Anyone Here Not Drinking Caffeine?

[Aleksandra]

I love coffee but it is very bad for me. Despite what Ray say I am not going to drink it again . I have just stopped AGAIN and I feel awesome. My skin is bright and fresh I would say it glows . And i believe that skin reflects our conditions / health. I am calmer less irritated , my heart rate is normal and finally I do not feel tired. When I drink coffee I feel kind of tired and foggy . Now I start me morning fresh . Great feeling!

 

[Bluebell]

Oh yes to the getting liver running optimally!

BB are you waking up at certain times in the night? Or really early in the morning? How is your sleep generally?

I used to have extreme stress hormones at night, my body would be exhausted but wouldn't let me sleep, and kept jerking me awake if I did drop off.

That started getting better even before Peat. My sleep is now OK, but sometimes I just can't drop off. I sleep through now, most nights. However I toss and turn a lot at night so I am sure the sleep is not as deep or restful as it could be. Also every morning I wake up feeling not great. But I'm about 70% better than I used to be. So I hope things are going in the right direction!

I had all the hypothyroid symptoms but was not fat so I didn't realise what my problem was until very recently. I think my hypothyroid was so extreme I was running on stress hormones.

So right now, I'm under no illusion this will be an easy journey. On top of just eating poorly most of my life, I've had severe trauma, drug and alcohol addiction, and cancer. I consider some of my anger/mental health/menstrual cycle issues I'm going through right now as almost an awakening, if that makes sense? Like the veil has been taken off and I'm hurt, frustrated, pissed off, and just physically messed up. Yet, I have this feeling of faith (and I never use that word) that this is the right path and I won't be giving up. I just need to be patient and listen to my body and myself and respond to whatever my needs are. I'm really interested in trauma release - physical release, not talk therapy to aid in this process. Same with light therapy.

That makes sense SO much. I am completely staggered by what is going on, I just can't believe it almost, how much I didn't know my entire life. So much was due to hypothyroidism for me. I feel so lucky to have this forum to meet like-minded people.

I'm doing what I can with the diet first. I'm very interested in incorporating other Peatian things when I can. I'd be very interested in increasing carbon dioxide levels, and also light therapy too.

But in a nutshell, I feel pretty bloody good despite the ups and downs.

Here's to that!

 

[Bluebell]

I love coffee but it is very bad for me. Despite what Ray say I am not going to drink it again . I have just stopped AGAIN and I feel awesome. My skin is bright and fresh I would say it glows . And i believe that skin reflects our conditions / health. I am calmer less irritated , my heart rate is normal and finally I do not feel tired. When I drink coffee I feel kind of tired and foggy . Now I start me morning fresh . Great feeling!

Hi Aleksandra! Thank you for your comment. That is what I also found with coffee and my skin a while back. I wasn't a coffee drinker but if I had a cup my skin would lose it's glow. I'm not quite sure of the situation now as I've been having various types of caffeine plus doing the Peat style of eating, for about 3 months. My skin looks OK.

Do you have any caffeine at all now? (tea, green tea etc)

 

[juanitacarlos]

Hey BB - I emailed Ray Peat about this and he thinks the withdrawals/headaches are just simply related to hypothyroidism, as someone else mentioned earlier (maybe Charlie?).

Without reading back through the post, do you still feel you are hypo? I do, even being on 5.5 grains of NDT (some fatigue, sleep issues, scaly skin, outer eyebrow etc).

 

[Bluebell]

Hey BB - I emailed Ray Peat about this and he thinks the withdrawals/headaches are just simply related to hypothyroidism, as someone else mentioned earlier (maybe Charlie?).

Without reading back through the post, do you still feel you are hypo? I do, even being on 5.5 grains of NDT (some fatigue, sleep issues, scaly skin, outer eyebrow etc).

Thanks a lot, that's really great to hear it direct from Ray!

Yes, that's what I suspect - that my problem with caffeine is simply due to poor health = hypo (which slows down everything including liver function which is in charge of detox).

I had always hoped that when I am finally healthy, I wouldn't get caffeine withdrawals. In fact it could be quite a useful indicator of good health.

