Applying Peat Principles To Veganism: Incredible Results

[Waremu]

Yeah sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that most people suffering from B12 deficiency eat alot of meat, dairy and eggs. That was the only reason I referenced the doc, because he told me that was his exact experience.

It's more complicated than that. Many people who eat meat have other issues which may also lead to low B-12 levels. It's like filling up a car with gas while it has a hole in the tank and leaks it as you fill it up. Then someone says, 'look, cars don't need gas to run because the car isn't working and if gas mad the car run, it would be runnin' right now.' Digestive problems are a very common issue in todays population and it also can be a cause of low B-12 levels. For example, a lesser-known side effect of SIBO is vitamin B-12 deficiency. Not even many doctors know this as well as they should. Many elderly people have reduced gastric acid. This will greatly impede B-12 absorption as well. So someone could be eating meat but if they are constipated and/or have digestive issues, they may not be absorbing it. Similar to how people blame carbs for the inability to metabolize glucose at the ideal level of metabolic efficiency. Also, the term 'meat eater' can mean anyone who eats a heavy meat diet to someone who only eats a little meat, which may not be enough to maintain their B-12 levels, especially if they did long-term vegan diets for years without B-12 supplementation or already have SIBO or other digestive problems. There are so many factors to consider and the correlation of people who eat meat and have B-12 deficiency in of itself means very little. Autoimmune diseases are also a factor; even inflammation (Crohn's disease, etc.), tapeworms, and even surgeries. Even NSAID pain-relieving medications can greatly impede B-12 absorption. Many people are on those and suffer from one or two of the other problems mentioned above.

 

[Waremu]

Thanks for the article, I'll have a look at it. Like I said above, my bloods show high levels of zinc and the other minerals so I don't seem to be having any issues with absorption or utilisation.

It is ideal to at least continue to monitor how you feel and future blood work, so that is good.

 

[Jennifer]

I think they measure your levels pretty accurately.

Were you given a methylmalonic acid test? That's a pretty accurate B12 test. I was given a standard one, but then asked my doctor if she could order the MMA test and my B12 deficiency was discovered. This was a few months ago, after 4 years of veganism (the last 3 of them I ate a fruitarian diet). However, I wasn't supplementing because all forms I tried caused migraines. Anyway, the best I ever felt and the best blood work I ever had (I've gotten it every couple of months for the past 12+ years) was while I was on a fruitarian diet so I can understand you feeling good on plant-based.

 

[methylenewhite]

@Ritchie would you mind posting here your lab results? Not that I don't believe what you say it's more like to convince me.

I'm honestly thinking of getting back to plant-based diet. Even that I had some bad experience with various plant-based diets.

PS chickpeas are super high in PUFA.

 

[Ritchie]

Were you given a methylmalonic acid test? That's a pretty accurate B12 test. I was given a standard one, but then asked my doctor if she could order the MMA test and my B12 deficiency was discovered. This was a few months ago, after 4 years of veganism (the last 3 of them I ate a fruitarian diet). However, I wasn't supplementing because all forms I tried caused migraines. Anyway, the best I ever felt and the best blood work I ever had (I've gotten it every couple of months for the past 12+ years) was while I was on a fruitarian diet so I can understand you feeling good on plant-based.

I'm not sure the specific test, I can find out next time I get my bloods done in a few months. So you are saying checking blood levels of B12 isn't accurate?

 

[Ritchie]

@Ritchie would you mind posting here your lab results? Not that I don't believe what you say it's more like to convince me.

I'm honestly thinking of getting back to plant-based diet. Even that I had some bad experience with various plant-based diets.

PS chickpeas are super high in PUFA.

