Are There Any Peat-friendly Probiotics?

[Dutchie]

Eating really strict Peatish,like most here do,is it even possible that one has bad gut bacteria/leaky gut with all the gelatin consuming? bc what I understood from GAPS,gelatin is the substance that seals the gutlining....

 

[j.]

I think SIBO is hard to get rid of.

 

[mdimarco]

My philosophy is the bacteria slime/biofilm shouldn't even be present in the large intestine let alone the small.

 

[Yves]

Interesting. Reading peatarian's minocycline comments and did a little research on it and I think it is a good idea.

Bacterial resistance isn't a long term thing. Especially if you are cleaning out the majority of the bacteria in the body (which is in the intestines) mechanically, I think taking a safe antibiotic once every few months could be a great thing to get things in the skin, naso-pharengeal area, and other areas. Bacteria will take up genetic plasmids from other bacteria to allow them to make protiens that make them resistant to something. However, carrying these plasmids with them takes extra energy. Bacteria aren't dumb, once the threat passes, they will drop the plasmids, thereby loosing resistance. I know this first hand working with e-coli in my lab.

So I think an antibiotic course would be good, but no more than once a month so you aren't perpetuating any resistance developed. Obviously that timing isn't fine tuned, I think specific studies with minocycline or whatever we are taking needs to be done to see how long bacteria isolated from different parts of our body keep antibiotic resistance after the antibiotic leaves the system. It is an easy experiment, we would just need to transform different types of bacteria with minocycline resistance plasmid (likely easily available), get minocycline and make plates with it, grow the bacteria on the antibiotic plates, then grow for a certain number of times on normal plates, then receck to see if they can survive on the mino plates. We could find how long they carry the resistance gene once the threat is removed. This could be done in any biology lab.

Marco, could you fill us in on the comments Peatarian made, or what insights you have? Particularly with regard to the naso-pharengeal area. I had strep throat for years as a kid before getting my tonsils pulled. I jumped out of my seat recently when I read the post on Jaminet's site about PANDAS - http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2013/01/a- ... r-and-ocd/. I've had a long list of problems like stuffy nose, headaches, insomnia, anxiety, depression, tmj, etc. and I wonder if it has to do with infections directly in that region of the body. I know I can trigger all those symptoms easily by eating the wrong foods, so there is a gut connection for sure. What I don't know is if the gut is acting as a reservoir for these bacteria and they pass through the intestines to go on and infect the naso-pharengeal area, or if it's an indirect connection (just peripheral effects of serotonin or whatever). My nose can enlarge significantly in a short time if I eat gluten, my voice becomes more muddled, I get headachy and foggy headed. Vitamin D and beta glucan seem to be pretty good at clearing up these symptoms, so I'm very much convinced there is an immune system component - I just don't know what the source or mechanism is exactly. I tried doing sinus rinses on the chance that I could clear anything out that way, but I didn't find them to be that helpful.

I've been doing the clay the past few days btw. I think it definitely helps. I feel good right away, and then get endotoxin/die-off symptoms a few hours later. I think what's going on is that I still have an H. Pylori infection (stomach) which is why it feels good immediately, but then it takes a few hours to get low enough in the intestines to kill bacteria. I notice I feel good immediately with herbal antibiotics (lemongrass oil, turmeric, oregano oil, red wine), which all have activity against h pylori. I just got some antibiotics (alinia, amoxicillin, azithromycin), so I may plan a big bang cleanse with anti-biofilm approaches to try and kill these bacteria.

edit -
I should also mention I took doxycycline not too long ago and I found it was great at clearing my voice, but did nothing for headaches. I know from stool tests I have multiple pathogens, which is why I am interested in catch-all type approaches. I'm planning on getting some diatomaceous earth to experiment with.. What doses do you reccomend? And is there a source you find that is good?

 

[Dean]

Yves, I assume you are talking about bentonite clay? Are you using the sodium or the calcium bentonite? I just bought some calcium bentonite and have been using it as toothpaste and was going to use it for the pores on my nose. It says it is food grade. How have you been using it internally? What kind of die-off symptoms are you having?

I think I've seen mentioned that Peat isn't crazy about it because of aluminum, so I assume that's why he recommends charcoal or cascara, as well as the carrots or bamboo shoots, of course. How does the clay compare to what you've gotten out of any of the things Peat recommends instead? Thanks.

 

[charlie]

Hmmmm, wondering if that is whats going on with my voice. And my throat is tonsils are always really red and not sure if thats normal. ugggh.

 

[Yves]

I'm taking Illite clay. It's comparable to taking charcoal for me but more potent. Charcoal will give me TMJ in high doses, where as I do not experience that with clay, probably because clay has a good deal of magnesium and calcium while charcoal will bind to those minerals. I notice I'm calmer and my vision is better with clay, but charcoal can give the same effect. Charcoal is better at reducing bloating /gas. The die off effects for me are chills and feeling tired, back of my throat a little coarse (feels like catching a cold, but goes a way after a couple hours). I've never experienced those symptoms with charcoal.

I don't know how toxic the aluminosilicate is. Be carefull not to inhale the stuff; that seems to be dangerous, but I haven't found any evidence that ingestion causes harm.

 

[Dean]

What time of day do you usually take the clay or charcoal? Do either of them provide the...umm...momentum to evacuate or do you need to take something like psyllium husks or whatever for that?

