Anyone Here Not Drinking Caffeine?

Discussion in 'Coffee' started by Bluebell, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    I drink some tea, and since starting Peat have added some coffee.

    I'm interested if there is anyone here who finds they feel better without caffeine? Anyone who doesn't drink it?
     
  2. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

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    I'm currently not drinking coffee much at all. I seem to be very sensitive to it. I don't get buzzed and it doesn't keep me up, but if I don't drink a coffee by 7-8 am, I start getting a headache. I just recently quit doing drinking regularly (one medium coffee a day, generally with breakfast) and was fatigued for 4 days. So for me, it doesn't really work. I've got some decaf which I'm going to drink occasionally. I think coffee is great but obviously where I'm at metabolically, it's just not right for me.
     
  3. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    Thanks a lot. That's exactly how I used to be with caffeine, though for me it was with tea, but I'd be drinking it all day so didn't get the withdrawals. If I stopped for 24 hours then I'd definitely get headaches, feel wiped out, body aches. Would go on for days. That says addiction to me, meaning caffeine is not good for my body and is hyping it up when it doesn't have the reserves. Now I've started peat, I have not tried giving it up during that time. So I don't know if I still get those reactions when giving up or not. The things that have changed since Peat are sticking to Peaty foods, and also that I never drink caffeine on an empty stomach any more.

    Ttramone do you drink tea?
     
  4. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    A major part of coffee's benefit comes from it's antioxidative polyphenols,
    especially lowering iron absorption and protecting against diabetes.
    Caffeine has many other benefits, like increasing progesterone and protecting liver.
    But lowing iron absorption is considered the most protective.
    I think using both caffeinated and decaf, depending on reaction, is a good idea.
    Decaf also provides same magnesium and niacin as regular coffee.
     
  5. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

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    BB, it's quite an intense feeling of fatigue and you describe it very well! I used to be a moderate tea drinker- a few cups a day - but have stopped in the last year or so for no real reason. I probably will have the odd cup every now and then. Tea does not affect me the same as coffee - maybe because I drink tea fairly weak? Don't get me wrong, I think coffee is great, but I won't be drinking it regularly until I'm in a place where I don't have intense withdrawals if I do not drink it on a particular day. I also wonder what havoc it's doing to my adrenals?

    BB, do you think your tea drinking 'props' you up? I ask because I was never a really a huge coffee drinker until I started having thyroid problems, and from there adrenal issues. It's funny my desire for coffee/caffeine has waned somewhat since I pulled my cortisol levels out of the gutter.
     
  6. juanitacarlos

    juanitacarlos Member

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    Mittir, so do you think that even drinking decaf coffee during/after meals will help with inhibiting iron absorption? It's something in the coffee, not solely caffeine? That is the main reason I've bought some decaf, and for the nutrients you mentioned.
     
  7. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    @ttramone
    Yes it is the polyphenols in coffee, tea and chocolate that inhibit iron absorption.
    Vitamin C increases iron absorption. In one study it shows OJ increased
    iron absorption 2 and a half fold from breakfast. Calcium inhibits iron absorption too.
    Tea is more potent than coffee in inhibiting iron absorption.
    One study found decaf coffee was more effective as anti-diabetic.

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/12/2484.short
    http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=411511
    http://www.irondisorders.org/diet
    http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/104/5/459.full
     
  8. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    Yes, I definitely do. I have around 5 large mugs of super-strong black tea per day with added milk.

    Before I found Peat, and before I knew I was hypothyroid, I tried giving it up completely. Once I got over the week's worth of feeling ill, I still felt fuzzy and foggy and lacking in energy even more than normal. I stopped the tea for a couple of months and felt fuzzy the whole time. Adding tea back in, even just 1 strong mug per day, brightened up my day.

    I do think that pre-Peat the caffeine was like a drug though and not good for me. Also, with zero caffeine, my skin looks much better.

    My desire for caffeine has also waned a bit now, though I still drink it for energy and taste. I don't think I need it to function as much as I used to. I would quite like to give it up completely and see how I feel, as an experiment now I'm on Peat. However the iron-blocking effects are pretty powerful so maybe I'll keep it. I must be blocking massive amounts of iron with all this tea.

    Something else that puts me off drinking a lot of tea is the sheer volume of liquid I'm getting through. I'm not sure how good it is to plough through that much water in my tea, I'd prefer OJ and milk to be my main liquids. Maybe an anti-iron tea supplement pill would be useful! Maybe I should switch to mini expressos. I could avoid the fluoride in tea that way too.

    Coffee seems to affect me more, I get withdrawal headaches more easily, and it affects the look of my skin (negatively) more. I've introduced sometimes a cup a day of instant at home. When out I do enjoy a really good strong cappucino or latte.
     
