Are Children Instinctually More Inclined To Eat Peat Friendly Foods?

[Fractality]

Yes I think so. It makes sense since children are more likely to have an ideal metabolism and are attracted to the foods that maintain it. Unfortunately culture oftentimes overrides biology here.

 

[Elephanto]

Yes I think so. It makes sense since children are more likely to have an ideal metabolism and are attracted to the foods that maintain it. Unfortunately culture oftentimes overrides biology here.

Adverse metabolic effects of dietary fructose: Results from recent epidemiological, clinical, and mechanistic studies

 

[Scenes]

Children are weak, as you grow up you learn self-restraint and discipline. Like the calf is addicted to its mothers milk's casomorphins, ensuring its survival, so is the human baby and so is the kid that continues to be addicted to casomorphins and fructose's opioid receptor-triggering effect. Addicted to food in general too, always needing to eat and in a constant blood sugar rollercoaster due to sucrose. An adult on a diet of milk and sugar remains hormonally a child. Both have been shown to adversely affect testosterone production, and it wasn't before I got into intermittent fasting (without suffering from hunger) and a low sugar diet (vinegared white basmati rice and carefully soaked adzuki beans, with a little coconut oil/olive oil) that my testosterone production visibly increased. Went from looking like a kid at 26, to growing a hard stubble and gaining a lot of female attention in a span of a few disciplined weeks. Before that I was full-on peat. Ironically fructose even negatively affects thyroid health which is the reason a lot of people are here. Anyway, like this forum's motto says "Perceive, Think, Act." If your situation isn't optimal, you need to question your habits, look past simple dogmas and research, and finally act. A lot of good to learn here but also a bit of bad.

Seen you write about this rice and coconut oil diet before for something else. What’s the idea behind it and what else do you consume? Think you said you regrew hair or muscle or something on it?

 

[Elephanto]

Seen you write about this rice and coconut oil diet before for something else. What’s the idea behind it and what else do you consume? Think you said you regrew hair or muscle or something on it?

The idea is that it doesn't contain fructose. I treat fruits like a dessert (small portion, like an orange or some raspberries) but don't always have one, this way you can get the few beneficial effects of fructose when it is consumed in small quantity as well as antioxidants. By using balsamic vinegar, olive/coconut oil and some spices (curry is anti-estrogenic, ginger and saffron increase testosterone, or just salt, sometimes a bit of pepper) you counteract the endotoxin-promoting properties of starch . Basmati is already low in starch and I wash it before cooking, it completely loses its stickiness. Gluten is much more endotoxin-promoting, it is literally glue sticking to the linings of your stomach and decaying. Casein is actually used as an adhesive agent in some products and I suspect it has the same properties though I've never seen a study on the subject. The high carb and low fat (but saturated) diet increases metabolism. Properly soaked legumes lose their anti-nutrients (24-48hours in bicarbonate sodium) and fullfill my protein needs as well as satiate my hunger more than just rice. They are also very high in antioxidants and have phytoestrogens that activate Estrogen-Receptor Beta (making them overall negative regulator of estrogen). That receptor has antiestrogenic signalling and is low in estrogen-related cancers, see here Antiestrogens upregulate estrogen receptor beta expression and inhibit adrenocortical H295R cell proliferation. - PubMed - NCBI But I also choose legumes very low in phytoestrogens (100 000 less than soy for instance, since they generally have an anti-androgenic effect too) and soaking decrease their content. Adzuki beans and lentils mainly. Meat, eggs and dairy contain dioxins which have an anti-androgenic effect, avoiding them probably contributes to raising my testosterone. Organic veggies are more like a once-or-twice-a-week thing, not really part of my staple as I'm saving money. Baby bok choys and broccoli for the cruciferous ones (anti-estrogenic) and green bell peppers for their silica content (good for hair and bones). The rest is taken care of by a few vitamins and minerals in supplements.

