Anyone Have Experience With Kratom?

[PDXchef]

Maybe or perhaps it just effects some people differently than others. Effects also differ based on strain and even season leaf was harvested. I dose about 1 - 2 g at a time, which is relatively small dose compared to most accounts i have read.

 

[Kibs]

Honestly this going through bad withdrawals or it being addictive is bull ***t or over played, I think some people get sides stuck in there head and do it to them selves, Christ you get folks thinking they have gyno after there first testosterone injection. But maybe I’m being a bit harsh, everyone’s different I suppose (to a point).
I tried at one point 20g a day for weeks, took different dosages for a year and not one bad moment or withdrawal after. I also talk to others on other forums that’s the same.

Now tramadol and codeine, holy ***t did I get withdrawals.

Only started taking it again lately after 2 years, only using 5-10g twice a week pre workout.

 

[cyclops]

I tried at one point 20g a day for weeks,

How did you stake awake lol.

 

[Kibs]

Haha it relaxed me and I slept better but dident sedate. I stuck to white and green strains, used 5g 4 times a day, mainly white as it’s more energising.

White/yellow = energy, focus, relaxed (my fave pre workout)
Green/yellow = middle of the road, energy, focus, relaxed, big doses sedating
Red = sedating, pain relief (not for me, shuts me off, feels like smoking weed)

 

[cyclops]

Haha it relaxed me and I slept better but dident sedate. I stuck to white and green strains, used 5g 4 times a day, mainly white as it’s more energising.

White/yellow = energy, focus, relaxed (my fave pre workout)
Green/yellow = middle of the road, energy, focus, relaxed, big doses sedating
Red = sedating, pain relief (not for me, shuts me off, feels like smoking weed)

Interesting I found that larger doses (like over 5 grams) tend to be sedating from any strain. But you were still feeling good effects using that much, that often? You didn't become tolerant or did it become less effective?

 

[Kibs]

No honestly no sides, no withdrawals. Now the higher dosage after a while, it wasn’t it became less effective I think it was more I got used to it. You notice a difference when you come off but not in anyway bad or negative.

Now pre workout for me personally is were it shines, due to work (12 hour shifts and having to travel, having a daughter) I can only fit in 1-2 workouts, so I go balls to the walls these days and hammer out full body workouts. Keaton’s magic for me in this regard, but never use red in this way it stops me feeling pain and you could easily **** up.

 

[Kibs]

Cyclops sorry for the novel, not sure if you were interested in the workout aspect lol.

 

[Travis]

I tried the lotus leaf. This comes from a flower and has a subtle opiate feel.

Coffee has an array of anti‐opiate compounds formed upon roasting. Quinic acids of all types lose H₂O forming a lactone, and this is further degraded upon additional roasting—making the coffees with the most anti‐opiate effects being light–medium roast. The most powerful is 4‐caffeoyl quinide, or 4‐caffeoylquinic‐1,5‐lactone, and this is on par with naloxone. This has been found in the plasma after coffee consumption, but falls back to baseline after about two hours.

Caffeine is generally thought to be the primary drug in coffee, but some people think the anti‐opiates are relevant. I wonder if anyone has any experience with coffee drinking while on kratom.. .

 

[cyclops]

I tried the lotus leaf. This comes from a flower and has a subtle opiate feel.

Coffee has an array of anti‐opiate compounds formed upon roasting. Quinic acids of all types lose H₂O forming a lactone, and this is further degraded upon additional roasting—making the coffees with the most anti‐opiate effects being light–medium roast. The most powerful is 4‐caffeoyl quinide, or 4‐caffeoylquinic‐1,5‐lactone, and this is on par with naloxone. This has been found in the plasma after coffee consumption, but falls back to baseline after about two hours.

Caffeine is generally thought to be the primary drug in coffee, but some people think the anti‐opiates are relevant. I wonder if anyone has any experience with coffee drinking while on kratom.. .

Why would the most anti-opiate be a light-medium roast than? Why not a light roast?

 

[Travis]

Why would the most anti-opiate be a light-medium roast than? Why not a light roast?

If it's too light then it won't have enough; green coffee has zero. The 'light–medium roast' suggestion comes directly from the most thorough study ever conducted on the formation of quinic acid lactones upon roasting—found below:

Farah, Adriana. "Effect of roasting on the formation of chlorogenic acid lactones in coffee." Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2005)​

 

[Smee]

Honestly this going through bad withdrawals or it being addictive is bull ***t or over played, I think some people get sides stuck in there head and do it to them selves, Christ you get folks thinking they have gyno after there first testosterone injection. But maybe I’m being a bit harsh, everyone’s different I suppose (to a point).
I tried at one point 20g a day for weeks, took different dosages for a year and not one bad moment or withdrawal after. I also talk to others on other forums that’s the same.