 

[Yves]

I usually take them on an empty stomach with at least a few hours between meals. Sometimes that means early afternoon, sometimes in the morning, sometimes before bed. I don't think it makes a big difference for me. Before bed I do think helps me sleep but since I eat late I usually don't take it before bed.

Clay or charcoal slows down transit time for me.. I usually don't feel any need to speed things up, but when I do, 1-2L of coffee on an empty stomach helps me go. A carrot salad sometimes does it, and when things feel clogged/stuck and it's a bother I just do a saline enema and be done with it.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Tetracyclines, particularly low dose, well-absorbed tetracyclines like doxycycline and minocycline, are not very effective at killing bacteria in the bowels. That's actually a reason they are preferred, because their effect on gut flora is relatively minimal. There are antibiotics and protocols designed specifically for this purpose, that are both safer and more effective.

What you're really talking about here is treating SIBO, and the experts in that field use rifaximin 550mg tid for 14 days, with or without neomycin 500mg bid if methane-producing bacteria are also present (symptoms of constipation correlate with methane production).

Rifaximin is expensive in the U.S. but can be obtained cheaply from overseas pharmacies.

 

[charlie]

Very interesting. Thank you for posting that.

 

[Jib]

I've had a long list of problems like stuffy nose, headaches, insomnia, anxiety, depression, tmj, etc. and I wonder if it has to do with infections directly in that region of the body.

http://copperzap.com/

I've been using that thing recently. I am pretty uncomfortable sticking it that far up my nose. I don't think I've even done that yet. I put it in halfway or at the most 3 quarters of the way. Just kind of freaks me out or something.

*But* I had the same feeling about doing handstand pushups. Kicking up against the wall made me feel scared and dizzy for some reason, but after forcing myself to do it a bunch of times I completely got over it. So I'll keep trying.

But the idea that the solid copper will kill bacteria and viruses, and using solid copper deep in the nasal cavity before they have a chance to spread is very interesting. It's a great little tool to have on hand. I just keep it in a drawer in the bathroom in the little pouch it comes in. Should last pretty much forever.

I've been using Diatomaceous Earth lately (1 tablespoon daily in orange juice, with some salt) and I like it a lot. I think it could have a solid place in a Peat-style protocol. I was reading on Peatarian and came across this quote that someone apparently took straight from Wikipedia:

"Geophagy, the practice of eating soil or rock, has been observed in orangutans. There are three main reasons for this dietary behaviour: for the addition of mineral nutrients to their diet; for the ingestion of clay minerals that can absorb toxic substances; or to treat a disorder such as diarrhoea."

 

[Dan W]

Reviving this old thread with a quote from Peat that surprised me:

Dear Dr Peat,
what is your opinion on lactobacillus reuteri as a probiotic to reduce endotoxins? This strain produces the antibiotic reuterin and there's some evidence that it helps with bacterial infections.

I think it’s safe; I’ve seen good results from other bacterial cultures, such as B. subtilis and B. licheniformis

 

[narouz]

post 104284 Reviving this old thread with a quote from Peat that surprised me:

Dear Dr Peat,
what is your opinion on lactobacillus reuteri as a probiotic to reduce endotoxins? This strain produces the antibiotic reuterin and there's some evidence that it helps with bacterial infections.

I think it’s safe; I’ve seen good results from other bacterial cultures, such as B. subtilis and B. licheniformis

Very interesting.
Thanks, Dan.
That is one of the probiotics I use.
It fits in with notion I have that
maybe the best way to attain a fairly sterile gut
upwards from the colon
is--at least for some people, especially those without appendixes--
to supplement certain probiotic critters
and maybe to cultivate them by feeding them certain fibers/starches....

 

[beachbum]

Hello

I have been using degrading probiotics. They have some or no histamine effects.

Thank you beachbum

 

[Dan W]

Apparently Peat used Biosporin cultured in milk (or possibly something else). Biosporin contains the B. Subtilis and B. Licheniformis he mentioned.

Here's a warning about B. Subtilis that could be particularly relevant to Peat-peeps that might also use antibiotics.

 

[Makrosky]

Apparently Peat used Biosporin cultured in milk (or possibly something else). Biosporin contains the B. Subtilis and B. Licheniformis he mentioned.

Here's a warning about B. Subtilis that could be particularly relevant to Peat-peeps that might also use antibiotics.

But.... didn't he say that a sterile gut is the best gut? Why then does he recommend some non-mainstream probiotics ?

 

[Dan W]

post 104338 But.... didn't he say that a sterile gut is the best gut? Why then does he recommend some non-mainstream probiotics ?

I'm not sure exactly, but I figure he's not intending to recommend them. Just that he considers some strains safe, and has tried some for an unknown purpose.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't always do probiotics. But when I do, they produce antibiotics

 

[tara]

post 104338 But.... didn't he say that a sterile gut is the best gut?

I have not seen Peat say this.

I think he described a rodent lab experiment that showed greater longevity in the rodents with sterile guts. That's along way from saying we would all do best with a sterile gut.

My understanding of him is that in real life, he acknowledges that a sterile gut is not a possibility, says we have to live with microbiota, that some balances of species are more benign/malign than others, that there is a great deal more to be learned about them, and that there can sometimes be a case for keeping the overall numbers down with various anti-biotic tactics to reduce endotoxin load. I don't think he's ever said that it's a realistic possibility for humans to live outside a bubble and sustain a sterile gut.
If I've interpreted him right, then having an idea about which species are more benign could well be useful, to help displace/keep at bay the more pathogenic species.