Are K1 And MK7 Safe To Use Along With MK4? Does Source Matter?

[BigChad]

It seems like almost all the MK4/MK7 products on the market including life extensions are sourced from soy natto or other soy products.

I found a product called ADK by codelabs on amazon. It has 900mcg vitamin A (all retinyl palmitate), 5000iu d3, 1000mcg K1, 1500 mcg K2 MK4 and 300 mcg K2 Mk7. They said they source their vitamin K from algae using bacterial fermentation and synthesis.

I was wondering if the Algae sourced K supplements are safe to use, and superior to soy natto sourced ones? I heard soy natto being a fermented soy product, has much less goitrogens/phytoestrogens than regular soy protein/fat products. Is there an issue with consuming K1 or MK7 in these dosages? I remember reading that MK7 and K1 interfere with 5ar.

 

[ShotTrue]

I don't think that's a super high amount of mk7, though I'm not sure vitamin A is supposed to be taken along with those. @baccheion knows a lot about ratios of these vitamins

I actually did experience a reduction in libidio with mk7, and I remembered reading later that mk7 lowers sex drive in mice/rats. Perhaps it's better just to use mk7 occasionally or therapeutically, and mk4 consistently. I think mk7 is superior in ways to mk4 but mk4 is androgenic and mk7 as you said may be slightly inhibitory.
I like jarrows mk7 though im sure its from natto

 

[BigChad]

I don't think that's a super high amount of mk7, though I'm not sure vitamin A is supposed to be taken along with those. @baccheion knows a lot about ratios of these vitamins

I actually did experience a reduction in libidio with mk7, and I remembered reading later that mk7 lowers sex drive in mice/rats. Perhaps it's better just to use mk7 occasionally or therapeutically, and mk4 consistently. I think mk7 is superior in ways to mk4 but mk4 is androgenic and mk7 as you said may be slightly inhibitory.
I like jarrows mk7 though im sure its from natto

i know thornes vitamin k is from geranium oil, which is supposedly cheaper than natto based ones, but more hypoallergenic. may not be as absorbable.
what dosage/frequency were you taking with your vitamin k?

I was going to take the ADK product 4x a week, and on the other 3 days of the week take the nutrigold vitamin E gold. it has tocotrienols and is sourced from sunflower/red palm so i am still looking into other vitamin e sources which are tocopherol only.

btw what about the K1? seems to have some 5ar effects but i think its also necessary especially if taking vitamin e? and it possibly converts to mk4 or mk7

 

[ShotTrue]

i know thornes vitamin k is from geranium oil, which is supposedly cheaper than natto based ones, but more hypoallergenic. may not be as absorbable.
what dosage/frequency were you taking with your vitamin k?

I was going to take the ADK product 4x a week, and on the other 3 days of the week take the nutrigold vitamin E gold. it has tocotrienols and is sourced from sunflower/red palm so i am still looking into other vitamin e sources which are tocopherol only.

btw what about the K1? seems to have some 5ar effects but i think its also necessary especially if taking vitamin e? and it possibly converts to mk4 or mk7

I don't know much about K1 but I took that at the same time. I was taking up to mg of mk4 and mk7 a day, that's a lot of mk7 daily. I don't know what your goals are
Vitamin E on separate days seems like a good idea

 

[BigChad]

I don't know much about K1 but I took that at the same time. I was taking up to mg of mk4 and mk7 a day, that's a lot of mk7 daily. I don't know what your goals are
Vitamin E on separate days seems like a good idea

widening the jaw, digestion, thyroid health. yeah thats a lot of mk7. I dont want to mess with dht too much, mk7 supposedly stays active in the bloodstream for like 48 hours.
do you know of any good non soy mixed tocopherol products? i was gonna go with nutrigold but have been really hesitant due to the tocotrienols. Also thorne said this regarding tocotrienols
"Tocotrienols exist naturally in mixed tocopherols. However, they are not tested for and thus are not listed on the label. They are better suited for topical creams because they are poorly assimilated by digestion, are poorly distributed to tissues in blood and are rapidly metabolized and eliminated from the body. "

 