If my main carbs source, as I have experimented for years, was sugar, I would never have nearly the same efficiency of glycogen storage due to high fructose intake's adverse effect on the liver, which is why I can easily do Intermittent Fasting (about 16-18 hours fasting 6-8 hours eating = 2 meals a day + maybe a snack). It is a delicacy for the digestive system to be able to rest. I train fasted (moderate, mainly for blood circulation which is very important for testosterone production of the testes, and for androgen receptors triggering; so cardio followed by a few sprints and some lifting like squats, curls, pullups, pushups) and feel absolutely no stress doing so. The one thing that prompts hunger like nothing else is mental stress for me, I keep calmness in my mind and that's why I don't like to spend much time on forums arguing, only coming sporadically. The opioid effects of milk and sugar are stressing once it loses its effect, prompting hunger soon after. Having to eat every 2 hours or so and feeling very stressed and hungry as you wake up is illogical in my view of a sane life, and people who are stuck in this loop seem to think that any other way would be stressful but it isn't once you find the right food and habits.

 

[Runenight201]

I think a diet like that would work but at the expense of losing that childhood joy that is so precious. Similar to how monks eat and live, with a diet that is very bland and simple, which induces states that avoid that manic happiness that can be seen with children. You’ll live very long, be very focused on your goals, and take a very serious attitude. That’s certainly one way to live life, but is it the right way? maybe for certain individuals, who are willing to make that sacrifice.

What even is the right way, one can certainly live a good life without taking that approach. I think it’s important to realize the connection between how we eat and the conscious states it induces. There isn’t anything inherently wrong with inducing that intense, manic joy of childhood energy, so long that an adult with a mature development can direct that energy towards making others happy or creating something beautiful vs pursuing selfish, destructive ends. But it certainly is harder to maintain discipline with a diet that produces such high energy states, as a sucrose heavy diet would, and so if an individual weren’t able to maintain that discipline, than that potential is lost and wasted, and perhaps it’s better to eat a discipline inducing, calmer energy diet like starch, lentils, and veggies.

And perhaps maybe the two don’t need to be exclusive, but rather a healthy balance of the two can create what it really means to be human: diverse, adaptive, accommodating, creative. The ability to sit down and focus for hours as needed, and then when the moment is right, dance, celebrate, laugh, make love, and play, for life isn’t always serious, and if the universe is devoid of higher power, than it is those who treasure these moments that may have it really all figured out.

 

[Fractality]

The idea is that it doesn't contain fructose. I treat fruits like a dessert (small portion, like an orange or some raspberries) but don't always have one, this way you can get the few beneficial effects of fructose when it is consumed in small quantity as well as antioxidants. By using balsamic vinegar, olive/coconut oil and some spices (curry is anti-estrogenic, ginger and saffron increase testosterone, or just salt, sometimes a bit of pepper) you counteract the endotoxin-promoting properties of starch . Basmati is already low in starch and I wash it before cooking, it completely loses its stickiness. Gluten is much more endotoxin-promoting, it is literally glue sticking to the linings of your stomach and decaying. Casein is actually used as an adhesive agent in some products and I suspect it has the same properties though I've never seen a study on the subject. The high carb and low fat (but saturated) diet increases metabolism. Properly soaked legumes lose their anti-nutrients (24-48hours in bicarbonate sodium) and fullfill my protein needs as well as satiate my hunger more than just rice. They are also very high in antioxidants and have phytoestrogens that activate Estrogen-Receptor Beta (making them overall negative regulator of estrogen). That receptor has antiestrogenic signalling and is low in estrogen-related cancers, see here Antiestrogens upregulate estrogen receptor beta expression and inhibit adrenocortical H295R cell proliferation. - PubMed - NCBI But I also choose legumes very low in phytoestrogens (100 000 less than soy for instance, since they generally have an anti-androgenic effect too) and soaking decrease their content. Adzuki beans and lentils mainly. Meat, eggs and dairy contain dioxins which have an anti-androgenic effect, avoiding them probably contributes to raising my testosterone. Organic veggies are more like a once-or-twice-a-week thing, not really part of my staple as I'm saving money. Baby bok choys and broccoli for the cruciferous ones (anti-estrogenic) and green bell peppers for their silica content (good for hair and bones). The rest is taken care of by a few vitamins and minerals in supplements.