  9. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    That all sounds very beneficial, especially higher progesterone, and being good for liver.

    I wonder how much of a problem the fluoride in tea is (normal black tea taken with milk). I have mine super strong.
     
  10. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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    Maybe you are reacting to not having coffee because it is so beneficial, you need it. You need food too, if you stopped eating it, you would probably have some bad reactions the next day too. ;)
     
  11. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    Hm not so sure about that! :D Although it sounds like there are undoubted benefits to coffee, but I think perhaps it's not right for me yet, cos I am perhaps not healthy enough to handle it yet. Also with the coffee I just notice my skin is less glowing while I have it. If I stop the coffee, my skin's nicer within a day and then stays that way.

    Having said all that, I'm feeling so much better I might start experimenting with just coffee and see how it goes. Might also then cut it out 100% and see what happens then.
     
  12. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Fluoride is not the only issue . Tea increases estrogen

     
  13. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    Thanks Mittir! The thing is I'm not sure how much of an issue they are. Do they raise estrogen a tiny bit or a lot? Is the fluoride in tea enough to worry about?

    I remember Ray mentioning that some antioxidants are actually good (for example saying that substances in coke have antioxidant effects), but here it sounds like he's saying the antioxidants in tea are not good. Don't they have any good effects at all?

    I do know Ray Peat seemed to think some tea is OK.

    In the article linked to above he also says "Flavonoids and polyphenols, like our own estrogens, suppress the detoxifying systems of the body."

    Wouldn't the polyphenols in coffee also raise estrogen and have other harmful effects? Are the harmful effects balanced out by the good effects in coffee?

    I'm interested in how Ray views polyphenols and the research about the benefits (for example pine bark extract), but maybe I should make a separate post for that.
     
  14. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    ^This, so much this.

    And I would definitely read this:
    Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen

    This quote also being somewhat relevant:

    Bold mine.
     
  15. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    Charlie (and ttramone, Jenn, anyone else!) what do you think about the fluoride in tea? Enough to be a problem?

    I'm considering an experiment with cutting out all tea and having small strong coffees instead (after meals).
     
  16. OP
    Bluebell

    Bluebell Member

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    On the whole I agree with you. Though in the case of someone with hormones all over the place, exhausted, thin, malnourished, then I'd say even if they seem to feel better with caffeine, it might not actually be good for them. It might be creating a false energy not backed up by nutrition and health, and they might find they need more and more caffeine to get the same effect as time goes on.

    For me, I'm open to the idea of caffeine being beneficial, especially as I'm feeling a lot better. We'll see!
     
  17. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    I didn't drink much coffee ever till last year and now wonder how I could ever coped without it. I was a major green tea drinker, but now think even a cup a day may have had a damaging effect on my thyroid, combined with other factors like age-related estrogen dominance and accumulated PUFAs. I have read that some people have liver issues that cause them to process caffeine differently but would somewhat assume that might be something that could be overcome...... My limit is probably 3 cups of coffee or less a day- more than that and I might have issues also, though at this point I am inclined to think it does more good than harm.
     
  18. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Coffee and caffeine just isn't for everyone. Many people's systems can be sensitive to the stress-inducing effects of stimulants. Personally, I do enjoy the immediate kick from coffee, but it never lasts long, and after years of trial and error there seems to be no way to avoid the inevitable post-caffeine crash. Yes, I've tried lots of sugar and cream, and always drink coffee on a full stomach, and it may help a little, sure, but in the end I will always regret drinking it. I have also been adhering to a Peat/Droddy diet fanatically for the past few months, and am in relatively good health. I suspect my system reacts to it with a massive cortisol spike, in turn increasing other stress hormones and antagonizing beneficial ones. I'm sure caffiene does provide significant health benefits, but it's wrong to take Dr. Peat's approval and generalize it as a universal truth; the pro's don't outweigh the cons for many of us. (I am also being to suspect that some degree of confirmation bias plays a role in Peat's endorsement of coffee-the man clearly enjoys his brew)
     
  19. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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    I would look at supplementing magnesium if you are crashing after coffee.
     
  20. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Tannin is considered a carcinogen, tannin content of black tea is twice the amount in coffee.
    Lemon and milk possibly neutralize tannins. This is one of the reason RP recommends against
    spices, many spices are high in tannin and other risky polyphenols.
    Green tea contains a large amount of aromatase inhibitor ( this lowers estrogen) compared to
    black tea.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15661801
    There are tons of studies showing health benefits of drinking coffee .
    Someone posted a study here that showed coffee increased estrogen in women.
    But that was not a good study. I send that study to RP and he send me these studies.
    viewtopic.php?t=1543&p=18116#p18116
     
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