Are Humans (and all Vertebrates) running a chronic, lifetime Glycine Deficient?

[tankasnowgod]

This is sort of a follow up to the post I did about an experimental Methionine Deficient diet.

Methionine Deficient Diet Induces Rapid Weight (Fat) Loss in Mice who Ate More, and Moved Less

This was an interesting short term study. The researchers basically took Methionine Restriction a step further, and fed Obese mice a diet completely free of Methionine. They noticed rapid weight loss, mostly fat, and apparently did it through increasing resting metabolic rate...

raypeatforum.com

I happened to be looking at the Glycine/Methionine Ratio, and came across two interviews with Alex Leaf from Examine, who suggested that out glycine requirements may be much higher than previously suggested. 10-15 grams of daily glycine is suggested as what's needed (an amount that most people still fail to get in their diet), but Leaf indicates these were "conservative" estimates, taking the low end for an average human adult that weighs about 160 pounds. He suggests the average might be a lot higher, and that the range could be anywhere from 10-60 grams or so, depending a number of factors.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGNO97uR_bA

Why You Need Glycine: A Panel Discussion

This episode is a panel discussion between Dr. Chris Masterjohn, Alex Leaf of Examine.Com, and Vladimir Heiskanen, covering everything you need to know about glycine.

chrismasterjohnphd.com

While the use of gelatin and collagen rich cuts of meat was discussed, the interesting thing is that Leaf suggests that animals in the wild also tend to run this glycine deficit, as do babies that are breastfed.

In the second interview, Masterjohn also suggests that extra Methionine in the diet would reduce the net intake of glycine even more. So, if someone is getting 5 grams of glycine, but also ingesting 4 grams of Methionine, they really are only getting 1 net gram of glycine for all the other needs of the body, an even more dramatic deficit that what it would first appear.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I had to stop taking glycine because it was giving me a weird head that affected my sleep. Was doing maybe 0.5-2 g/day as an additive to herbal tea.

 

[Braveheart]

6 g/d.....easy to do and feels good

 

[Braveheart]

glycine 6.6g/d ....methionine 1.7g/d.....averages for a week....am feeling good with this...no negatives

 

[StephanF]

I had to stop taking glycine because it was giving me a weird head that affected my sleep. Was doing maybe 0.5-2 g/day as an additive to herbal tea.

It gave me sort of anxiety, I am not an anxious person, so that was very weird to me. I stopped using it.

 

[Perry Staltic]

It gave me sort of anxiety, I am not an anxious person, so that was very weird to me. I stopped using it.

Same with me.

 

[Mito]

I had to stop taking glycine because it was giving me a weird head that affected my sleep. Was doing maybe 0.5-2 g/day as an additive to herbal tea.

It gave me sort of anxiety, I am not an anxious person, so that was very weird to me. I stopped using it.

According to MasterJohn, this could be because of cellular chloride channel dysregulation. He suggests that the cause is energy metabolism (i.e. hypothyroidism).

View: https://youtu.be/7ugZ5X7M2uE

 

[Perry Staltic]

According to MasterJohn, this could be because of cellular chloride channel dysregulation. He suggests that the cause is energy metabolism (i.e. hypothyroidism).

View: https://youtu.be/7ugZ5X7M2uE

Thanks, I was hoping someone would respond with ideas. I'm starting to think that too much supplementing with anything is not a good idea. I have no problems when I don't supplement, which is what I'm doing now. I'm even back to being able to drink coffee, which I had to stop because it was kind of tied to the same issue. But I'll keep what Masterjohn said in mind. I don't have hypothyroid symptoms; maybe I'm not eating enough to be able to handle all that glycine.

 

[Riesensackteil]

According to MasterJohn, this could be because of cellular chloride channel dysregulation. He suggests that the cause is energy metabolism (i.e. hypothyroidism).

View: https://youtu.be/7ugZ5X7M2uE

Maybe they should try to sleep with bright light

 

[Grapelander]

Dietary glycine supplementation mimics lifespan extension by dietary methionine restriction in Fisher 344 rats First published: 01 April 2011
Dietary methionine (Met) restriction (MR) extends lifespan in rodents by 30–40% and inhibits growth.
Since glycine is the vehicle for hepatic clearance of excess Met via glycine N-methyltransferase (GNMT), we hypothesized that dietary glycine supplementation (GS) might produce biochemical and endocrine changes similar to MR and also extend lifespan.
Seven-week-old male Fisher 344 rats were fed diets containing 0.43% Met/2.3% glycine (control fed; CF) or 0.43% Met/4%, 8% or 12% glycine until natural death.
In 8% or 12% GS rats, median lifespan increased from 88 weeks (w) to 113 w, and maximum lifespan increased from 91 w to 119 w v CF.
We propose that more efficient Met clearance via GNMT with GS could be reducing chronic Met toxicity due to rogue methylations from chronic excess methylation capacity or oxidative stress from generation of toxic by-products such as formaldehyde.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This is an intersting subject Tank.

"Muscle meat is relatively high in methionine, which can be turned into another amino acid: homocysteine.

Unlike methionine, homocysteine is not found in food. It’s formed in your body when dietary methionine is metabolized, mainly in your liver.

Excessive consumption of methionine may lead to elevated blood levels of homocysteine — especially if you’re deficient in certain nutrients, such as folate.

Homocysteine is highly reactive within your body. High intake of methionine from supplements or animal protein may have adverse effects on the function of blood vessels.

High blood levels of homocysteine have been associated with several chronic conditions, such as heart disease.

However, evidence that elevated homocysteine, in itself, causes heart disease is weak.