If my main carbs source, as I have experimented for years, was sugar, I would never have nearly the same efficiency of glycogen storage due to high fructose intake's adverse effect on the liver, which is why I can easily do Intermittent Fasting (about 16-18 hours fasting 6-8 hours eating = 2 meals a day + maybe a snack). It is a delicacy for the digestive system to be able to rest. I train fasted (moderate, mainly for blood circulation which is very important for testosterone production of the testes, and for androgen receptors triggering; so cardio followed by a few sprints and some lifting like squats, curls, pullups, pushups) and feel absolutely no stress doing so. The one thing that prompts hunger like nothing else is mental stress for me, I keep calmness in my mind and that's why I don't like to spend much time on forums arguing, only coming sporadically. The opioid effects of milk and sugar are stressing once it loses its effect, prompting hunger soon after. Having to eat every 2 hours or so and feeling very stressed and hungry as you wake up is illogical in my view of a sane life, and people who are stuck in this loop seem to think that any other way would be stressful but it isn't once you find the right food and habits.

Could you be so kind as to elaborate on how you soak the adzuki beans and lentils? How much baking soda do you use, etc. Also, how do you combine rice and coconut/olive oil? Do you drizzle the oil on the rice after its cooked?

 

[Elephanto]

Could you be so kind as to elaborate on how you soak the adzuki beans and lentils? How much baking soda do you use, etc. Also, how do you combine rice and coconut/olive oil? Do you drizzle the oil on the rice after its cooked?

I eyeball the quantity but I'd say at least 2 teaspoons per cup of legumes. I put them in a large glass bowl filled with water and the baking soda. Sometimes I change water every 12 hours but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Once this is done they will be much softer and take less time to cook.

I would always put the oil once it's cooked but most often I don't mix fat with rice, instead the oil go on veggies and legumes when I have them, or sometimes I swallow a teaspoon 20 mins after. I decided this based on Traditional Chinese Medicine's perspective. They believe in a condition called "dampness" and "damp-forming food" which extinguishes our digestive fire. They believe that this is the source of many diseases, as a weak digestive fire will allow pathogenic growth from incomplete digestion. Hippocrates also thought so "All diseases begin in the gut". Anyway, the point being is that oily, fatty food are considered damp-forming since they lubricate. Dairy, gluten, bananas and eating too much meat are also considered damp-forming. And that finally brings us to rice, which removes dampness because it absorbs humidity very well. Vinegar and spices like ginger also remove dampness, so my rice becomes a pratical device, which is why I don't want to cancel its property by oiling it. I cook it in the oven.

 

[Fractality]

I eyeball the quantity but I'd say at least 2 teaspoons per cup of legumes. I put them in a large glass bowl filled with water and the baking soda. Sometimes I change water every 12 hours but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Once this is done they will be much softer and take less time to cook.

I would always put the oil once it's cooked but most often I don't mix fat with rice, instead the oil go on veggies and legumes when I have them, or sometimes I swallow a teaspoon 20 mins after. I decided this based on Traditional Chinese Medicine's perspective. They believe in a condition called "dampness" and "damp-forming food" which extinguishes our digestive fire. They believe that this is the source of many diseases, as a weak digestive fire will allow pathogenic growth from incomplete digestion. Hippocrates also thought so "All diseases begin in the gut". Anyway, the point being is that oily, fatty food are considered damp-forming since they lubricate. Dairy is also considered damp-forming, as well as bananas and eating too much meat. And that finally brings us to rice, which removes dampness because it absorbs humidity very well. Vinegar and spices like ginger also remove dampness, so my rice becomes a pratical device, which is why I don't want to cancel its property by oiling it. I cook it in the oven (pyrex pot, with a pyrex plate on top).

I've had adzuki beans in dessert have you ever considered mixing them with sugar for a dessert like done in some Asian cuisines? I'm still experimenting and haven't yet been able to decide if I thrive on fructose. I've been eating pastured organic eggs, goat milk, grass fed beef/organic chicken with potatoes/rice, organic ice cream without gums, orange juice, kimchi, spinach. I've been wanting to reduce my dairy intake as an experiment but I find it difficult to replicate the anti-stress effects of casein and saturated fat. I've probably got a bit of a dairy opiate addiction as you and @Travis talk about on this forum.

 

[Elephanto]

I've had adzuki beans in dessert have you ever considered mixing them with sugar for a dessert like done in some Asian cuisines? I'm still experimenting and haven't yet been able to decide if I thrive on fructose. I've been eating pastured organic eggs, goat milk, grass fed beef with potatoes/rice, organic ice cream without gums, orange juice. I've been wanting to reduce my dairy intake as an experiment but I find it difficult to replicate the anti-stress effects of casein and saturated fat. I've probably got a bit of a dairy opiate addiction as you and @Travis talk about on this forum.

