Are Vegetables Really That Necessary?

[TheGoogler]

Interesting video I recently watched that focuses on the nutrient and hormonal aspects of consuming vegetables vs. consuming tubers and fruits.

 

[Ras]

The nutritional value of "vegetables" by weight is excellent. Fruits, by weight, have low nutritional value. Tubers, too, don't compare to vegetables, in their nutritional density. As I understand it, some of the video's creator's arguments are semantic, but the micronutrient density of 100 grams of sweet potatoes (a root, rather than a tuber) cannot match 100 grams of kale.

 

[Vinero]

Vegetables are overrated, adequate calories and macronutrients are more important.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

His point about calories is not relevant. You don't everything for calories.

The liver evolved the handle anti-nuternts. That's one of it's jobs.

Peat Vegetable Quote: "And so I don't have any disagreement with the dietary recommendations to eat lots of milk and cheese and fruit and vegetables..."

Ray Peat on eating well cooked leafy greens

"Peat quotes on greens in the context of just using their bolied water:

"I sometimes make a magnesium supplement by boiling a pound of greens (kale, beets, spinach, etc.) in a little water, making a concentrated extract rich in magnesium.”

"The things I most often recommend for magnesium are the water from boiling greens such as beet, chard, turnip and kale, and coffee."

"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio."

[GREEN JUICES] "The minerals and vitamin K are definitely valuable, but the high content of PUFA and tannins is a problem. Boiling the leaves and discarding all but the water can produce a good magnesium supplement.
[I supplement 5g of vit K2 mk-4 once a week, do you think green veggies are even necessary?] If you have other sources of magnesium, the green vegetables aren't needed"

Peat quotes on greens in context of eating the whole leaves:

"Those hormones, antagonistic to cortisol, can help to reduce waist fat. Chard, collard, and kale are good greens."

"Well cooked potatoes, with butter or cream, fruit, and well cooked greens are other foods have vitamins and minerals that are helpful."

"Well cooked greens are very good sources, coffee and chocolate are, too."

"but the first thing should be to make sure her calcium to phosphorus ratio is good, by having two quarts of low fat milk per day, or the equivalent in low fat cheese, with no grains, legumes, nuts, or muscle meats, and with some well cooked greens regularly. Vitamin K is important for calcium metabolism, too."

"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio." (both whole and water quote)"

 

[raypeatclips]

My health has improved since added vegetables compared to the standard "peat diet" of very little vegetables.

 

[Coffeeandcigar]

They may not be necessary, I like them when I feel like munching on something but don’t want many calories. I’ve been wondering if my cooked broccoli I have so often is doing any harm. Might switch to green beans.

If you don’t like the taste then it probably wouldn’t be an issue going without.

 

[ddjd]

where else do you get your folate. apart from liver...

 

[Vinero]

His point about calories is not relevant. You don't everything for calories.

The liver evolved the handle anti-nuternts. That's one of it's jobs.

Peat Vegetable Quote: "And so I don't have any disagreement with the dietary recommendations to eat lots of milk and cheese and fruit and vegetables..."

Ray Peat on eating well cooked leafy greens

"Peat quotes on greens in the context of just using their bolied water:

"I sometimes make a magnesium supplement by boiling a pound of greens (kale, beets, spinach, etc.) in a little water, making a concentrated extract rich in magnesium.”

"The things I most often recommend for magnesium are the water from boiling greens such as beet, chard, turnip and kale, and coffee."

"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio."

[GREEN JUICES] "The minerals and vitamin K are definitely valuable, but the high content of PUFA and tannins is a problem. Boiling the leaves and discarding all but the water can produce a good magnesium supplement.
[I supplement 5g of vit K2 mk-4 once a week, do you think green veggies are even necessary?] If you have other sources of magnesium, the green vegetables aren't needed"

Peat quotes on greens in context of eating the whole leaves:

"Those hormones, antagonistic to cortisol, can help to reduce waist fat. Chard, collard, and kale are good greens."

"Well cooked potatoes, with butter or cream, fruit, and well cooked greens are other foods have vitamins and minerals that are helpful."

"Well cooked greens are very good sources, coffee and chocolate are, too."

"but the first thing should be to make sure her calcium to phosphorus ratio is good, by having two quarts of low fat milk per day, or the equivalent in low fat cheese, with no grains, legumes, nuts, or muscle meats, and with some well cooked greens regularly. Vitamin K is important for calcium metabolism, too."

"Cooked green leaves, or the water they were boiled in, is a very good source of magnesium, with other minerals in safe ratio." (both whole and water quote)"

I meant vegetables are overrated in general society, as when anyone asks advice how to eat more healthy is always told "eat more fruit and vegetables"
I know Peat thinks vegetables are a good source of magnesium and vitamin K. But I think when you are hypothyroid or in bad health there are more important things to do than eating more vegetables,
such as eating satisfying amounts of protein, carbs and calories and cutting out PUFAs and other toxins.

 

[Vinero]

@raypeatclips "My health has improved since added vegetables compared to the standard "peat diet" of very little vegetables."

What vegetables? Leafy greens like kale or other kinds?

 

[aquaman]

The green vege broth I make makes a noticeable difference to how I feel. Calcium, potassium, magnesium, vit C, Vit A, Vit K etc...