My lab results are with my doc but I'll be doing bloods again in a few months and I can request a copy, then post them here if you like.
Yeah mate if you have any questions or anything let me know, i'm finding it fantastic.
I eat a variety of legumes and chickpeas are just one of them, but as far as chickpeas go, I've looked into that and they are quite low overall in fat, with about half of that being saturated/mono and half being PUFA. A couple of large eggs, for example, have more PUFA than an entire cup of chicpeas. I think in general avoiding concentrated forms of PUFA, particularly that aren't in whole food form like veg oils, fish oils and so forth is the most important. Of course it is always good to minimise PUFA intake, but if getting a small amount of PUFA from whole foods, as long as that is being balanced out with a good amount of saturated fat from say coconut oil and a decent amount of vitamin E in the diet, I don't think it is such a concern (as controversial as that may be haha).

 

[Jennifer]

I'm not sure the specific test, I can find out next time I get my bloods done in a few months. So you are saying checking blood levels of B12 isn't accurate?

I've read that levels on a standard test are rarely abnormal except in cases of severe deficiency and can even be high for those with the MTHFR gene mutation. Your levels could very well be fine — I have a different take on B12 deficiencies and was actually looking for confirmation of an adrenal and thyroid issue when I asked my doctor to order the test — I just thought I'd mention the MMA test since you guys were discussing the accuracy of B12 testing.

Oh, and not that I believe it's a concern but I've seen the inflammatory AAs and high phosphorus of meat/seafood and beans argument here since the time I first became a member and decided to calculate the AAs and phosphorus content of different protein sources, including ones some might consider poor sources — greens and mushrooms — based on the same grams of protein for each and found that they all had similar amounts and in the case of potatoes, white rice, mushrooms and greens, they're actually higher in some of the inflammatory AAs and phosphorus than even meat/seafood. Meat/seafood contains more glycine on average, too.

 

[ExCarniv]

Good for you, I was vegan for 2 years in my 20s, felt great the first year then lot of issues came in, lost my hair, lost a tooth, gained 40lbs, etc everyone is different I think.

Btw oats, almonds, beans seems like very far from a Peat perspective, but if you feel good, that's all about.

 

[DennisX]

So as the title implies, I have been eating a vegan/plant based diet for the past 2.5 years or so. For about 3 years before that I was following a very well adhered to Peat inspired diet of milk, cheese, fruits, fruit juice, sugars, liver, some gelatinous meat cuts, gelatin, eggs, coffee, chocolate. Like many I didn't feel great eating this way and issues were arising.. Metabolism wasn't good, sleep wasn't great, and was getting what seemed to be endotoxic and estrogenic symptoms despite doing everything in attempt to achieve the opposite. I kept at it, read all of Peat's works along with reading a lot of this forum. The more I researched and thought about all the factors, though, the more my path led me toward a plant based diet and the more I realised certain foods I was eating were likely causing me health detriment despite eating them in an attempt to achieve optimal health. A lot here may not agree but I would say that a Peat perspective and paradigm approach to nutrition actually leads to a more plant based way of eating when thought about logically and consistently, particularly when some of his lets say weaker claims are thought through and ironed out.
I am now completely plant based. I eat lots of sweet juicy fruits, lots of orange juice and sugars, I eat lots of legumes such as lentils, black beans, red kidney beans, chic peas and the like. I eat cooked leafy greens and other cooked vegetables including mushrooms. I eat coconut oil, avocado, some nuts like almonds, dark chocolate, coffee, potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, drink coke regularly and in general eat quite liberally. No meat and no dairy, no eggs although I do have some oysters once a month for the b12. I have progressively felt better and better, my temps have come up strongly, heart rate is good and strong, sleep is fantastic, feeling calm yet energised with a clear mindstate and my gym training is insane, recovery good and feeling very strong.
Now, I didn't want to make a post like this here until I had given it some time to adjust properly and see how the results are and how I'm feeling. After two and a half years I can 100% say that this is the best i've felt, best i've looked as well. I don't take any supplements anymore and don't feel I need them, I used to take t3 and t4 along with a bunch of other Peaty sups like cypro and pregnenolone and dhea, but have completely cut all that out and feel so much better for it. My bloods are on point, had them done recently and T is strong, estrogen low, thyroid at really good levels and everything else is great.
From the Peat perspective, I can think of a few reasons as to why this is working so well:
1.Very low tryptophan, methionine and cysteine as the plant based proteins are naturally low in these amino acids.
2. Zero heme iron.
3. Zero mamillian estrogens from the meat, dairy and eggs.
4. High energy, high sugar, high carbohydrate.
5. Low PUFA, good amount of coconut oil to keep the balance of saturated to unsaturated fats in a good ratio.
6. No IGF-1 or casomorphins from the dairy.
7. Zero of the controversial preformed vitamin A found in meat, liver, eggs, dairy.
8. Good quality protein from the legumes, potatoes, etc with very good amino acid profile.
9. Low phosphorus since animal products are the highest in this mineral.
10. No potential for eating oxidised cholesterol.
I'll leave it at that for now..
If anyone has any questions, critiques, challenges or anything else let me know, happy to answer and engage in discussion..