I haven't. I prefer to have a 20+ mins window between my meal and dessert, and the dessert has to be very easy to digest like an orange (has a study showing it cancels the TLR4-raising effect of a high fat meal for instance). It doesn't sound like legumes and sugar should go together, with some of the legumes fiber moving undigested and scraping stuff along the way, it makes them more practical if they are soaked in antibacterial stuff like olive/coconut oil, salt and spices instead of sugar. The latter could lead to undesirable fermentation in the colon.

 

[Elephanto]

I think a diet like that would work but at the expense of losing that childhood joy that is so precious. Similar to how monks eat and live, with a diet that is very bland and simple, which induces states that avoid that manic happiness that can be seen with children. You’ll live very long, be very focused on your goals, and take a very serious attitude. That’s certainly one way to live life, but is it the right way? maybe for certain individuals, who are willing to make that sacrifice.

What even is the right way, one can certainly live a good life without taking that approach. I think it’s important to realize the connection between how we eat and the conscious states it induces. There isn’t anything inherently wrong with inducing that intense, manic joy of childhood energy, so long that an adult with a mature development can direct that energy towards making others happy or creating something beautiful vs pursuing selfish, destructive ends. But it certainly is harder to maintain discipline with a diet that produces such high energy states, as a sucrose heavy diet would, and so if an individual weren’t able to maintain that discipline, than that potential is lost and wasted, and perhaps it’s better to eat a discipline inducing, calmer energy diet like starch, lentils, and veggies.

And perhaps maybe the two don’t need to be exclusive, but rather a healthy balance of the two can create what it really means to be human: diverse, adaptive, accommodating, creative. The ability to sit down and focus for hours as needed, and then when the moment is right, dance, celebrate, laugh, make love, and play, for life isn’t always serious, and if the universe is devoid of higher power, than it is those who treasure these moments that may have it really all figured out.

Interesting post. Makes me think of this Bible quote "A man is not defiled by what enters his mouth, but by what comes out of it." True in the end, we have the potential of mindfulness that cannot be hindered by material things. Apparently monks are able to drink alcohol without feeling drunk. As we grow internally, natural inclinations change. In my case, I use the "put all the chances on your side" approach to grow until they become my natural inclinations. Like stopping to eat meat made me lose the craving before it felt like a spiritual weight and now it does. It's not a weight of bad conscience and I don't feel much remorse when I take exception, I just find it changes the way I react and how I instinctively want to be. I like that it makes my sweat odor non-existent, seems like a sign of health. These dead matters probably contribute to detrimental gut and colon floras even when taking all kinds of protective measures in my experience.

That said, it's like you're comparing a Peat diet to a keto diet. My diet is very high energy, moreso than a milk and sugar diet from my experience and scientific analysis. You also create energy by moving and maintain it by being at peace. It is less instantly pleasurable, but makes you look for pleasure and happiness in higher things. These dependencies create depression and unhapiness in the long run, in between the manic phases. Children are high energy and high metabolism because they have been poisoining themselves for a much shorter time than adults. The damage is cumulative, just like adults lose their taste for sweetness by being too damaged to withstand it. So I think it's more "despite" than "because" of their diets.

 

[Runenight201]

I agree that the more accustomed to a way of eating we become, the more our taste buds and cravings change towards that way of eating, as long as that way of eating is something that is truly good for us. There certainly are foods that don't need to be a staple, such as meat, and in fact having it a staple was probably unheard of, seeing as how hard it was to get flesh from an evolutionary perspective (although I'd be interested to see some theories/literature on the subject). If we think about our evolution from apes as well, who subsist on a high carbohydrate diet, it would make sense that our immediate humanoid ancestors also ate a high carbohydrate diet, slowly shifting to one including more protein and fat from animal sources, but I don't think that shift has occurred in any substantial direction. Something like flesh once a week might be sufficient/necessary, and anything more than a couple times a week could be too much, but that is me just theorizing.

I do believe that your sweat odor being non existent is a good sign, and one thing many people state about being on a keto diet is that they begin to obscenely smell. How someone else smells instantly tells us about their internal health, hence why we like being around good smelling people and staying away from those who smell bad. I believe it's another attraction cue, on top of physical appearance. Problem is we use colognes, perfumes, and such to trick the senses and give false indicators of health, in the same way woman use makeup to mirage their true beauty/health, and is something we should be cognitive of when choosing partners.

