Anyone Have Luck Finding Anti-anxiety Answers?

[Koveras]

I think limiting lipolysis and fat oxidation is very helpful

Promoting at least some saturated fat oxidation was the turning point for my lifelong anxiety, by eating somewhat more fat than what I get from "just" whole milk or butter used as seasoning. Seeing the number of anxiety complaints people are reporting following low fat diets even on this forum, I think the poster may want to keep that in mind if attempting it. I find that gelatin and animal protein (from protein rich sources like cheese for example) are useful on top of that. They prolonge satiety in addition to lowering anxiety, I think both are sort of related. Drugs like cyproheptadine are also powerful, unfortunately the side effects can be quite strong and so it may or may not be useful. I found some herbs like cascara are surprisingly powerful too and without such side effects.

+1 on saturated fat. Low fat diets <15g made me feel awful. I think the side effects of cyproheptadine are over exaggerated however.

Good points, and I do mean limiting, NOT eliminating.

Limiting lipolysis can be done by getting enough calories, with an appropriate meal frequency, more of less regardless of the macronutrient composition (although a low carb diet would still cause an increase in some of the counterregulatory hormones involved in the stress response).

Limiting fat oxidation can also be done on a mixed diet, maybe slightly favouring carbs, but with some self experimentation to find the optimal amount of fat and/or food types to promote satiety. The meal frequency and calorie levels play in here as well.

 

[InChristAlone]

I have struggled with this for 2 years on and off, when its not happening I'm fine like he said, but then when it hits its hard to keep calm, but is absolutely essential or yeah the whole day could be ruined. It all depends on the cause, it could be just plain old reactive hypoglycemia, in which case sugar for sure helps. I have also found that it could be histamine intolerance. Adrenaline is our most powerful antihistamine. Hard to know a definite cause without experimenting. Also this type of stuff is common in people with thyroid disease. In which case a healing lifestyle is paramount.

 

[lexis]

Traumas can be stored in the body and can contribute to anxiety..Some people call it dark energy.Bath in magnesium water can be helpful

There are also devices which can alter the bio energetic fields.These devices are very popular in Russia

 

[Peata]

For me, keeping blood sugar up (a lot of times intense anger/anxiety is resolved in an almost miraculous way with food).

I also take aspirin, pregnenolone, niacinamide, k2 for various reasons, but I think they are helping me with stress as well.

@haidut (thought you'd like to see the feedback too) By the way, my rat started Ritanserin, and has been feeling pretty stable with it as far as some of the things that Cypro used to help it with (but Cypro could cause increase appetite/weight, sedation at first, etc.) Ritanserin hasn't caused any side effect so far. The rat likes the subtle "chilled out" effect like it got with Cypro. Meaning things that used to be a big deal or bothered it aren't so important now. Some social anxiety going away.

However, for those intense situation type of anxieties that hit you all at once, there's still a huge adrenaline response. I've been thinking of experimenting with making a "shot" of salt and sugar in a bit of water or something, and playing around with the amounts. I remember I had fairly good results with acute anxiety situations back when I'd shoot salt.

 

[Koveras]

I have struggled with this for 2 years on and off, when its not happening I'm fine like he said, but then when it hits its hard to keep calm, but is absolutely essential or yeah the whole day could be ruined. It all depends on the cause, it could be just plain old reactive hypoglycemia, in which case sugar for sure helps. I have also found that it could be histamine intolerance. Adrenaline is our most powerful antihistamine. Hard to know a definite cause without experimenting. Also this type of stuff is common in people with thyroid disease. In which case a healing lifestyle is paramount.

Agree that histamine is often a factor in many issues but one should keep in mind that relying on adrenaline here (in non life threatening situations) could be a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

“When carbon dioxide production is low, because of hypothyroidism, there will usually be some lactate entering the blood even at rest, because adrenalin and noradrenalin are produced in large amounts to compensate for hypothyroidism, and the adrenergic stimulation, besides mobilizing glucose from the glycogen stores, stimulates the production of lactate. The excess production of lactate displaces carbon dioxide from the blood, partly as a compensation for acidity. The increased impulse to breath (“ventilatory drive”) produced by adrenalin makes the problem worse, and lactate can promote the adrenergic response, in a vicious circle.”