 

[cyclops]

I like peas.

 

[raypeatclips]

@raypeatclips "My health has improved since added vegetables compared to the standard "peat diet" of very little vegetables."

What vegetables? Leafy greens like kale or other kinds?

Just "regular" vegetables, onions, peppers, garlic, parnsips, carrots, courgette, mushrooms. Small amounts of a mix variety. I had gut pain for a long time, a burning in my lower right abdominal area, similar symptoms to appendicitis. I even visited the doctor where it was suggested I might have Crohn's or ulcerative colitis and referred to a GI consultant which I am awaiting an appointment with I probably won't go to now. The pain and issues are completely gone, none existent. Bowel movements are at the same time every day, soft and smooth (before my stools were so hard my **** bled, you can see some of my older posts about this) I'm sure my stomach looks slimmer, (less bloating maybe?) But my weight hasn't changed.

Kale and leafy greens have seriously irritated my gut before, when I have had to lie down and curl up in pain. Other times it has been fine, not sure why. I'm just avoiding them at the moment.

I do sometimes get mildly smelly gas which makes me think one of the veg is not digesting well or my body isn't reacting, which makes me think I'll have to try eliminating some of them and watching for changes but at the moment I don't care and enjoying feeling better.

 

[Vinero]

Just "regular" vegetables, onions, peppers, garlic, parnsips, carrots, courgette, mushrooms. Small amounts of a mix variety. I had gut pain for a long time, a burning in my lower right abdominal area, similar symptoms to appendicitis. I even visited the doctor where it was suggested I might have Crohn's or ulcerative colitis and referred to a GI consultant which I am awaiting an appointment with I probably won't go to now. The pain and issues are completely gone, none existent. Bowel movements are at the same time every day, soft and smooth (before my stools were so hard my **** bled, you can see some of my older posts about this) I'm sure my stomach looks slimmer, (less bloating maybe?) But my weight hasn't changed.

Kale and leafy greens have seriously irritated my gut before, when I have had to lie down and curl up in pain. Other times it has been fine, not sure why. I'm just avoiding them at the moment.

I do sometimes get mildly smelly gas which makes me think one of the veg is not digesting well or my body isn't reacting, which makes me think I'll have to try eliminating some of them and watching for changes but at the moment I don't care and enjoying feeling better.

That gut pain sounds pretty scary. Did you try aspirin?
What do you think resolved those issues, eating those vegetables you mentioned or Peating in general?

 

[raypeatclips]

That gut pain sounds pretty scary. Did you try aspirin?
What do you think resolved those issues, eating those vegetables you mentioned or Peating in general?

Dabbled with aspirin a few years ago but not recently. I have been "peating" for several years really, and the problem developed while I was peating, but I am not sure whether it actually caused it. I think it was some sort of constipation issue that irritated that area in particular and the fibre has fixed it all.

 

[schultz]

where else do you get your folate. apart from liver...

Orange juice is a pretty good source.

 

[lvysaur]

Broccoli is a flower, he didn't mention that. Also lots of self-important posturing in the beginning and talking down to his viewers. Unpleasant.

With kale, he fails to state that cooking them inactivates the goitrogens. Also failed to mention vitamin K1, which is pretty much exclusively in green leafy veggies.

 

[Travis]

I meant vegetables are overrated in general society, as when anyone asks advice how to eat more healthy is always told "eat more fruit and vegetables"
I know Peat thinks vegetables are a good source of magnesium and vitamin K. But I think when you are hypothyroid or in bad health there are more important things to do than eating more vegetables,
such as eating satisfying amounts of protein, carbs and calories and cutting out PUFAs and other toxins.

Don't mind him, he actually gets paid to say that.

 

[Vinero]

Don't mind him, he actually gets paid to say that.

I wish!

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I meant vegetables are overrated in general society

I was taking about the guy in the OP's video.

 

[Travis]

All I can say that most animals actually do eat leaves, with carnivores being the actual minority of land animals. And even among the primates, most can be found eating leaves. There's so many disparate molecules, and even broad classes of molecules, found within leaves that its hard to say very much about them in general. Just among the class of polyphenols, for instance, about twenty types are commonly consumed any most have radically-different effects; this is despite many of them differing by only one hydroxyl group, or even being identical save for how they're arranged (i.e. isomers). Similar to how the loss of only one methyl group and a few hydrogens can turn testosterone into estradiol, the activity within the class of the similarly-sized polyphenols can change with only minor modifications. I don't think anyone here recommends eating acutely poisonous leaves and the common ones in the supermarket have been selected-for, picked, eaten, planted, bred, and selected-for again in successive iterations throughout hundreds of years, tending to diminish any toxic or unpalatable properties. Nonetheless: I'm not against any realistic talk about the phytochemicals that do remain, but it should always be kept in mind that there does exist certain aspects of nearly every food that isn't beyond reproach. Raw milk and fruit are perhaps what best approach the ideal food, but even these can be abused and can have issues. Instead of them being improved transgenerationally through selective breeding and modern agricultural practices (like most leaves appear to have been), I would argue that milk, fruit, and certainly grains have changed for the worse: They had generally increased in sugar and had decreased in minerals; milk is often heat denatured and homogenized with recombinant bovine somatatropin added; and nearly all classes of foods have been corrupted by synthetic pesticides.