I believe I may have misspoke by saying a starch, lentil, and veggie diet is low energy. Certainly, as long as carbs are being ingested, more energy will be produced as opposed to a fat heavy diet, but what I mean to say that is it won't be as intense as the energy that including higher amounts of sucrose would bring, at least from my experience.

And to your last point, I agree that children have much better recovery systems than adults do, and perhaps even are better at utilizing ingested energy, and have much less cumulative damage done, but as adults its completely possible to support the mechanisms of our recovery systems, improve our energy utilization, and repair the cumulative damage, through proper diet and lifestyle. A new car is further from catastrophic failure than a used one, but a properly maintained vehicle is able to go just as far on the same tank of gas and achieve the same max velocity, assuming there has been proper maintenance and care taken.

 

[Fractality]

I eyeball the quantity but I'd say at least 2 teaspoons per cup of legumes. I put them in a large glass bowl filled with water and the baking soda. Sometimes I change water every 12 hours but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Once this is done they will be much softer and take less time to cook.

I would always put the oil once it's cooked but most often I don't mix fat with rice, instead the oil go on veggies and legumes when I have them, or sometimes I swallow a teaspoon 20 mins after.

Last time I tried sprouting lentils they went bad. I put them in a ventilated mason jar in a dark cupboard. Do you boil the sprouted legumes? For how long? Sprouted legumes with coconut or olive oil, salt (or another seasoning), and a side of rice sounds simple, cheap, and tasty. What are your thoughts on a kimchi sauce or actual kimchi on top of the rice? I've enjoyed that.

 

[Travis]

I've had adzuki beans in dessert have you ever considered mixing them with sugar for a dessert like done in some Asian cuisines? I'm still experimenting and haven't yet been able to decide if I thrive on fructose. I've been eating pastured organic eggs, goat milk, grass fed beef/organic chicken with potatoes/rice, organic ice cream without gums, orange juice, kimchi, spinach. I've been wanting to reduce my dairy intake as an experiment but I find it difficult to replicate the anti-stress effects of casein and saturated fat. I've probably got a bit of a dairy opiate addiction as you and @Travis talk about on this forum.

Ahh, but remember: Sheep and goat β-casomorphin have lower opiate activity, and these animals produce non-immunogenic FRα. Goat milk and caprine cheese are also never homogenized, and even higher in its eponymous capric (10∶0), caprylic (8∶0), and caproic (6∶0) fatty acids. These are short-chained omega−∅ fatty acids, very metabolically-efficient, yet I think at least one should be named after the coconut: I propose we all call 8∶0 cocosic acid from now on.

 

[Elephanto]

Last time I tried sprouting lentils they went bad. I put them in a ventilated mason jar in a dark cupboard. Do you boil the sprouted legumes? For how long? Sprouted legumes with coconut or olive oil, salt (or another seasoning), and a side of rice sounds simple, cheap, and tasty. What are your thoughts on a kimchi sauce or actual kimchi on top of the rice? I've enjoyed that.

They don't sprout, soaking is a different process. I put the bowl in the refrigerator, sprouting requires room temperature and I think the bicarbonate sodium (which is to break down the outerlayer and anti-nutrients) prevent sprouting. Yes I boil them, about 30 mins or so. Higher temp during the first 10 minutes. They end up not looking like the usual legumes salad you can buy in stores but rather like lentil soup. I warm them up on the next meal as I prefer warm food. Haven't tried Kimchi sauce but a quick search on pubmed informs me that it contains lactic acid producing probiotics, which is probably best to avoid.

Ahh, but remember: Sheep and goat β-casomorphin have lower opiate activity, and these animals produce non-immunogenic FRα. Goat milk and caprine cheese are also never homogenized, and even higher in its eponymous capric (10∶0), caprylic (8∶0), and caproic (6∶0) fatty acids. These are short-chained omega−∅ fatty acids, very metabolically-efficient, yet I think at least one should be named after the coconut: I propose we all call 8∶0 cocosic acid from now on.

I actually tried goat milk as well as A2 milk from Jersey cow and find they give a similar effect. I think the adhesive nature of casein is part of the effect.

