Approaching Mid 40's And The Wheels Starting To Fall Off?

[Iron Man]

Approaching mid 40's...
Testosterone has been lowish for quite some time (202 - 280). Apparently not low enough for the Doc to put me on anything. I don't really want to go on TRT anyway.
Belly fat is getting hard to lose and considering being the long time bodybuilder that I am, I notice muscle hardness isn't what it should be.
I have never been particularly hairy, but am now seeing lots of grey hair on my belly.
I'm starting to feel old too and just not so energetic.
Just wondering what is going on here...
With the low testosterone, it is remarkable (in my opinion) that I have the muscle that I have. In another thread, I'm discussing options with considerations along the lines of AAS even (not something that I thought I would ever consider).
Boosting testosterone naturally seems impossible and reading research on Examine.com or Ergolog.com, the research seems to say only real way is artificially.
With approaching mid 40's, I would like to get myself some more muscle and get in even better shape to help support me into later life.
Stats wise... I'm currently about 210lbs and want to get down to about 200lbs. Arms would be about 17" - 17.5". Chest/back is about 49". Waist I'm not sure, but I'm trying to make it slimmer. Height is close to 6ft.
Any thoughts or opinions here?

 

[Peater]

Have you read the DMSO testosterone threads?

Understand your reticence to go full blown TRT but this might be worth trying

 

[tankasnowgod]

Approaching mid 40's...
Testosterone has been lowish for quite some time (202 - 280). Apparently not low enough for the Doc to put me on anything. I don't really want to go on TRT anyway.
Belly fat is getting hard to lose and considering being the long time bodybuilder that I am, I notice muscle hardness isn't what it should be.
I have never been particularly hairy, but am now seeing lots of grey hair on my belly.
I'm starting to feel old too and just not so energetic.
Just wondering what is going on here...
With the low testosterone, it is remarkable (in my opinion) that I have the muscle that I have. In another thread, I'm discussing options with considerations along the lines of AAS even (not something that I thought I would ever consider).
Boosting testosterone naturally seems impossible and reading research on Examine.com or Ergolog.com, the research seems to say only real way is artificially.
With approaching mid 40's, I would like to get myself some more muscle and get in even better shape to help support me into later life.
Stats wise... I'm currently about 210lbs and want to get down to about 200lbs. Arms would be about 17" - 17.5". Chest/back is about 49". Waist I'm not sure, but I'm trying to make it slimmer. Height is close to 6ft.
Any thoughts or opinions here?

I'm a similar age, and I'm trying Exemestane, Pregenenolone, and DHEA. Only been a couple weeks, but it's going well so far. I plan on doing blood tests in early January (that will be about a month on this protocol). The AI + Precursors route is apparently very promising. Dr. Marcus Gitterle wrote a document on this idea, (he suggests very low dose letrozole +DHEA), and says the patients he used it with much prefer it to TRT.

 

[lampofred]

Have you checked your vitamin D levels? How much protein do you get daily?

 

[redred]

change to winter tyres

 

[redred]

Have you checked your vitamin D levels? How much protein do you get daily?

peat really love telling people to get vit d lol

 

[Iron Man]

Have you read the DMSO testosterone threads?

Understand your reticence to go full blown TRT but this might be worth trying

Thanks for the post. Can you please provide the links, so I can take a look?
I spoke to the Doc about testosterone and he isn't willing to put me on it. He says my lab work doesn't convince him enough to prescribe it to me. I agree with him that it is a life sentence and I would prefer another route. Maybe what you are saying is another route...

 

[Iron Man]

I'm a similar age, and I'm trying Exemestane, Pregenenolone, and DHEA. Only been a couple weeks, but it's going well so far. I plan on doing blood tests in early January (that will be about a month on this protocol). The AI + Precursors route is apparently very promising. Dr. Marcus Gitterle wrote a document on this idea, (he suggests very low dose letrozole +DHEA), and says the patients he used it with much prefer it to TRT.

Thanks for your post. I am interested in reading up on what you have shared. Do you have any links?
It would be fantastic to see your results if you are happy to post them. I see so many threads where people trial something, but don't post lab results and this makes it hard to determine whether something has been beneficial or not.

 

[Iron Man]

Have you checked your vitamin D levels? How much protein do you get daily?