In fact, studies show that reducing homocysteine levels with folate or other B vitamins after a heart attack does not decrease the frequency of recurrent events in the heart or circulatory system.

Additionally, other studies suggest that strategies to reduce homocysteine levels have little or no effects on heart disease events or your risk of death."

Methionine vs. Glycine — Is Too Much Muscle Meat Bad?

This article reviews the importance of eating balanced amounts of the amino acids methionine and glycine.

www.healthline.com

 

[PxD]

This is sort of a follow up to the post I did about an experimental Methionine Deficient diet.

Methionine Deficient Diet Induces Rapid Weight (Fat) Loss in Mice who Ate More, and Moved Less

This was an interesting short term study. The researchers basically took Methionine Restriction a step further, and fed Obese mice a diet completely free of Methionine. They noticed rapid weight loss, mostly fat, and apparently did it through increasing resting metabolic rate...

raypeatforum.com

I happened to be looking at the Glycine/Methionine Ratio, and came across two interviews with Alex Leaf from Examine, who suggested that out glycine requirements may be much higher than previously suggested. 10-15 grams of daily glycine is suggested as what's needed (an amount that most people still fail to get in their diet), but Leaf indicates these were "conservative" estimates, taking the low end for an average human adult that weighs about 160 pounds. He suggests the average might be a lot higher, and that the range could be anywhere from 10-60 grams or so, depending a number of factors.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGNO97uR_bA

Why You Need Glycine: A Panel Discussion

This episode is a panel discussion between Dr. Chris Masterjohn, Alex Leaf of Examine.Com, and Vladimir Heiskanen, covering everything you need to know about glycine.

chrismasterjohnphd.com

While the use of gelatin and collagen rich cuts of meat was discussed, the interesting thing is that Leaf suggests that animals in the wild also tend to run this glycine deficit, as do babies that are breastfed.

In the second interview, Masterjohn also suggests that extra Methionine in the diet would reduce the net intake of glycine even more. So, if someone is getting 5 grams of glycine, but also ingesting 4 grams of Methionine, they really are only getting 1 net gram of glycine for all the other needs of the body, an even more dramatic deficit that what it would first appear.

If just about every human and/or animal is glycine deficient, then does an optimal glycine intake exist anywhere in nature? Stated another way, if adequate glycine intake doesn't exist in nature then how would they know that a deficiency exists?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

If just about every human and/or animal is glycine deficient, then does an optimal glycine intake exist anywhere in nature? Stated another way, if adequate glycine intake doesn't exist in nature then how would they know that a deficiency exists?

If one says an optimal glycine intake doesn't exist anywhere in nature, then isn't that equivalent to saying nature got things wrong?

 

[YourUniverse]

Probably, a diet lacking in glycine, and glyphosate in all the food to make the deficiency grow

 

[tankasnowgod]

If just about every human and/or animal is glycine deficient, then does an optimal glycine intake exist anywhere in nature?

Leaf is claiming that it doesn't. At least, not in the modern environment.

Stated another way, if adequate glycine intake doesn't exist in nature then how would they know that a deficiency exists?

Leaf's claim relies on biomarkers of glycine deficiency, and other animal experiments.

 

[tankasnowgod]

If one says an optimal glycine intake doesn't exist anywhere in nature, then isn't that equivalent to saying nature got things wrong?

Wrong in what sense? This concept isn't totally foreign.

Peat, for example, talks about the egg of a chicken, and how it's a pretty good environment for a baby chick to develop. But, researchers have found that a chick can have superior development if they inject additional glucose or glycine into the egg. So while it's a good environment, it can be made better through "artificial" means.

Also, our current atmosphere has a dreadfully low carbon dioxide content, only about 300 ppm. Some periods showed much higher levels, up to 7% of of the atmosphere being CO2. Higher levels than what we have now are superior for plant and animal growth, development, health, and longevity.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Probably, a diet lacking in glycine, and glyphosate in all the food to make the deficiency grow

Glyphosate may be an issue in this regard, but Leaf was talking about this deficit existing long before glyphosate was ever invented.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Wrong in what sense? This concept isn't totally foreign.

Peat, for example, talks about the egg of a chicken, and how it's a pretty good environment for a baby chick to develop. But, researchers have found that a chick can have superior development if they inject additional glucose or glycine into the egg. So while it's a good environment, it can be made better through "artificial" means.

Also, our current atmosphere has a dreadfully low carbon dioxide content, only about 300 ppm. Some periods showed much higher levels, up to 7% of of the atmosphere being CO2. Higher levels than what we have now are superior for plant and animal growth, development, health, and longevity.

I didn't insinuate more isn't good, just that nature is lacking.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Also, our current atmosphere has a dreadfully low carbon dioxide content, only about 300 ppm.

Agree. FWIW, still trace, but we're up to about 420 ppm, so slow improvement. Around 150-180 ppm is when virtually all life on earth ceases

 

[Veritas IV]

Does anyone who suffers odd effects from glycine feel the same when consuming collagen or gelatin? They are somewhat glycine heavy but the other amino acids may be balancing them out.

As i've mentioned in other threads, I've suspected pure glycine of causing an odd feeling, but the feeling wasn't pronounced and i didn't experiment with it properly.

Possible experiment for those who feel odd effects from glycine, take some along with your chamomile tea, then wait to see how you feel afterwards. If that doesn't do the trick then you can also experiment by taking it alongside some collagen. I've been doing the latter and things are running smoothly.

And the whole Glyphosate thing is always looming in the background. It's something we all have to keep an eye on imho and make a genuine effort to limit it's intake.