 

[Atman]

Lots of cope in this thread. The only constant is that children hate bitter flavors.

Children love protein and starch and PUFA. Some also love sugar.

I haven't met a single child who doesn't love sweet foods.
And they don't love PUFA, they love fatty foods. You literally can't taste PUFA, you can only taste aromatic substances dissolved in fat.

 

[lvysaur]

I haven't met a single child who doesn't love sweet foods.

Never cared for sweet as a kid. Only craved salty/fatty/protein.

 

[Waremu]

They don't sprout, soaking is a different process. I put the bowl in the refrigerator, sprouting requires room temperature and I think the bicarbonate sodium (which is to break down the outerlayer and anti-nutrients) prevent sprouting. Yes I boil them, about 30 mins or so. Higher temp during the first 10 minutes. They end up not looking like the usual legumes salad you can buy in stores but rather like lentil soup. I warm them up on the next meal as I prefer warm food. Haven't tried Kimchi sauce but a quick search on pubmed informs me that it contains lactic acid producing probiotics, which is probably best to avoid.


I actually tried goat milk as well as A2 milk from Jersey cow and find they give a similar effect. I think the adhesive nature of casein is part of the effect.

Funny how different your experience is from mine. I had major issues with store-bought milk, but raw A-2/goat milk doesn't at all give me the same effects. And legumes wreck havoc on my gut...major serotonin issues from the starch. White rice is the only starch I tolerate well, in moderation.

 

[Elephanto]

Funny how different your experience is from mine. I had major issues with store-bought milk, but raw A-2/goat milk doesn't at all give me the same effects. And legume wreck havoc on my gut...major serotonin issues from the starch.

Did you properly soak them with baking soda for 24-48 hours ? What kind of starch ? Wheat, potatoes and oats damage gut linings (from gluten and saponins respectively). Jasmine rice is much higher in starch than basmati which is the less starchy of all types, and the rice should be washed and drained properly to reduce the starch content even more. I've read/watched several asian cooks claim they repeat this process several times. Those are traditional practices that long-lived people (blue zones) use to prepare these foods and they are essential. And personally, not all legumes agree with me (and I don't think all are healthy; for instance red kidney beans and broad beans). I just find adzuki beans and lentils to be the most agreeable, especially when boiled to a point where they lose their original shape since they're so soft and broken down.

 

[Waremu]

Did you properly soak them with baking soda for 24-48 hours ? What kind of starch ? Wheat, potatoes and oats damage gut linings (from gluten and saponins respectively). Jasmine rice is much higher in starch than basmati which is the less starchy of all types, and the rice should be washed and drained properly to reduce the starch content even more. I've read/watched several asian cooks claim they repeat this process several times. Those are traditional practices that long-lived people (blue zones) use to prepare these foods and they are essential. And personally, not all legumes agree with me (and I don't think all are healthy; for instance red kidney beans and broad beans). I just find adzuki beans and lentils to be the most agreeable, especially when boiled to a point where they lose their original shape since they're so soft and broken down.

Yep. Tried all methods, including soaking it in lemon juice/vinegar for 1-2 days, and even sprouting. Yes, I rinse rice off and soak the rice when I consume it. I boil it like pasta, the more traditional way. White rice is the only starch I can handle on occasion. Digestion gets noticeably worse and depression significantly increases when I add more starchy carbs in. It just doesn't provide me the energy and mental clarity honey/fruit/fresh fruit juice does. I also have to eat carrots 1-2 times per day and notice the negative effects if I don't get the right kind of fibers, which further suggests that it's an endotoxin problem that is worsened by the starch.

 

[Fractality]

Ahh, but remember: Sheep and goat β-casomorphin have lower opiate activity, and these animals produce non-immunogenic FRα. Goat milk and caprine cheese are also never homogenized, and even higher in its eponymous capric (10∶0), caprylic (8∶0), and caproic (6∶0) fatty acids. These are short-chained omega−∅ fatty acids, very metabolically-efficient, yet I think at least one should be named after the coconut: I propose we all call 8∶0 cocosic acid from now on.

Yep, thanks for the reminder. I don't foresee myself eliminating goat milk from my diet. It's too convenient. I'm looking for more of a replacement for muscle meat. Adzuki beans are not that bad. They have constipated me thus far though.