Anyone Tried Megasporebiotics?

Sergey

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Jul 25, 2015
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I just finished 14 days course of Elixa probiotics. I have to say that considering how expensive they were I didn't see much improvement, perhaps more frequent and firmer bm, but bloating and the occasional diarrhoea is still there.
I am interested in trying Megasporebiotics.
Has anybody tried it? Results?
I have tried it and didn’t like it. Tried their bacillus subtilis and didn’t like it even more. Gut was somewhat better. Overall - worse. I think b subtilis is somewhat unpredictable or even dangerous. It produces thiaminases, it has extreme capacity for b12 uptake, it produces mk-7 form of k2, which i don’t tolerate. And who knows what else it does. I used russian product with fermentation byproducts of b subtilis (no live bacteria) and that was good one. However I didn’t find anythjng similar in Europe.
I did try other spore based probiotic combos, but they all have b subtilis and all give the same weird reaction.
I do like b coagulans, especially holding capsule content in my mouth before swallowing. I think it has effect similar to the one of L sakei on throat/sinus health.
 

Perry Staltic

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Dec 14, 2020
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FWIW. For coagulans I've tried 88herbs, Solaray, Best, Swanson, Nutribiome (90 caps for the price looked good, but didn't notice it takes 3 caps for 1 day). Can't tell if one is better than another.

Youtheory was the only one I could find with clausi, subtilis, coagulans. Probably won't get again when it runs out because not that interested in clausi.

I bought a bottle of SuperSmart subtilis (that was the only one I could find with just subtilis). If I don't notice anything with it I'll probably just stick with coagulens.

These are all spore probiotics, btw.
 

Mauritio

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Feb 26, 2018
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I wouldn't know exactly what to look for, but I have intestinal peace I haven't had in a long time. And I really like once and done for the day; no more going several times a day at unexpected times. Firmer, better smell.
Okay awesome. At the end everybody has to try to try it out themselves, proof is in the pudding .
But thanks for mentioning ,already ordered .
 
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I have tried it and didn’t like it. Tried their bacillus subtilis and didn’t like it even more. Gut was somewhat better. Overall - worse. I think b subtilis is somewhat unpredictable or even dangerous. It produces thiaminases,

Thank you, @Sergey, this information is very helpful to me and also disturbing. I supplement small amounts of B1 but lately have been noticing symptoms I associate with low B1. I'm going to stop taking Mega sporebiotics and see if these symptoms go away. It did not occur to me that the sporebiotics could be the cause.

Can you describe what effects you noticed from b. subtilis?
 

Perry Staltic

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Dec 14, 2020
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I tried looking, but couldn't find anything. Can you please direct me to a source for this?

n/m I found something... Guess I'll have to keep an eye on it.

Type II thiaminases are produced by Bacillus subtilis

 

Perry Staltic

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Dec 14, 2020
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Bacillus subtilis produces the tenA gene, which is a type II thiaminase. Vitamin C may prevent its deactivation of thiamine

Thiaminase II is of bacterial origin (predominantly Bacillus, Candida, and Oospora) and breaks down the free vitamin, but not the thiamin pyrophosphate, into pyrimidin and thiazol components.
...
... in man, high tea consumption leads to a deficient thiamin status, but ascorbic acid, if present, completely inhibits the thiamin-inactivating processes.

 

Mauritio

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Thanks for sharing your experience with vitamin C. In what ways did it help your GI health?
It just ruthlessly cleaned it all out and I mean all Haha. What follows is a sense of peace and the only time in the last 10 years where I remember not being very, very bloated.
As matter of fact I've started today back on high doses to induce a flush...
 

Perry Staltic

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B. subtilis > tenA may not be something to worry about.

[tenA] Catalyzes an amino-pyrimidine hydrolysis reaction at the C5' of the pyrimidine moiety of thiamine compounds, a reaction that is part of a thiamine salvage pathway. Thus, catalyzes the conversion of 4-amino-5-aminomethyl-2-methylpyrimidine to 4-amino-5-hydroxymethyl-2-methylpyrimidine (HMP). To a lesser extent, is also able to catalyze the hydrolytic cleavage of thiamine; however, this thiaminase activity is unlikely to be physiologically relevant. Therefore, is involved in the regeneration of the thiamine pyrimidine from thiamine degraded products present in the environment, rather than in thiamine degradation.

 

Perry Staltic

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It just ruthlessly cleaned it all out and I mean all Haha. What follows is a sense of peace and the only time in the last 10 years where I remember not being very, very bloated.
As matter of fact I've started today back on high doses to induce a flush...

Vitamin C is a real party pooper for free radicals and reactive oxygen species. It also works hand-in-hand with glutathione. Haven't looked into it, but just skimming search results seems to indicate that glutathione is important to intestinal health.
 