I’m a vegan as well for the last 3 years. The major problems I find is that plant protein is not absorbed as well as meat protein. In order to get enough protein a day and not have my fiber up at 80 gms, I have to supplement with a vegan protein powder. I work out with weights 4-5 times a week and need to supplement with 60gms of vegan protein powder during workout days. I mentioned fiber above. If I wanted to get that amount of protein from extra beans or legumes or organic soy, my fiber intake would be 80-100 grams and I’d be pooping 6 times a day and 3 times at night! A question, why did you exclude organic soy products like tempeh and tofu from you diet?

 

[boxers]

What are your macros?

 

[Sativa]

There's word that B12 & folate supplementation can be undesirable regarding influence on methylation etc... search for forum for that... I used to eat methyl-B12, but since i chose not to limit myself by being vegan I simplified/enhanced my life & eat egg yolks/gelatin.
Also, typically conventional thought is for vegans to supplement iron, another Peat 'faux pas'.
I also love how conventional vegan thought is that high PUFA nuts are viable protein sources... at least defatted peanut butter loses its PUFAs lol!

Rays insights on a sustainable vegan approach:

"Ray,
If someone was a dedicated vegan and they ate no animal products at all, it seems to me that the lack of casein from milk and the lack of glycine from oxtail soup/other animal glycine sources, would be the only real concern due to potential liver problems because of the lack thereof. But given your recent comments on the high protein quality of mushrooms and the high quality protein of potato, do you think if a vegan got most of their calories from quality fruits, some fruit juice, potatoes with coconut oil, mushrooms, and well cooked green leaves for calcium that as long as they have good blood tests for liver function/liver enzymes and thyroid function that they could be healthy?"

Ray Peat responds:
Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:05 PM
Re: Casein and glycine deficiency
"Yes, I think those goods can provide enough protein in a good balance of amino acids."

Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:42 PM
Re: Casein and glycine deficiency
"And as far as vitamin A, I know that with enough B12 and good thyroid function, enough carotene will be converted into A. As far as iodine and selenium, a vegan should get enough from those foods, especially iodine because the requirement is so small. The signs of a selenium deficiency could be the same as the typical hypothyroid symptoms but usually the very rare Keshan disease, but with an abundance of those foods, a vegan should get enough selenium. As far as endotoxin, a vegan would be more than happy to use raw carrots and bamboo shoots to keep things moving. But a high fruit diet naturally keeps things moving as well."

Ray Peat responds:
Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:25 PM
Re: Casein and glycine deficiency
"PUFA can react with iodine to make antithyroid compounds, so iodine deficiency is less likely when the diet is low in those."

 

[Ritchie]

I've read that levels on a standard test are rarely abnormal except in cases of severe deficiency and can even be high for those with the MTHFR gene mutation. Your levels could very well be fine — I have a different take on B12 deficiencies and was actually looking for confirmation of an adrenal and thyroid issue when I asked my doctor to order the test — I just thought I'd mention the MMA test since you guys were discussing the accuracy of B12 testing.