I get about 5,000 IU of vitamin D3 a day and have done so for about 10 years now. Protein per day... I'm not sure at the moment as I don't log it really.
Thanks,

 

[Blossom]

Someone here told me about this interesting book. I think it’s worth reading even if you don’t agree with everything in it.
Testosterone is Your Friend

 

[tankasnowgod]

Thanks for your post. I am interested in reading up on what you have shared. Do you have any links?
It would be fantastic to see your results if you are happy to post them. I see so many threads where people trial something, but don't post lab results and this makes it hard to determine whether something has been beneficial or not.

I do plan on posting them when I get them. Might start a thread at that time.

User Franko seemed to get a bump in Test from AIs. He posted his results in a bunch of random areas, and kept jumping onto different protocols, but this quote sums up his overall experience-

Doing nothing, my TT is in the low 300s. When I was on 12.5mg exemestane ED it was 537. When I was on 2.5mg Letrozole ED + 175mg TestE per week it was 1,500+.

I didn't really notice a difference between 537 and 1,500+ but there is a big difference between 300 and 500.

You could probably track down his labs if you search his history. But his results are in line with a few studies I've seen on both Letrozole and Exemestane in men. I don't think Franko was using precursors like Preg/DHEA, but neither were the studies.

Here's an overview of studies that used AIs in Men- Aromatase inhibitors in men: effects and therapeutic options

Here is the protocol Dr. Gitterle recommends- For Men Only. Before You Try Testosterone Replacement. Marcus L. Gitterle, M.D. The Synergy Matrix TM Guide to Male Hormone Optimization - PDF Free Download

 

[Iron Man]

Someone here told me about this interesting book. I think it’s worth reading even if you don’t agree with everything in it.
Testosterone is Your Friend

Thanks Blossom. I will take a loom at this. Boosting testosterone naturally seems nearly impossible and when you look through all the research on Examine.com, a lot of doubt is cast in my mind...

 

[Iron Man]

I do plan on posting them when I get them. Might start a thread at that time.

User Franko seemed to get a bump in Test from AIs. He posted his results in a bunch of random areas, and kept jumping onto different protocols, but this quote sums up his overall experience-



You could probably track down his labs if you search his history. But his results are in line with a few studies I've seen on both Letrozole and Exemestane in men. I don't think Franko was using precursors like Preg/DHEA, but neither were the studies.

Here's an overview of studies that used AIs in Men- Aromatase inhibitors in men: effects and therapeutic options

Here is the protocol Dr. Gitterle recommends- For Men Only. Before You Try Testosterone Replacement. Marcus L. Gitterle, M.D. The Synergy Matrix TM Guide to Male Hormone Optimization - PDF Free Download

Thanks and thanks for the links!
I have heard of AI's, but only with regards to coming off steroid cycles. This interests me a lot and hopefully it is a legitimate alternative to Testosterone.
With regards to gaining muscle, has there been any research done there?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Thanks and thanks for the links!
I have heard of AI's, but only with regards to coming off steroid cycles. This interests me a lot and hopefully it is a legitimate alternative to Testosterone.
With regards to gaining muscle, has there been any research done there?

Don't know about that, but Haidut has posted some ideas that building muscle is more "anti-catabolic" than "anabolic."

Structural Requirements For An Optimal Anti-Catabolic Steroid

Progesterone Is As Anabolic For Muscle As Testosterone (in Women)

Everything that I'm using is pretty close to the "Anti-Catabolic Stack" It's still only two weeks, but I do think my muscles are fuller and more "jacked" feeling. I think this has a lot of potential. I think it would develop men more to the "Classic" bodybuilder look, rather than the "Genetic Monster" look that is popular in that world today.

 

[Markus]

Some DHEA could be helpful but I wouldn't advice taking AI's as they can have other negative side effects - specifically with regards to cardiovascular disease. If you want to control estrogen I would rather recommend taking 6-keto P4 and/or androsterone. However, many experts question the benefits of lowering estrogen in a case when it is not elevated.

 

[ExCarniv]

42 here.

I'm in better shape than my 20s, the best I did for my health was:

Dropped 25kg
Added carbs back (while controlling calories)
Started to lift weights to pack some muscle
Play a sport under the sun.

Currently only taking Magnesium, Creatine and a Multivitamin.

 

[Iron Man]

42 here.

