Appearance of veins on the hands

Thomas

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Ray Peat wrote:

T3, by lowering stress, sometimes reveals a low basal metabolic rate, that was hidden by high stress hormones. The body produces about 4 mcg of T3 per hour, so taking more than that can interfere with regulatory processes. It's helpful to use the resting pulse rate, and the 24 hour temperature curve, along with other signs, such as mood, appearance of veins on the hands, etc. The peak temperature should be in the afternoon.

--my question to you: do you know which signs, appearance of the veins on the hands he is talking about? I am a guy and have well expressed veins on my arms and hands. When I am having my blood drawn the nurses are all existed because its so easy. Basically all my veins are under the skin and you can see them.

thanks
Thomas
 

iLoveSugar

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Mine are awful. They are like rubbery and inflammed. They bulge out of my hands, and also now my temple area. I don't like it.
 

jaguar43

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Thomas said:
Ray Peat wrote:

T3, by lowering stress, sometimes reveals a low basal metabolic rate, that was hidden by high stress hormones. The body produces about 4 mcg of T3 per hour, so taking more than that can interfere with regulatory processes. It's helpful to use the resting pulse rate, and the 24 hour temperature curve, along with other signs, such as mood, appearance of veins on the hands, etc. The peak temperature should be in the afternoon.

--my question to you: do you know which signs, appearance of the veins on the hands he is talking about? I am a guy and have well expressed veins on my arms and hands. When I am having my blood drawn the nurses are all existed because its so easy. Basically all my veins are under the skin and you can see them.

thanks
Thomas

When you are resting the veins in your hand should subside.
 

Mittir

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The way i understand is that, when you are standing and your hands
are straightened down, along the length of the body,
the vein on the back of of the palm should not swell.
 

paper_clips43

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Mittir said:
The way i understand is that, when you are standing and your hands
are straightened down, along the length of the body,
the vein on the back of of the palm should not swell.

Why? And what does that mean if they do?

When I am sitting with my hands on my lap or standing with them by my side they get very big. I thought this was healthy. Also they have become much more apparent while Peating...
 

Mittir

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paper_clips43 said:
Mittir said:
The way i understand is that, when you are standing and your hands
are straightened down, along the length of the body,
the vein on the back of of the palm should not swell.

Why? And what does that mean if they do?

When I am sitting with my hands on my lap or standing with them by my side they get very big. I thought this was healthy. Also they have become much more apparent while Peating...

He was only talking about vein on the back side of palm when hands are below waist.
This is due to bad ratio of progesterone to estrogen. Did you notice how your
vein on back side of palm swell up before you started peating?
I never did. I never knew it was an indicator of estrogen progesterone ratio,
which is a result of hypothyroidism. This is the same reason for varicose vein in female.
 

paper_clips43

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By back side of palm you mean the top of the hand right? I googled it and I guess its called the opisthenar.

Anyway my veins were very small and one could barely see them before I started Peating. Now they swell up really big to the point where I can feel them. When I am standing and my hands are by my sides they are even more pronounced and you can spot them from the other side of the room.

I also noticed after coffee they get bigger.

Also when I was younger I had very pronounced veins then they went away when I went low carb and now they are back full force. More raised and bigger than ever.
 

Peata

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I had no visible veins on back of hands until I was about 35 and undergoing an extremely stressful time. Was also on and off SSRIs at the time (with insulin resistance when on them). It was something to go from not seeing any veins to having bulgy veins on backs of my hands. Even other people noticed. At the time I thought it might be due to stress thinning my skin.

My hands have not gone completely back to how they were before this time, and maybe they never will because I think the skin is thinner and/or lost some of the "padding" that used to be under it. A couple bones are more visible on back of hands than they used to be.

But, my hands have improved a lot. I still notice the veins at certain times. Right now, they are pretty much invisible on my left hand but my right hand I can see a couple though they aren't bulging.

Otherwise I don't have varicose veins or anything that has my attention.
 

