball shorts fell down. I'm not buying the argument that they were just trying to be prepared for anything at any moment. That's borderline autistic. Other police officers have said the same thing. If they were trained to direct a perp to CRAWL towards them in this circumstance, then the training was absolutely incorrect. Standard procedure is to direct the suspect to make their hands visible and walk toward the officers with their back facing them, at which point they can be easily cuffed and arrested. The police department wasn't confident that they had done the right thing in this case. If that were true, then Langley would have never fled to the Philippines.
 

DaveFoster

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The officers in that police department were trained to ignore context. In most circumstances I would agree with you, but the man was wearing basketball shorts. They would know if the weapon was on his person. The commanding officer was so incompetent that he could just as easily have told Brailsford to shoot him if his basketball shorts fell down. I'm not buying the argument that they were just trying to be prepared for anything at any moment. That's borderline autistic. Other police officers have said the same thing. If they were trained to direct a perp to CRAWL towards them in this circumstance, then the training was absolutely incorrect. Standard procedure is to direct the suspect to make their hands visible and walk toward the officers with their back facing them, at which point they can be easily cuffed and arrested. The police department wasn't confident that they had done the right thing in this case. If that were true, then Langley would have never fled to the Philippines.
Mostly good points. It's unreasonable to say that basketball shorts entails no weapon. The man did not expose his back.
 

theLaw

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Mostly good points. It's unreasonable to say that basketball shorts entails no weapon. The man did not expose his back.

It's also important to keep in mind that the cops can't locate the weapon (the one that they were called about) and they don't know if anyone else is in the hotel room.

I also heard on the Carolla podcast that the victim was intoxicated, which could easily explain him reaching for his shorts.

On the other hand, if you allowed me to use these same law-enforcement escalation tactics across the board on the general public, I could probably get you a significant body-count pretty quickly.:eek:
 

Dhair

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Mostly good points. It's unreasonable to say that basketball shorts entails no weapon. The man did not expose his back.
Wouldn't matter if they had used the appropriate protocol.
As far as I'm concerned, this incident was just a bad as the Walter Scott shooting. There is a reason that shooting/stabbing someone in the back has historically been seen as a shameful thing to do. Shooting someone who is several feet away on their hands and knees is equally disgusting. But I suppose that's a matter of opinion.
 
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