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/03/27/low-co2-in-hypothyroidism/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18059441

"Panic disorder is a severe anxiety disorder characterized by susceptibility to induction of panic attacks by subthreshold interoceptive stimuli such as 0.5 M sodium lactate infusions. "

A key role for orexin in panic anxiety. - PubMed - NCBI

"Panic disorder is a severe anxiety disorder with recurrent, debilitating panic attacks. In individuals with panic disorder there is evidence of decreased central gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) activity as well as marked increases in autonomic and respiratory responses after intravenous infusions of hypertonic sodium lactate."

 

[Filip1993]

I don't know why but nicotine helps my anxiety, I use nicotine spray, no cigarettes. I rely on it when I'm in school. Avoiding caffeine also helps, I don't drink coffee anymore. Also spaghetti bolognese. Weird tips but it works for me haha.

 

[jyb]

+1 on saturated fat. Low fat diets <15g made me feel awful. I think the side effects of cyproheptadine are over exaggerated however.

I consider myself experienced with cyproheptadine as I once built up to very high doses (40mg/day) and was on high dose for months. Yet, despite my experience, I barely ever used it since then as I find that the side effects are not worth it (even the initial 0.25-0.5mg doses). Good for occasional emergencies for sure, and always worth experimenting, but less so for chronic anxiety problems.

 

[DaveFoster]

Also spaghetti bolognese.

Oh, how I miss thee, dear spaghetti.

 

[jyb]

Limiting lipolysis can be done by getting enough calories, with an appropriate meal frequency, more of less regardless of the macronutrient composition (although a low carb diet would still cause an increase in some of the counterregulatory hormones involved in the stress response).

Provided the total energy intake is reasonable - I think increasing meal frequency is not necessarily the root cause here, in fact feeling an urge to do so is not necessarily a good sign. I needed frequent meals of low fat carb meals yet was considerably more anxious. To some extent that makes sense, robustness to meal timing is a sign of increased satiety, that energy demands are met and as a consequence, greater health and "metabolic flexibility" (not my term, just what is commonly used in metabolic disease studies). If you get anxious without frequent meals, imagine the massive spikes of stress you experience when sleeping 8 hours - every single night.

 

[Filip1993]

Oh, how I miss thee, dear spaghetti.

Do you have a problem digesting spaghetti? Otherwise I don't really see why you should avoid it.

 

[Peater Piper]

Do you have a problem digesting spaghetti? Otherwise I don't really see why you should avoid it.

Perhaps Dave doesn't chew his spaghetti properly, and ends up choking on foot long strands that need to be pulled from the throat. Or maybe I'm the only one dumb enough to do that.

 

[InChristAlone]

Agree that histamine is often a factor in many issues but one should keep in mind that relying on adrenaline here (in non life threatening situations) could be a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

“When carbon dioxide production is low, because of hypothyroidism, there will usually be some lactate entering the blood even at rest, because adrenalin and noradrenalin are produced in large amounts to compensate for hypothyroidism, and the adrenergic stimulation, besides mobilizing glucose from the glycogen stores, stimulates the production of lactate. The excess production of lactate displaces carbon dioxide from the blood, partly as a compensation for acidity. The increased impulse to breath (“ventilatory drive”) produced by adrenalin makes the problem worse, and lactate can promote the adrenergic response, in a vicious circle.”

Low CO2 in Hypothyroidism – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

Neural pathways underlying lactate-induced panic. - PubMed - NCBI

"Panic disorder is a severe anxiety disorder characterized by susceptibility to induction of panic attacks by subthreshold interoceptive stimuli such as 0.5 M sodium lactate infusions. "

A key role for orexin in panic anxiety. - PubMed - NCBI

"Panic disorder is a severe anxiety disorder with recurrent, debilitating panic attacks. In individuals with panic disorder there is evidence of decreased central gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) activity as well as marked increases in autonomic and respiratory responses after intravenous infusions of hypertonic sodium lactate."