Now tramadol and codeine, holy ***t did I get withdrawals.

Only started taking it again lately after 2 years, only using 5-10g twice a week pre workout.

From what I have heard Tramadol w/d is one of the worst due to it's SSRI-like properties. Never cared for tramadol. Worst withdrawals I ever experienced was when coming off of poppy seeds. Sounds crazy but there are actually a lot of people hooked on the ***t.

 

[Smee]

No honestly no sides, no withdrawals. Now the higher dosage after a while, it wasn’t it became less effective I think it was more I got used to it. You notice a difference when you come off but not in anyway bad or negative.

Now pre workout for me personally is were it shines, due to work (12 hour shifts and having to travel, having a daughter) I can only fit in 1-2 workouts, so I go balls to the walls these days and hammer out full body workouts. Keaton’s magic for me in this regard, but never use red in this way it stops me feeling pain and you could easily **** up.

Kratom, for me, decreases muscular endurance significantly. I've read of others that report this as well and that there may be some interaction between kratom and blood glucose regulation.

 

[X3CyO]

Helps with anxiety, very relaxing.

Loss of muscle endurance, makes me act weird, and feel weird with concurrent use. Can lead to ulcers.

 

[Kibs]

Late reply but regarding muscle endurance, that never effected me but everyone’s different. Could also be the fact I’m back on testosterone though.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I have been around some recreational light users, who were fine, so I think it is fine for occasional use (spread out like up to 6 times a month), or to deliberately use to get through a hard couple of weeks (e.g. quitting opiates). Anything more and it looks like the addictive draw starts to take over, particularly if you are the type of person who easily becomes substance dependent. For those who use daily; Okay maybe quitting is easy to do, a couple sick days, but how long in reality before you will be going back to using? I have a hunch that extended use changes around enough neurologically that a lot of people become dependent and long-term users with it much like with opiates, sure you may "quit" for a few weeks, but that's not the same as being sober or a light / occasional user and feeling satisfied from your natural dopamine system . I think there is a threshold with it where it can start to do some long lasting damage on your brain's reward system. I have been around a handful of people who abused the ***t out of kratom and used large amounts daily just to feel normal. I would categorize it like so: if you truly aren't already an opiate addict and also know how to take it responsibly then it is pretty harmless, if you have addictive tendencies and start to rely on taking large doses daily well then it can easily take over your life.

Someone who I worked around frequently for several years started using every day for a year, his use got so bad I had to cut him out of my life. At first my opinion of him was neutral, but the kratom phase made me outright despise him. His compulsion to lie his way in to and out of anything was despicable. I think he was using about 15 grams daily, it took about 2 months for him to go full on dependent, he would throw a fit and have to leave work and buy more when his bag ran out, 75% of his day he had his green juice in hand. If he was not on it he was completely short-tempered, paranoid, and manipulative, and then if he was on it he was so chilled out it was annoying, neither sober nor stoned side jived, it started to be like this person had split personality disorder. He was so clearly zonked out on it that he never remembered how I already turned down his past offers on kratom, he'd always be like "hey man try some of this it's awesome", I'd say "no I'm not in to that it doesn't agree with me", and then the next day we would repeat that all over again. That typical junkie like behavior when someone pretends to be there and on board but is actually not retaining a single thing, where they are cross eyed and looking at you saying "sure thing" but you know nobody is home, and they are so blatantly drugged out but also they are grinning to them-self thinking they are somehow fooling you, where nothing translates from day to day, or even hour to hour. A complete space cadet for 50% of the day, with terrible mood swings. He would look sick in the morning by the end of that year, the heavy kratom use was ravaging his system.

I'm sure the drug is not as bad as what I just described for most, but it really is a drug, and it really gets played down as being herbal and safe and low risk. On the spectrum of how bad it would be to use daily: I'd say it is twice as worse for you than pot, and just slightly better for you than cocaine.