Mauritio

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Vitamin C is a real party pooper for free radicals and reactive oxygen species. It also works hand-in-hand with glutathione. Haven't looked into it, but just skimming search results seems to indicate that glutathione is important to intestinal health.
Yeah and the diuretic effect is probably one of the main benefits. Plus skin looks good ,since it's a collagen cofactor. It's not optimal but let's just say I'm running out of options :D
 

Advocate2021

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Dec 11, 2020
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I just finished 14 days course of Elixa probiotics. I have to say that considering how expensive they were I didn't see much improvement, perhaps more frequent and firmer bm, but bloating and the occasional diarrhoea is still there.
I am interested in trying Megasporebiotics.
Has anybody tried it? Results?
i have had very postive results with the microbiome labs products. I have been on the complete program- megamucosa, megaprebiotic and various rotations of their probiotics including megasporbiotic and experienced much improvement. I think the key is changing things up and figuring out what works longterm once you have been on an intensive regimen-- I am working on that at the moment., Since I had been doing so well on the microbiome full regimen I kept it up for a year and a half but if it really works, even the company advises that a maintenance schedule of much less product and frequency is needed.
 

Sergey

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Jul 25, 2015
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B. subtilis > tenA may not be something to worry about.



Not sure. My problem with b subtilis is not just thiaminase (even though taking them does cause low thiamine symptoms for me and I doubt vitamin c is a long term solution for that).
Its two things really. When I take them I feel worse. And its different from die-off or whatever reaction there is, when I take antimicrobials I feel better, not worse.
Second issue is that the more I read abou b subtilis, the less beneficial they seem.
Recently, for example, I saw a fermentation study which shown that b subtilis, clausii and lichiemformis produce oxalates during fermentation.
After that I saw another article which describes mutualistic coexistence between b subtilis and aspergilllus mold:

“Here we discovered a mutualistic mechanism between filamentous fungus and bacterium, Aspergillus nidulans and Bacillus subtilis. The bacterial cells co-cultured with the fungus traveled along mycelia depending on their flagella and dispersed farther with the expansion of fungal colony, indicating that the fungal mycelia supply space for bacteria to migrate, disperse and proliferate. Transcriptomic, genetic, molecular mass and imaging analyses demonstrated that the bacteria reach the mycelial edge and supply thiamine to the growing hyphae, resulting in a promotion of hyphal growth. The thiamine transfer from bacteria to the thiamine non-auxotrophic fungus is directly demonstrated by stable isotope labeling. The simultaneous spatial and metabolic interactions demonstrated in this study, reveal a mutualism that facilitates the communicating fungal and bacterial species to obtain environmental niche and nutrient respectively.”


I just don’t like this stuff.
 

Sergey

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Thank you, @Sergey, this information is very helpful to me and also disturbing. I supplement small amounts of B1 but lately have been noticing symptoms I associate with low B1. I'm going to stop taking Mega sporebiotics and see if these symptoms go away. It did not occur to me that the sporebiotics could be the cause.

Can you describe what effects you noticed from b. subtilis?
Its a very strange type of symptoms. Increase in anxiety, even though I am not sure that anxiety is the right word. More depressed. Don’t know how to describe it properly, they are very physical in a way, but mood related at the same time. Not surprisingly actually since gut and mood are ao connected, but when I try to describe it, words let me down.
“Pass the gravy” as Iris Murdoch said:):
Spore probiotics intensify precisely the issues I am trying to resolve. Some kind of inner discomfort, some kind of anxiety with tension. Food aggravates all that, especially cabrs. Non spore probiotics reduce symptoms initially, but I can’t tolerate any amount of fermentation in the upper GI.
probiotics like elixa, which only open in the large intestine, do not help much.
What I have been doing lately is making my own bacterial lysates - i boils high quality high cfu non spore probiotic and then take it. It is very promising. Both studies and anecdotal reports show excellent results with such approach - proper immune reaction without all the negatives of living bacteria.
I heard that in France, Russia and now Czech Republic they use lysates for the treatment of throat and mouth infections, including tooth cavities.
Bioray has a supplement with bacterial lysates which is very helpful for autistic kids. It just recently occurred to me that I can make them at home, not only with probiotic supplements, but also from fermented food - sauerkraut or kimchi.
 

Tarmander

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Apr 30, 2015
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@Tarmander any thoughts on this particular strain?
not too much research on it, but some promising leads. Not very risky if you want to try it, but roll of the dice whether it will compliment your microbiome or not.

Spore probiotics were all the rage a year ago or so, and every company wanted to come out with one. Someone mentioned Youtheory above. I have done contractor work for them in the past so I got to see a lot of the research they used to justify theirs being superior. Frankly its just okay, there is not enough meat on the spore probiotic bone to get super excited about it. But some people swear by them so 🤷‍♂️
 

TheBeard

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May 16, 2018
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Microbiome Labs products are the terrain of my next experiment.

I ordered 3 of their products directly on their website:
- MegaSporeBiotic
- Restorflora
- Bacillus Subtilis HU58

I'm very much interested in seeing if they can act as antibiotics.

One blog in particular recommends the combination of the 3 products as synergestic.

Will let everyone know as soon as I receive them and can embark on the course.
 
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