OK thanks I'll keep that in mind next time i get bloods done.

Oh, and not that I believe it's a concern but I've seen the inflammatory AAs and high phosphorus of meat/seafood and beans argument here since the time I first became a member and decided to calculate the AAs and phosphorus content of different protein sources, including ones some might consider poor sources — greens and mushrooms — based on the same grams of protein for each and found that they all had similar amounts and in the case of potatoes, white rice, mushrooms and greens, they're actually higher in some of the inflammatory AAs and phosphorus than even meat/seafood. Meat/seafood contains more glycine on average, too.

From what I've seen Methionine is consistently greater in animal proteins by multiplications of degrees. Tryptophan is usually higher in animal proteins but I agree on a gram for gram measure it is occasionally equal. Cysteine is usually quite substantially higher as well. The other thing to consider is that the body can only absorb and process a certain amount of protein at each meal, the rest will usually be converted to glucose for use as energy or fat (increasing stress hormones if chronically done since it is a taxing process for the body to do, Peat has emphasised this over and over and the research and evidence is in agreement, hence his focus on getting the bulk of calories from carbohydrates rather than protein or fat). So eating less protein, but an adequate amount, at each meal is going to be better. People often tend to eat way to much protein when consuming animal products since they are just so high in it, including these amino acids tryptophan, methionine and cysteine. So it may be the case that gram for gram tryptophan is similar sometimes, but on a plant based diet overall one will be consuming way less of it. Phosphorus the same. There's certainly a significant amount of glycine in plant proteins, in lentils for example the amount of glycine is almost 7 times the amount of tryptophan, methionine and cysteine. In potatoes its double. The idea that glycine isn't in plant proteins is quite unfounded. Regardless, because of all the positives I've read about glycine, I keep some powder and add a small teaspoon to smoothies occasionally. Although I think that part of the benefit of glycine is that it balances out the high amounts of the other bad AAs when eaten in conjunction with a high animal protein diet.

 

[Ritchie]

Good for you, I was vegan for 2 years in my 20s, felt great the first year then lot of issues came in, lost my hair, lost a tooth, gained 40lbs, etc everyone is different I think
Btw oats, almonds, beans seems like very far from a Peat perspective, but if you feel good, that's all about.

Yeah i'm finding applying Peats principles of high carb and high sugar, low PUFA, some saturated fat, decent amount of protein, coffee, chocolate, etc is fantastic. Perhaps in your 20s you weren't eating that way? I think the trap with a vegan diet is that many eat lots of veg oils and concentrated forms of PUFAs while attempting to cut out sugars and carbs. That would equal disaster.

As far as oats go, they are quite in line with Peats perspective: high in energy/carbohydrate/glucose to support a strong metabolism, good amount of well balanced protein, good amounts of other micros. I cook them in water (reducing the water), and eat them with ripe bananas, berries, dates, coconut flakes, maple syrup, sometimes add some chocolate broken up into it.. so all the sugars provide plenty of fructose to balance out the potential for any blood sugar spike from the starch. Almonds are very high in vitamin E, have a good amount of calcium and nice protein ratios, I don't eat heaps of them but a few here and there. Beans when well prepared (i.e. cooked well, maybe soaked as well) are a great source of protein (well balanced aminos) and carbs. I often eat them with coconut oil and other veges like potatoes, kale and so forth. Peat's objection to beans would probably be the phytates but from what I've researched, and experienced, cooking and preparing eliminates this concern.

 

[Jennifer]

OK thanks I'll keep that in mind next time i get bloods done.