[ShotTrue]

widening the jaw, digestion, thyroid health. yeah thats a lot of mk7. I dont want to mess with dht too much, mk7 supposedly stays active in the bloodstream for like 48 hours.
do you know of any good non soy mixed tocopherol products? i was gonna go with nutrigold but have been really hesitant due to the tocotrienols. Also thorne said this regarding tocotrienols
"Tocotrienols exist naturally in mixed tocopherols. However, they are not tested for and thus are not listed on the label. They are better suited for topical creams because they are poorly assimilated by digestion, are poorly distributed to tissues in blood and are rapidly metabolized and eliminated from the body. "

im guessing tocotrienols are Vitamin E? I haven't used that much, though I think I used haidut's stuff
mk4 is better for all those goals, though some mk7 like maybe once a week could help with general calcium use in the body

 

[BigChad]

im guessing tocotrienols are Vitamin E? I haven't used that much, though I think I used haidut's stuff
mk4 is better for all those goals, though some mk7 like maybe once a week could help with general calcium use in the body

are there any pure mk4 products?
yeah vitamin e has 4 tocopherols 4 tocotrienols. tocopherols are saturated, tocotrienols are unsaturated. tocotrienols only seem to be present in certain oils like coconut, red palm, macadamia. most of what ive read says tocotrienols are bad due to the unsaturated nature while tocopherols are good.

im reading a lot of conflicting things on the vitamin k thread. like some people advise against k1, and mk7, while others say they are very important

 

[ShotTrue]

I don't know much about K1 so can't saything about that. As for mk7 I think for calcium in the blood stream and maybe overall in the bones it is superior, but mk4 increases testerone and thyroid that I don't think mk7 does.
Oh ok, I'll remember that about Vitamin E

 

[BigChad]

I don't know much about K1 so can't saything about that. As for mk7 I think for calcium in the blood stream and maybe overall in the bones it is superior, but mk4 increases testerone and thyroid that I don't think mk7 does.
Oh ok, I'll remember that about Vitamin E

Mk7 and K1 dont decrease thyroid or testosterone though right? I wonder how strong their inhibition affect is on 5ar and if taking a, e, and d could nullify any issues with k1 and mk7. Im assuming if you use lots of E you would need some k1 for blood clotting since mk4 and mk7 dont seem to be involved with that.

 

[ShotTrue]

Mk7 and K1 dont decrease thyroid or testosterone though right? I wonder how strong their inhibition affect is on 5ar and if taking a, e, and d could nullify any issues with k1 and mk7. Im assuming if you use lots of E you would need some k1 for blood clotting since mk4 and mk7 dont seem to be involved with that.

It might be preferred to have some k1 then, I wouldn't use mk7 all the time I would stick with something like life extension super k

 

[BigChad]

It might be preferred to have some k1 then, I wouldn't use mk7 all the time I would stick with something like life extension super k

That is all from soy natto right? Plus has lots of negative amazon reviews, possibly due to all the fillers
Does vitamin k and e need to be in an oil softgel form or are dry tablets and capsules fine

 

[ShotTrue]

That is all from soy natto right? Plus has lots of negative amazon reviews, possibly due to all the fillers
Does vitamin k and e need to be in an oil softgel form or are dry tablets and capsules fine

I woudn't worry so much about a tiny bit of soy imo, but if you want to try other source I don't see the problem.
I don't think the form matters as I've used capsules and gels, you just need to take E and K separate from each other, and take these vitamins with fat for solubilty

 

[BigChad]

It might be preferred to have some k1 then, I wouldn't use mk7 all the time I would stick with something like life extension super k

the Super K has 1500mcg K1, 1000mcg mk4, 100 mcg all trans mk7. you think the 100mcg mk7 is fine taken regularly, every other day?
I found a good product on amazon, codelabs ADK product. It's a dry capsule not an oil capsule. No fillers or ingredients at all just a veggie capsule, 900mcg retinyl palmitate, 5000iu d3, k1/mk4/mk7.
i used to use life extensions daily health booster. it has k and gamma tocopherols but has a lot of filler oils and ingredients, plus a lot of lutein and lycopene. ray has mentioned acacia gum caused trouble for him and took a couple weeks to clear his symptoms. its supposedly very allergenic