Apparent Contradictory Effects Of Oestrogen, Progesterone In Menopause

Journey

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Jun 14, 2016
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I was wondering if someone could please try to help me understand the following conundrum:

Why would a dose of roughly 1 mg of oestrogen (from a typical HRT gel version) and 100 mg of synthetic progesterone tablets (therefore of doubtful effectiveness) seem to reverse some of the nastier symptoms of menopause (flushes, lethargy, brain fog, flashes of bad temper, low libido, fat gain on upper body)??
Over a period of 6 months I returned to being pretty much as before menopause. It was nirvana, sleeping through the night, regaining my equilibrium, etc. Then I found out some more information on the negative aspects of oestrogen.

I am now genuinely surprised and confused.

I stopped the oestrogen and all the same symptoms slowly reappeared, I then increased the dosage of progesterone (admittedly the one I was prescribed) to about 300 mg - which made no difference.

* So is it a case that one needed extra oestrogen for some reason, would there ever be such a case???

* How could oestrogen have the effects that progesterone is supposed to have??

* Could the apparently typical menopause symptoms be caused by something else? The influence of another hormone or lack of? What role could thyroid have here?

* How would the theory 'listen to your body' apply here? I definitely experienced wellbeing at that level of extra oestrogen. Would I be totally mad returning to HRT and causing other damage?

I'd really appreciate some opinions and possible theories on any of the above issues.

I have read some threads which indicate similar confusion as to the effects of supplementing with hormones. I do also note from people around me that diet certainly seem to make a difference, women who managed never to gain extra weight seem to have lesser and shorter menopausal symptoms. And losing weight whilst hormonally imbalanced is a Herculean task...
Thanks!
 

Mufasa

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Jun 10, 2016
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From Hair Like A Fox:

In women, estrogen is normally produced in monthly surges during ovulation or pregnancy, inducing a temporary loss of coherence within the organism. The monthly estrogen surge inhibits "efficient" oxidative mitochondrial metabolism and stimulates cell division.3 In good health, this intense but brief stimulation is useful in situations that require rapid growth (i.e., for growing the uterus, breasts, and pituitary or for tissue repair following injury), but in other situations, can become degenerative if unopposed by large amounts of progesterone.
Progesterone acts as an anti-estrogen,4,5 supporting oxidative mitochondrial respiration and resolving the temporary growth-state induced by estrogen. However, if the factors needed to produce progesterone – such as thyroid hormone and vitamin A – are deficient, as they typically are in advanced age, estrogen can accumulate in the tissues to lower the metabolic rate and the efficiency by which energy is generated. The anti-respiratory, pro-inflammatory nature of estrogen, a systemic problem, has many anti-hair qualities.
One of the clearest examples of how estrogen and progesterone affect hair growth is during pregnancy, when there is an increase in hair growth rate, hair diameter, and ratio of growing hairs to resting hairs6,7 – all of which result in a “lush head of hair.”8 In fact, in some cases pregnancy reverses “male-pattern” baldness in women.9 In contrast to the beneficial effects of pregnancy on hair growth, postpartum women routinely experience dramatic hair loss.10 But after giving birth, when progesterone levels fall sharply and estrogen and prolactin (the "lactation" or "molting hormone") levels increase,11 the lush head of hair that had developed during pregnancy – when progesterone levels were soaring – disappears.
In stark contrast to the hair-supportive conditions of pregnancy, menopausal conditions favor the development of “male-pattern baldness”.12 While professionals often proclaim menopause as an “estrogen deficiency”—as if there were no doubt about it— it is very clear, instead, that an elevated ratio of estrogen to progesterone is involved. Estrogen concentrations in tissues correlate positively with aging13,14,15 and with body fat levels.16,17 Because there is much misunderstanding, it is worth stating here that blood levels of estrogen do not necessarily reflect tissue concentrations of estrogen.18,19,20,21 Increased by estrogen,22,23 prolactin often becomes excessive around menopause,24 slows the metabolic rate,25 and inhibits the production of progesterone.26
However, there is no denying that supplemental estrogen is sometimes “helpful” during menopause, but this may be due estrogen’s suppression of the pituitary “menopausal” gonadotropins, which in excess can cause many problems associated with menopause. In fact, P.W. Wise found that regulatory nerves in the brain responsible for releasing these “menopausal” hormones were "desensitized" in relation to their exposure to estrogen.27,28
 
OP
J

Journey

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Jun 14, 2016
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Right, so oestrogen inhibits the pituitary and appears to relieve the symptoms...actually come to think of it now I have read that somewhere else also - essentially a false help - fools paradise. What a pity as the effects feel incredibly positive.

Now the text you kindly quoted mentions overproduction of prolactin - any ideas how to oppose that?
 

Tarmander

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Apr 30, 2015
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3,763
Right, so oestrogen inhibits the pituitary and appears to relieve the symptoms...actually come to think of it now I have read that somewhere else also - essentially a false help - fools paradise. What a pity as the effects feel incredibly positive.

Now the text you kindly quoted mentions overproduction of prolactin - any ideas how to oppose that?

Search the forum for pituitary hormones, PTH, and Haidut's name and you should find some stuff that will lower it. Also Ray's articles mention PTH quite a bit too. Calcium is pretty important in its lowering.
 

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