You say it like people are willingly just relying on adrenaline to get by, no not at all, in my case, I woke up this morning had a glass of OJ with some other food and quickly had a blood sugar drop, it happens extremely fast. I am not sure why it happens post breakfast for me, but it happens frequently around day 20 of my menstrual cycle. At least I know that if my blood sugar drops or histamine levels get too high that I'm not going to die. Many people don't have that reassurance. Particularly diabetics, or allergic sufferers. I can appreciate that my body knows how to protect itself. And I have been doing all that I can to recover from this. It took some pretty life changing stuff, but it is getting better. Panic disorder can also be triggered by CCK, Peat has written about that. CCK is released upon ingestion of proteins and fats. Lactate is definitely a trigger too.

 

[DaveFoster]

You say it like people are willingly just relying on adrenaline to get by, no not at all, in my case, I woke up this morning had a glass of OJ with some other food and quickly had a blood sugar drop, it happens extremely fast. I am not sure why it happens post breakfast for me, but it happens frequently around day 20 of my menstrual cycle. At least I know that if my blood sugar drops or histamine levels get too high that I'm not going to die. Many people don't have that reassurance. Particularly diabetics, or allergic sufferers. I can appreciate that my body knows how to protect itself. And I have been doing all that I can to recover from this. It took some pretty life changing stuff, but it is getting better. Panic disorder can also be triggered by CCK, Peat has written about that. CCK is released upon ingestion of proteins and fats. Lactate is definitely a trigger too.

Have you considered something that's an adrenaline antagonist, Janelle? My psych recently gave me a low dose of mirtazapine (7.5 mg), and I'm taking an even lower dose (1.5 mg or so). It's helping quite a bit with my excessive worry and adrenaline.

It's hard to tell, but this coincided with me taking antibiotics (metronidazole and cephalexin), along with cascara. This combo of keeping serotonin low via antibiotics and quit transit, plus the anti-serotonin and anti-adrenaline effects of mirtazapine (although it has mixed adrenergic effects in the brain for example,) has left me feeling very positive. I hope it lasts.

Perhaps Dave doesn't chew his spaghetti properly, and ends up choking on foot long strands that need to be pulled from the throat. Or maybe I'm the only one dumb enough to do that.

I always used to do that, much to the dismay of my dad.

Do you have a problem digesting spaghetti? Otherwise I don't really see why you should avoid it.

Ray spoke once of a kid who ate starch and became irritated, angry, aggressive, and generally condemnable. I'm also that kid.

 

[Koveras]

You say it like people are willingly just relying on adrenaline to get by, no not at all, in my case, I woke up this morning had a glass of OJ with some other food and quickly had a blood sugar drop, it happens extremely fast. I am not sure why it happens post breakfast for me, but it happens frequently around day 20 of my menstrual cycle. At least I know that if my blood sugar drops or histamine levels get too high that I'm not going to die. Many people don't have that reassurance. Particularly diabetics, or allergic sufferers. I can appreciate that my body knows how to protect itself. And I have been doing all that I can to recover from this. It took some pretty life changing stuff, but it is getting better. Panic disorder can also be triggered by CCK, Peat has written about that. CCK is released upon ingestion of proteins and fats. Lactate is definitely a trigger too.

Citrus foods could potentially contribute to the histamine issues in some individuals.

There was a good overview of histamine here:

Histamine and histamine intolerance

 

[raypeatclips]

I consider myself experienced with cyproheptadine as I once built up to very high doses (40mg/day) and was on high dose for months. Yet, despite my experience, I barely ever used it since then as I find that the side effects are not worth it (even the initial 0.25-0.5mg doses). Good for occasional emergencies for sure, and always worth experimenting, but less so for chronic anxiety problems.

Wow you are a machine. What were your experiences on 40mg?

 

[InChristAlone]

Have you considered something that's an adrenaline antagonist, Janelle? My psych recently gave me a low dose of mirtazapine (7.5 mg), and I'm taking an even lower dose (1.5 mg or so). It's helping quite a bit with my excessive worry and adrenaline.