Mittir

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paper_clips43 said:
By back side of palm you mean the top of the hand right? I googled it and I guess its called the opisthenar.

Anyway my veins were very small and one could barely see them before I started Peating. Now they swell up really big to the point where I can feel them. When I am standing and my hands are by my sides they are even more pronounced and you can spot them from the other side of the room.

I also noticed after coffee they get bigger.

Also when I was younger I had very pronounced veins then they went away when I went low carb and now they are back full force. More raised and bigger than ever.

Here is a RP quote

In shock, the cells are in a very low energy state, and infusions of ATP have been found to be therapeutic, but simple hypertonic solutions of glucose and salt are probably safer, and are very effective. The low energy of cells causes them to take up water, but it also causes the veins (which always receive blood after most of its oxygen and nutrients have been extracted) to lose their tone, allowing blood to pool in them, instead of returning to the heart. (Abel and Longnecker, 1978) This contributes to varicose veins (Ciardullo, et al., 2000), and to orthostatic hypotension, which is seen in women who are exposed to too much estrogen, and very frequently in old people.
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging ... rone.shtml
 

iLoveSugar

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What about temple veins? I feel them very tight up there. You can't see it, but can really feel it. I'm lost with this.
 

Peata

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When you say you can feel them, do you mean you feel them throbbing with blood or do you mean you can actually reach up feel them with your fingers?
 

paper_clips43

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Kinda both. I can definitely feel them if I brush my finger over them as they are very much raised. Also I am underweight so that definitely contributes to their appearance. But sometimes, after drinking coffee especially, I can actually feel them pressing against my skin. For instance the one of the top of the wrist gets really big and I can feel it being pressed against my bone and skin.

I always thought that the appearance of veins was a good thing. I knew the ones on the side of the feet that look spidery and are purple were bad but I thought the green ones that get big was a sign of good health.
 

Ben

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Mittir said:
Here is a RP quote

In shock, the cells are in a very low energy state, and infusions of ATP have been found to be therapeutic, but simple hypertonic solutions of glucose and salt are probably safer, and are very effective. The low energy of cells causes them to take up water, but it also causes the veins (which always receive blood after most of its oxygen and nutrients have been extracted) to lose their tone, allowing blood to pool in them, instead of returning to the heart. (Abel and Longnecker, 1978) This contributes to varicose veins (Ciardullo, et al., 2000), and to orthostatic hypotension, which is seen in women who are exposed to too much estrogen, and very frequently in old people.
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging ... rone.shtml

I had bulging veins for a long time, and always thought they were a good thing. I have veins bulging from my arms to the top of my hand, in my penis, and on my feet. Maybe it is blood pooling. I noticed that bodybuilders have very visible veins even when they are at rest. I thought it was because of endogeneous nitric oxide, how does this have to do with estrogen or progesterone? Some people noticed the less feminine women are more likely to have bulging veins, but both estrogen and progesterone cause feminine traits, like facial structure, and I saw a study in which estrogen had more of a feminizing effect on facial structure in women than progesterone.

I noticed when I had hypoglycemia from coffee, my veins would shrink on my hands, so it became kind of an indication if I had to eat something. But then I realized caffeine/coffee made me feel depressed, and at higher doses it produced suicidal thinking, and my blood sugar/veins were fine, so I concluded later that I have cerebral allergy to it.

The veins on my hands also shrink when the temperature is cold, but the temperature of my feet is the best indication of whether I'm cold, they are more likely to be cold than my hands. RP warned against having cold limbs because toxic chemicals are produced in them (probably serotonin, histamine, estrogen, etc).
 

Blossom

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I was wondering if it is reasonable to increase progest-e until this improves? Would the pronounced veins be a reliable indicator of adequate/optimal progesterone level?
 
J

j.

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Blossom said:
I was wondering if it is reasonable to increase progest-e until this improves? Would the pronounced veins be a reliable indicator of adequate/optimal progesterone level?

Maybe there are other possible causes?
 