Yes I do feel I am still hypo. I have only been treating it for 3 months and I think many/most symptoms take a while to resolve. For example, if there is internal mucin build up (through entire body and organs/nerves, not just visible myxedema), it takes a while for the increased metabolic rate to clear that mess up. Does that ring true with you? I wonder if there's something of a detox going on in the inital months of treating hypothyroidism.

My pulse is up. I need to consistently take my temperatures, but they are rising. I'm not quite sure when I'll say I'm not hypo any more, I guess when my morning temperature is consistently high & doesn't drop after breakfast.

So, I am thinking now, if I get any kind of withdrawal from caffeine, that would probably mean it's not good for me.

So maybe it's best to wait until hypothyroidism is resolved before drinking caffeine?

I happen to have been drinking less caffeine yesterday, and I found I sleep better and my skin looks better pretty much immediately.

 

[Jenn]

You NEED to be getting enough fuel to process the caffeine. If not, you are adding stress to your liver (which would show in your skin). The form of caffeine matters too. Green tea is not the best source. I am highly suspicious of Monster drinks too. People (ok probably mostly the women) seem to like the sugar free ones.

Coffee is prothyroid. Coffee plus aspirin act like T3 in the body.

 

[Bluebell]

When you say fuel, is sugar & sat fat enough? I was eating cream/butter/sugar with the caffeine. Also the rest of my diet was high in cals and packed with nutrients. I couldn't eat more nutrients without getting fat.

Peat says if you are hypothyroid this can be a cause of caffeine withdrawal/headaches. I wonder if he would say not to have too much caffeine if you are hypothyroid?

 

[Bluebell]

Also, I'd like to know - can you be fully successful with the Peat diet (benefits of hormones balancing, illnesses going away, superior health etc.) without caffeine? (and rely instead on thyroid for your energy)

Once their thyroid is working well, does everyone need coffee for a fully actualised life, brain working well, sharp, creative etc?

Or is it more of a case by case thing, where even when their thyroid is good, some people will do well on coffee and others won't?

 

[4peatssake]

Hey BB - I emailed Ray Peat about this and he thinks the withdrawals/headaches are just simply related to hypothyroidism, as someone else mentioned earlier (maybe Charlie?).

Without reading back through the post, do you still feel you are hypo? I do, even being on 5.5 grains of NDT (some fatigue, sleep issues, scaly skin, outer eyebrow etc).

ttramone, can you let us know exactly what he said and your question.

That would be so very helpful. Thank you!

 

[superhuman]

I would so love to drink alot of coffee but it hinders my sleep alot. I dont feel anything when i drink coffee its just i cant calm down and fall asleep even after 6+ hours of drinking it. Its not that im wide awake its just i cant settle down and fall asleep and also my sleep is very bad.

Really frustrating, ive tried sugar and having coffee after the meal aswell.

Im hypothyroid

 

[Jenn]

I have approximately 2 TBS of sugar, 1-2 TB spoons of gelatin, plus 1/5-1/2 milk in a single cup of coffee. I may drink that all day long or not have any on any given day. I drink more in winter because otherwise I can't warm up. I don't drink much in the summer.

Drink more, not less, if you are hypothyroid. Supplement magnesium, if you need to for "wired".

 

[juanitacarlos]

Hey BB - I emailed Ray Peat about this and he thinks the withdrawals/headaches are just simply related to hypothyroidism, as someone else mentioned earlier (maybe Charlie?).

Without reading back through the post, do you still feel you are hypo? I do, even being on 5.5 grains of NDT (some fatigue, sleep issues, scaly skin, outer eyebrow etc).

ttramone, can you let us know exactly what he said and your question.

That would be so very helpful. Thank you!

No probs!

Me: Just wondering why some of us get severe withdrawals (headaches, fatigue, drowsiness, low mood) if we don't use coffee daily. We don't get side effects from drinking coffee, just if we don't drink it for 24 hours (sometimes less). These 'withdrawals' can last as long as 5-6 days. Why would this happen? We are thinking there could be issues with our liver? Adrenals?

RP: I suspect that it happens mostly with hypothyroidism, because in the 1970s I averaged dozens of cups a day, and thought about it as soon as I woke up, then suddenly after I took some thyroid, I didn't feel any need
for it.