I'm in better shape than my 20s, the best I did for my health was:

Dropped 25kg
Added carbs back (while controlling calories)
Started to lift weights to pack some muscle
Play a sport under the sun.

Currently only taking Magnesium, Creatine and a Multivitamin.

I've been a long time bodybuilder and as I approach mid 40's, slimming down is getting quite difficult now. Quite difficult! I keep trying though.

 

[haidut]

Approaching mid 40's...
Testosterone has been lowish for quite some time (202 - 280). Apparently not low enough for the Doc to put me on anything. I don't really want to go on TRT anyway.
Belly fat is getting hard to lose and considering being the long time bodybuilder that I am, I notice muscle hardness isn't what it should be.
I have never been particularly hairy, but am now seeing lots of grey hair on my belly.
I'm starting to feel old too and just not so energetic.
Just wondering what is going on here...
With the low testosterone, it is remarkable (in my opinion) that I have the muscle that I have. In another thread, I'm discussing options with considerations along the lines of AAS even (not something that I thought I would ever consider).
Boosting testosterone naturally seems impossible and reading research on Examine.com or Ergolog.com, the research seems to say only real way is artificially.
With approaching mid 40's, I would like to get myself some more muscle and get in even better shape to help support me into later life.
Stats wise... I'm currently about 210lbs and want to get down to about 200lbs. Arms would be about 17" - 17.5". Chest/back is about 49". Waist I'm not sure, but I'm trying to make it slimmer. Height is close to 6ft.
Any thoughts or opinions here?

The low T but decent muscles, combined with body hairiness and belly fat creeping up on you suggest low gonadal function and adrenal hyperactivity. This can be maintained for a few more years but once DHEA starts to steeply drop (as it does for most people after 40), unless cortisol/estrogen are brought under control the muscles will melt and all that remains is fat. I have quite a few friends that went through this period of intense "athleticism" where they kept pushing themselves quite a bit and it seemed to work initially as their muscles seemed OK and they were keeping their BMI close to where the doctor wanted it. However, without an exception, they all hit a wall around 45 and when they got their steroids tested, T was in the hypogonadal range, DHEA was below the lower range, cortisol was at the very top of normal or above, and some of them had high prolactin too. TRT is an option but the safer and more physiological approach seems to be to combine an AI with a precursor like pregnenolone/DHEA or progesterone/DHEA. The AI will take care of estrogen and the pregnenolone/progesterone/DHEA will oppose cortisol. Thyroid function is also important as it's what determines how well gonads will work. Letrozole and anastrozole are not good AI in my opinion. Steroidal ones such as exemestane, formestane, and atamestane are safer and they have steroidal effects of their own that at least partially fill in for T.

 

[Peater]

The low T but decent muscles, combined with body hairiness and belly fat creeping up on you suggest low gonadal function and adrenal hyperactivity. This can be maintained for a few more years but once DHEA starts to steeply drop (as it does for most people after 40), unless cortisol/estrogen are brought under control the muscles will melt and all that remains is fat. I have quite a few friends that went through this period of intense "athleticism" where they kept pushing themselves quite a bit and it seemed to work initially as their muscles seemed OK and they were keeping their BMI close to where the doctor wanted it. However, without an exception, they all hit a wall around 45 and when they got their steroids tested, T was in the hypogonadal range, DHEA was below the lower range, cortisol was at the very top of normal or above, and some of them had high prolactin too. TRT is an option but the safer and more physiological approach seems to be to combine an AI with a precursor like pregnenolone/DHEA or progesterone/DHEA. The AI will take care of estrogen and the pregnenolone/progesterone/DHEA will oppose cortisol. Thyroid function is also important as it's what determines how well gonads will work. Letrozole and anastrozole are not good AI in my opinion. Steroidal ones such as exemestane, formestane, and atamestane are safer and they have steroidal effects of their own that at least partially fill in for T.

How about the adrenal hyperactivity side of things?

 

[haidut]

How about the adrenal hyperactivity side of things?

It is due mostly to estrogen. In women it manifests as PCOS. A decent AI combined with some anti-cortisol precursors usually can take care of these issues but thyroid function should also be monitored as it plays a big factor in gonadal synthesis. Not much T can be synthesized in gonads without enough T3 in the blood. In addition, TSH directly inhibits gonadal function so keeping it below 1 is another factor in improving endogenous androgen synthesis.