From what I've seen Methionine is consistently greater in animal proteins by multiplications of degrees. Tryptophan is usually higher in animal proteins but I agree on a gram for gram measure it is occasionally equal. Cysteine is usually quite substantially higher as well. The other thing to consider is that the body can only absorb and process a certain amount of protein at each meal, the rest will usually be converted to glucose for use as energy or fat (increasing stress hormones if chronically done since it is a taxing process for the body to do, Peat has emphasised this over and over and the research and evidence is in agreement, hence his focus on getting the bulk of calories from carbohydrates rather than protein or fat). So eating less protein, but an adequate amount, at each meal is going to be better. People often tend to eat way to much protein when consuming animal products since they are just so high in it, including these amino acids tryptophan, methionine and cysteine. So it may be the case that gram for gram tryptophan is similar sometimes, but on a plant based diet overall one will be consuming way less of it. Phosphorus the same. There's certainly a significant amount of glycine in plant proteins, in lentils for example the amount of glycine is almost 7 times the amount of tryptophan, methionine and cysteine. In potatoes its double. The idea that glycine isn't in plant proteins is quite unfounded. Regardless, because of all the positives I've read about glycine, I keep some powder and add a small teaspoon to smoothies occasionally. Although I think that part of the benefit of glycine is that it balances out the high amounts of the other bad AAs when eaten in conjunction with a high animal protein diet.

You're welcome! :)

I'm not sure who said plants don't contain glycine but just to be clear, it wasn't me. I only said that meat/seafood contain more on average. Did you calculate based on grams of protein or grams of food? Ray told me that he recommends 100g of protein for active adults so I put in 100g of protein for each protein source I logged in cronometer and this is what I got:

Beans (pinto):
- Cystine: 0.9g (219%), Methionine: 1.3g (304%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (534%), Glycine: 4.1g, Phosphorus: 1631.7mg
Lettuce (green leaf):
- Cystine: 1.2g (276%), Methionine: 1.2g (276%), Tryptophan: 0.7g (295%), Glycine: 4.2g, Phosphorus: 2131.5mg
Potatoes (white w/o skin):
- Cystine: 1.3g (299%), Methionine: 1.6g (371%), Tryptophan: 1.5g (681%), Glycine: 3.0g, Phosphorus: 2550mg
Mushrooms:
- Cystine: 0.4g (97%), Methionine: 1.0g (238%), Tryptophan: 1.1g (493%), Glycine: 3.0g, Phosphorus: 4010.7mg
Rice (white):
- Cystine: 2.0g (479%), Methionine: 2.3g (549%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (513%), Glycine: 4.5g, Phosphorus: 1597.9mg
Scallops:
Cystine: 1.0g (233%), Methionine: 2.4g (556%), Tryptophan: 0.8g (375%), Glycine: 8.6g, Phosphorus: 2074.6mg
Chicken (breast, skin removed):
Cystine: 1.3g (300%), Methionine: 2.8g (648%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (520%), Glycine: 4.9g, Phosphorus: 698.8mg
Beef (sirloin, no visible fat eaten):
Cystine: 1.1g (247%), Methionine: 2.8g (656%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (534%), Glycine: 5.1g, Phosphorus: 903.2mg
Milk (1%):
Cystine: 0.6g (139%), Methionine: 2.6g (612%), Tryptophan: 1.3g (568%), Glycine: 2.0g, Phosphorus: 2819.8mg

Am I reading it wrong? Again, I personally don't worry about the AAs and phosphorus content, but questioned the inflammatory AAs and phosphorus argument based on what my crono logs were showing.

 

[Ritchie]

I’m a vegan as well for the last 3 years. The major problems I find is that plant protein is not absorbed as well as meat protein. In order to get enough protein a day and not have my fiber up at 80 gms, I have to supplement with a vegan protein powder. I work out with weights 4-5 times a week and need to supplement with 60gms of vegan protein powder during workout days. I mentioned fiber above. If I wanted to get that amount of protein from extra beans or legumes or organic soy, my fiber intake would be 80-100 grams and I’d be pooping 6 times a day and 3 times at night! A question, why did you exclude organic soy products like tempeh and tofu from you diet?