 

[Jenn]

We all are. I took me about 6 months of heavy magnesium supplementation ( and I still supplement seasonally) along with change in diet before I was able to drink a cup of coffee or two and sleep DEEP. The first time it happened, I was away from home and had coffee later in the day than I thought I should at a friend's house. I had more coffee when I got back home. I had the BEST nights sleep I have had in a LONG time, like years.

Of course, the drawback now is it won't keep me awake for nothing.

 

[fabiomln]

A major part of coffee's benefit comes from it's antioxidative polyphenols,

From Peat: "Natural Estrogens".
Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body.
....
The “estrogenic” and “antioxidant” polyphenolic compounds of tea are not the protective agents (they raise the level of estrogen), but tea's caffeine is a very powerful and general anti-cancer protectant.

 

[4peatssake]

No probs!

Me: Just wondering why some of us get severe withdrawals (headaches, fatigue, drowsiness, low mood) if we don't use coffee daily. We don't get side effects from drinking coffee, just if we don't drink it for 24 hours (sometimes less). These 'withdrawals' can last as long as 5-6 days. Why would this happen? We are thinking there could be issues with our liver? Adrenals?

RP: I suspect that it happens mostly with hypothyroidism, because in the 1970s I averaged dozens of cups a day, and thought about it as soon as I woke up, then suddenly after I took some thyroid, I didn't feel any need
for it.

Awesome!
Thank you!

 

[Bluebell]

Me: Just wondering why some of us get severe withdrawals (headaches, fatigue, drowsiness, low mood) if we don't use coffee daily. We don't get side effects from drinking coffee, just if we don't drink it for 24 hours (sometimes less). These 'withdrawals' can last as long as 5-6 days. Why would this happen? We are thinking there could be issues with our liver? Adrenals?

RP: I suspect that it happens mostly with hypothyroidism, because in the 1970s I averaged dozens of cups a day, and thought about it as soon as I woke up, then suddenly after I took some thyroid, I didn't feel any need
for it.

Thank you ttramone!

I would be very interested to know if Ray thinks that for those of use with this issue (hypothyroidism -> super bad coffee withdrawals), whether it is OK to use coffee, or whether we should hold off until we have our hypothyroidism fixed? (I'm wondering if using coffee in a hypothyroid state could be whipping up the stress hormones in a tired body that actually needs to rest and not be stimulated)

 

[Bluebell]

A major part of coffee's benefit comes from it's antioxidative polyphenols,

From Peat: "Natural Estrogens".
Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body.
....
The “estrogenic” and “antioxidant” polyphenolic compounds of tea are not the protective agents (they raise the level of estrogen), but tea's caffeine is a very powerful and general anti-cancer protectant.

I get the impression that Ray thinks that polyphenols are not good for us (is that right? or does he think they are bad in some ways, but good in other ways?).

So what is it in coffee that gives all these fantastic health benefits?

Is it just the caffeine?

 

[juanitacarlos]

I would be very interested to know if Ray thinks that for those of use with this issue (hypothyroidism -> super bad coffee withdrawals), whether it is OK to use coffee, or whether we should hold off until we have our hypothyroidism fixed? (I'm wondering if using coffee in a hypothyroid state could be whipping up the stress hormones in a tired body that actually needs to rest and not be stimulated)

After all this, I've decided to drink coffee again. Ha ha. I've just changed how I drink it -like I think Jenn & 4peats do - with cream, gelatin and and stacks of sugar. And I've changed to instant coffee instead of having espresso. The coffee snob in me is protesting but I feel it's for the best

I've been thinking about it over the past week BB (like you said in bold above), whether just due to the state I'm in I need to take my coffee differently. I'll let you know how I go.

 

[Bluebell]

Me too!! I tried cutting down caffeine to just 2 cups tea & no coffee and was having such a bad day. I've re-introduced coffee and tea as desired today and feeling better. I always have it after food. I'm thinking of buying some hydrolized gelatin to mix in easily.

I might email Ray my question though, I'd still like to know.

Why did you switch to instant, just the convenience? I'm having instant too, though I have a bag of the proper stuff in the cupboard.

 

[juanitacarlos]

Definitely for cost and convenience because it sure hasn't been for taste. I put that much cream, sugar and gelatin in it now that it's sort of wasted on premium coffee.