It's hard to tell, but this coincided with me taking antibiotics (metronidazole and cephalexin), along with cascara. This combo of keeping serotonin low via antibiotics and quit transit, plus the anti-serotonin and anti-adrenaline effects of mirtazapine (although it has mixed adrenergic effects in the brain for example,) has left me feeling very positive. I hope it lasts.

I have only tried the cypro, which is actually really awesome for me, I went from waking up every night at 3 am needing something to get back to sleep to mostly just sleeping with just .25mg a night. Thing is after about a month on it I feel like my hypothyroidism is coming to the surface... I used to have bang on temps of 98.6 or higher past couple days despite being 2nd half of my cycle I'm 98.1... So I am trying to get back on coffee and see if that helps, otherwise I'm going to have to go back off the cypro. I don't really need much else for my condition besides good sleep and good food. Just haven't figured out why I get a postbreakfast crash. Glad you are doing well on the mirtazapine and antibiotics. I want to try a gut protocol. I have tetracyclines but not sure if I want to go that route or the bigpeatowski route.

 

[InChristAlone]

Citrus foods could potentially contribute to the histamine issues in some individuals.

Yes I have considered certain food items like citrus contributing to an adrenaline rush, but it is so variable. I hate not knowing for sure! I try to avoid eliminating any food that I like and gives me ample cals and nutrition. I don't know how people do without juice or fruit in their diet, I need it! And fresh fruits aren't always easy to come by. Otherwise I would gladly live on fresh foods only.

 

[jyb]

Wow you are a machine. What were your experiences on 40mg?

As far as I can remember, I don't think it was different from any high dose, which I define as a few pills of 4mg.

 

[Mittir]

I woke up this morning had a glass of OJ with some other food and quickly had a blood sugar drop, it happens extremely fast. I am not sure why it happens post breakfast for me,.

If i wake up feeling stressed i need about 250-300 calories immediately.
if i drink just 1 cup of apple juice, which has only 100 calories, i feel worse.
I avoid starch for breakfast. For 250+ calories i add 2 tbs of sugar to 1 cup
of milk with instant coffee and after half an hour
drink a cup of AJ. That is about 300 calories.
What did you eat for breakfast other than OJ?
Do you eat good amount of sugar before you go to bed ? What did you eat for dinner?
If i eat starch for dinner i usually feel stressed in the morning.

OJ is the most problematic food for me. RP recommends sweet ripe
pulp free OJ.

20 minute of regular meditation completely changed the way i
experience life. It is hard for me to get agitated at things which
in past would have made very anxious and worried.
There is a study that found 8 weeks of avg 27 minute mindfulness
changed the gray matter density in amygdala and hippocampus.
Eight weeks to a better brain

 

[InChristAlone]

If i wake up feeling stressed i need about 250-300 calories immediately.
if i drink just 1 cup of apple juice, which has only 100 calories, i feel worse.
I avoid starch for breakfast. For 250+ calories i add 2 tbs of sugar to 1 cup
of milk with instant coffee and after half an hour
drink a cup of AJ. That is about 300 calories.
What did you eat for breakfast other than OJ?
Do you eat good amount of sugar before you go to bed ? What did you eat for dinner?
If i eat starch for dinner i usually feel stressed in the morning.

OJ is the most problematic food for me. RP recommends sweet ripe
pulp free OJ.

20 minute of regular meditation completely changed the way i
experience life. It is hard for me to get agitated at things which
in past would have made very anxious and worried.
There is a study that found 8 weeks of avg 27 minute mindfulness
changed the gray matter density in amygdala and hippocampus.
Eight weeks to a better brain

Yes I need lots of calories in the morning, especially if I do starch. If I just have some starch then I almost always have a crash. But if I way overdo any and all carbs only carbs I didn't get the crash. My breakfast wasn't very good that morning, but it has happened after a good breakfast so I think it might be the blood sugar crash from starch. I generally have ice cream before bed, even though that too can cause a post meal crash. Lol

I have tried AJ instead of OJ but I found that too much can cause skipped beats which I never get. I thought maybe it was the added vitamin C though, we can't afford the top quality AJ. Seems it always comes back to not being able to afford the things that will make me healthy. We live in a food desert I guess.

Yeah meditation is probably key for me as well.