I train quite a bit as well, usually every second day and I don't find getting my protein requirements from plant based sources at all difficult. I'm not sure how much protein you're aiming for per day? I get up over 100 grams per day pretty easily, and if I want more than that I have an extra smoothie with some pea or hemp protein and that will bring me up an extra 20-30 gms. I'm 180cm or 5'11 and weigh around 85kg and I find that is plenty really, I'm recovering really well, feeling very strong with quick recovery time, making good strength gains and I feel very calm outside of training indicating to me low cortisol levels. I think it's a mistake to try to get too much protein, it could interfere with your body's use of carbohydrates among other issues. Ah yes I do eat some soy products like tempeh, don't exclude them although I don't eat as much as I do lentils and beans due to soy having higher levels of PUFA, although I'm not sure if it really is an issue as part of a well rounded diet. I usually fry the tempeh in coconut oil with some sea salt when I have it, I vary the legumes I eat but I do eat some tempeh and tofu.

 

[Ritchie]

What are your macros?

I just plugged an estimated random day into chronometer and i'm eating between 2500 - 3000 calories with about 130 gms protein, 60 gms fat (28 gms saturated, 18 gms mono and 7 gms pufa) and 400 gms carbs (with about 60/40 split sugars to starch), easily hitting all the micros in that.

 

[Ritchie]

You're welcome! :)

I'm not sure who said plants don't contain glycine but just to be clear, it wasn't me. I only said that meat/seafood contain more on average. Did you calculate based on grams of protein or grams of food? Ray told me that he recommends 100g of protein for active adults so I put in 100g of protein for each protein source I logged in cronometer and this is what I got:

Beans (pinto):
- Cystine: 0.9g (219%), Methionine: 1.3g (304%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (534%), Glycine: 4.1g, Phosphorus: 1631.7mg
Lettuce (green leaf):
- Cystine: 1.2g (276%), Methionine: 1.2g (276%), Tryptophan: 0.7g (295%), Glycine: 4.2g, Phosphorus: 2131.5mg
Potatoes (white w/o skin):
- Cystine: 1.3g (299%), Methionine: 1.6g (371%), Tryptophan: 1.5g (681%), Glycine: 3.0g, Phosphorus: 2550mg
Mushrooms:
- Cystine: 0.4g (97%), Methionine: 1.0g (238%), Tryptophan: 1.1g (493%), Glycine: 3.0g, Phosphorus: 4010.7mg
Rice (white):
- Cystine: 2.0g (479%), Methionine: 2.3g (549%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (513%), Glycine: 4.5g, Phosphorus: 1597.9mg
Scallops:
Cystine: 1.0g (233%), Methionine: 2.4g (556%), Tryptophan: 0.8g (375%), Glycine: 8.6g, Phosphorus: 2074.6mg
Chicken (breast, skin removed):
Cystine: 1.3g (300%), Methionine: 2.8g (648%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (520%), Glycine: 4.9g, Phosphorus: 698.8mg
Beef (sirloin, no visible fat eaten):
Cystine: 1.1g (247%), Methionine: 2.8g (656%), Tryptophan: 1.2g (534%), Glycine: 5.1g, Phosphorus: 903.2mg
Milk (1%):
Cystine: 0.6g (139%), Methionine: 2.6g (612%), Tryptophan: 1.3g (568%), Glycine: 2.0g, Phosphorus: 2819.8mg

Am I reading it wrong? Again, I personally don't worry about the AAs and phosphorus content, but questioned the inflammatory AAs and phosphorus argument based on what my crono logs were showing.

Methionine is either double in the animal products or even triple in the beef. Tryptophan seems on a par, same with glycine and cysteine from these figures you've posted. Not sure how chronometer works them out but I've seen different figures from other sources when aminos are broken down.. But I see where you're going, the thing is that practically you are never going to eat that much potatoes, rice, mushrooms, lettuce, even beans in one sitting to get 100 grams of protein. To get 100 grams of protein from eating rice you would explode your stomach haha, where as a decent steak and a glass of milk will pretty much get you there.. So you will be getting way less of all those AAs when eating plant based, same goes for the phosphorus.