Ben

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It looks like you can use progest-E or vitamin E to treat bulging veins. I didn't notice any improvement from high doses of aspirin (~1/4 tsp 3x per day, don't have a scale to actually mass it). You could use any estrogen antagonist to treat them as well, but I don't know of any anti-estrogenic compounds strong enough to have that effect. I've had bulging veins since a young age, and I don't feel like they will improve because it's been so consistent, so my situation feels hopeless.

At first I thought RP meant bulging veins on the hands is a good sign since it shows body temperature is high, but apparently I misunderstood him. The following elaborate his point better:

The Shutes used vitamin E to treat the excessive blood clotting caused by estrogen, and vitamin E was considered to be an estrogen antagonist. Estrogen affected the liver’s production of clot-regulating proteins, and it also relaxed large veins, allowing blood pooling that slowed the blood sufficiently to give it time to form clots before returning to the lungs. Early in the century, unsaturated fats were found to inactivate the proteolytic enzymes that dissolve clots, and vitamin E was known, by the 1940s, to provide protection against the toxicity of the unsaturated fats. The toxic synergy of estrogen and unsaturated fats had already been recognized.

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/coron ... rone.shtml

(About Progesterone) In the circulatory system, it prevents bulging veins by increasing the tone of blood vessels, and improves the efficiency of the heart. It reverses many of the signs of aging in the skin, and promotes healthy bone growth. It can relieve many types of arthritis, and helps a variety of immunological problems.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ries.shtml

In shock, the blood pressure decreases, mainly because the blood volume decreases. Water is taken up by the tissues, out of the blood. Much of the remaining blood volume is accumulated in the relaxed veins, and little is returned to the heart, yet the increased need for circulation accelerates the heart, causing each stroke to pump only a small amount. The reduced blood pressure caused many people to think that adrenaline would help to improve the circulation, but actually the “resistance arteries,” small arteries that provide blood to the arterioles and capillaries, are constricted in shock, (Lin, et al., 1998,) and adrenaline usually makes the situation worse. When tissue is poorly oxygenated (or is exposed to estrogen) it takes up water, swelling and becoming more rigid, turgid. (It also takes up calcium, especially under the influence of estrogen, causing muscles to contract.) This swelling effect will be much more noticeable in small arteries than in major arteries with very large channels, but when the effect is prolonged, it will affect even the heart, causing it to “stiffen,” weakening its ability to pump. There is some evidence that estrogen can make large arteries stiffen, over a span of a few months. (Giltay, et al., 1999)

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging ... rone.shtml
 

Blossom

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I started diamox today and my veins are no longer bulging. Just noticed and thought I'd share this experience. It may be due to it's diuretic action. I'll see what happens when I don't take it.
 

paper_clips43

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@Blossom have you noticed more of a direct connection to Diamox and better appearance of veins?

Off all the things that have gotten better since Peating my veins have yet to make the cut.
They are still bulging and sometimes painful especially on the feet.
I would like to wait little longer before trying diamox.

Someone told me today that doing headstands for up to 10 minutes a day can be good for veins.
Does anyone think this may be true?
 

Mittir

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paper_clips43 said:
Someone told me today that doing headstands for up to 10 minutes a day can be good for veins.
Does anyone think this may be true?
Headstand is considered a panacea in yoga. It prevents thyroid issues and all kind of
other diseases. I believe it is not recommended for people with thyroid problem.
Yoga posture, meditation and breathing exercise can improve health tremendously.
My experience is that it works best when someone is in relatively good health.
Any kind of forward bending pose will increase blood supply to brain.
Higher blood supply improves brain function and lowers all kind of stress.
Breathing exercises are easy to do and very very therapeutic.
Bag breathing should give similar results
 

Blossom

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I resorted to diamox because of my high oxygen work environment combined with very compromised health. If given the choice I personally would always choose the least medication. I'm grateful I have tried it and feel my health has only improved because of it, with that said I am looking forward to the day when I no longer feel it is necessary. My husband used to jokingly call me a heroin housewife because of how prominent my veins were. What a positive change.
 
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