 

[Ritchie]

There's word that B12 & folate supplementation can be undesirable regarding influence on methylation etc... search for forum for that... I used to eat methyl-B12, but since i chose not to limit myself by being vegan I simplified/enhanced my life & eat egg yolks/gelatin.
Also, typically conventional thought is for vegans to supplement iron, another Peat 'faux pas'.
I also love how conventional vegan thought is that high PUFA nuts are viable protein sources... at least defatted peanut butter loses its PUFAs lol!

Rays insights on a sustainable vegan approach:

I haven't seen any of the research suggesting that B12 supplementation is undesirable, do you mind linking it? I don't see any issue with supplementing a small amount of B12 to meet requirements, but maybe the evidence you've seen might change my mind... Regardless, I currently don't take any B12 sup, but rather eat a dozen oysters once every few weeks. Mussels are a good source of B12 as well. I know that oysters and mussels technically aren't vegan, however from the research i've seen on them they are like a sea version of mushrooms, more like a plant than an animal.. They don't have a brain or a central nervous system, no consciousness, no pain receptors, they don't really move and just grow on rocks and other objects in the sea, they are also incredibly sustainable and do wonders for the waters they grow in.

Yeah I certainly wouldn't be supplementing iron, that's definitely one of the major health positives of a vegan diet: no heme iron.

And yes i've seen that convo between westside PUFAs and Peat, some good insight into Peat's perspective. It's clear Peat approves of a well considered vegan diet in line with his principles.

 

[Jennifer]

the thing is that practically you are never going to eat that much potatoes, rice, mushrooms, lettuce, even beans in one sitting to get 100 grams of protein. To get 100 grams of protein from eating rice you would explode your stomach haha, where as a decent steak and a glass of milk will pretty much get you there.. So you will be getting way less of all those AAs when eating plant based, same goes for the phosphorus.

Haha! Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean eating 100g of protein/all that food in one sitting. I meant a daily total of 100 grams. What you're describing here is volume, not gram of protein for gram of protein. By getting way less of the inflammatory AAs when eating plant-based, we would have to be getting less protein overall (or supplementing with isolated AAs) and assuming cronometer is credible, it seems the same can be said for a diet including animal protein. Sure, there are inflammatory AAs and phos. that are double in animal proteins, but then there are inflammatory AAs and phos. that are double in plants, and not just among the ones I've listed. I compared even more foods like oxtail, gelatin, tofu, spinach and a vegan protein powder, but didn't bother listing all of them because I figured you'd get the picture.

 

[Ritchie]

Haha! Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean eating 100g of protein/all that food in one sitting. I meant a daily total of 100 grams. What you're describing here is volume, not gram of protein for gram of protein. By getting way less of the inflammatory AAs when eating plant-based, we would have to be getting less protein overall (or supplementing with isolated AAs) and assuming cronometer is credible, it seems the same can be said for a diet including animal protein. Sure, there are inflammatory AAs and phos. that are double in animal proteins, but then there are inflammatory AAs and phos. that are double in plants, and not just among the ones I've listed. I compared even more foods like oxtail, gelatin, tofu, spinach and a vegan protein powder, but didn't bother listing all of them because I figured you'd get the picture.

Ah yes I see what you mean. If that's the case and chronometer is reliable, then it seems that methionine is the amino acid that is consistently significantly higher in animal proteins than plant (double or close to triple depending), the others seem to be on somewhat of a par from the list you show. The point I was making above, is that when i'm eating animal products my total protein intake tends to be way higher than 100gms due to the sheer ease it is to eat protein dense foods. Where as when eating plant based the ratio of carbs to protein is more ideal, and i tend to get all my calories met while getting around 100 to 130 gms protein. Plus the amount of protein you eat at each meal is less and more spread out evenly through the day which feels a lot better energy wise, with way less stress hormone symptoms.