 

[Arnold Grape]

I have been around some recreational light users, who were fine, so I think it is fine for occasional use (spread out like up to 6 times a month), or to deliberately use to get through a hard couple of weeks (e.g. quitting opiates). Anything more and it looks like the addictive draw starts to take over, particularly if you are the type of person who easily becomes substance dependent. For those who use daily; Okay maybe quitting is easy to do, a couple sick days, but how long in reality before you will be going back to using? I have a hunch that extended use changes around enough neurologically that a lot of people become dependent and long-term users with it much like with opiates, sure you may "quit" for a few weeks, but that's not the same as being sober or a light / occasional user and feeling satisfied from your natural dopamine system . I think there is a threshold with it where it can start to do some long lasting damage on your brain's reward system. I have been around a handful of people who abused the ***t out of kratom and used large amounts daily just to feel normal. I would categorize it like so: if you truly aren't already an opiate addict and also know how to take it responsibly then it is pretty harmless, if you have addictive tendencies and start to rely on taking large doses daily well then it can easily take over your life.

Someone who I worked around frequently for several years started using every day for a year, his use got so bad I had to cut him out of my life. At first my opinion of him was neutral, but the kratom phase made me outright despise him. His compulsion to lie his way in to and out of anything was despicable. I think he was using about 15 grams daily, it took about 2 months for him to go full on dependent, he would throw a fit and have to leave work and buy more when his bag ran out, 75% of his day he had his green juice in hand. If he was not on it he was completely short-tempered, paranoid, and manipulative, and then if he was on it he was so chilled out it was annoying, neither sober nor stoned side jived, it started to be like this person had split personality disorder. He was so clearly zonked out on it that he never remembered how I already turned down his past offers on kratom, he'd always be like "hey man try some of this it's awesome", I'd say "no I'm not in to that it doesn't agree with me", and then the next day we would repeat that all over again. That typical junkie like behavior when someone pretends to be there and on board but is actually not retaining a single thing, where they are cross eyed and looking at you saying "sure thing" but you know nobody is home, and they are so blatantly drugged out but also they are grinning to them-self thinking they are somehow fooling you, where nothing translates from day to day, or even hour to hour. A complete space cadet for 50% of the day, with terrible mood swings. He would look sick in the morning by the end of that year, the heavy kratom use was ravaging his system.

I'm sure the drug is not as bad as what I just described for most, but it really is a drug, and it really gets played down as being herbal and safe and low risk. On the spectrum of how bad it would be to use daily: I'd say it is twice as worse for you than pot, and just slightly better for you than cocaine.

This. Knew someone whose sister was struggling hard because of the kratom and making poor life choices. (Anecdotal.)

 

[Captain_Coconut]

This. Knew someone whose sister was struggling hard because of the kratom and making poor life choices. (Anecdotal.)

Sometimes I wish it were illegal, not because I don't think it has value, but simply because it would keep stupid people from taking it like it has no repercussions. It is nearly the most addictive life-changing legal drug I can think of, second to alcohol which is at least something people are a little bit educated on (most sane people know not to get drunk at work or they will get fired).

 

[cyclops]

I wouldn't mess with this stuff guys. Fun at first, but addictive and leads to negative feelings.

 

[General Orange]

Caffeine is generally thought to be the primary drug in coffee, but some people think the anti‐opiates are relevant. I wonder if anyone has any experience with coffee drinking while on kratom.. .

1 cup maybe 2 coffee with kratom green 3-5g is oke, but any more makes me highly irritated, not relaxed anymore, almost aggressive. One time I drink strong coffee and Yerba Mate before kratom, that was so a-relax. Get very agitated.

 

[Aleeri]

Caffeine is generally thought to be the primary drug in coffee, but some people think the anti‐opiates are relevant. I wonder if anyone has any experience with coffee drinking while on kratom.. .

Kratom is in the same plant family as coffee and it is known that they go well together and can potentiate each other's effects.

What I know from the research I read is that the opiate effects of kratom are very mild, it does not affect the receptors in the same way as the stronger opiate drugs and it has a ceiling, meaning that it is impossible to OD and go beyond a certain point no matter how much you consume.

I think it is probably one of the most undervalued plants there is and for medical purposes holds more potential than cannabis. I mean an opiate-like compound that won't kill you is amazing in itself.

Peating is great and all, but if you got hit by a car tomorrow and have to spend the next 12 months in a wheelchair with excruciating pain, no amount of Peating in the world will help you ease that suffering. Kratom will and it won't leave you a heroin addict or dying from a fentanyl overdose afterwards.

Besides, I would say that the withdrawal from Kratom is just slightly worse than caffeine. Tobacco is legal and more damaging/addictive and the withdrawal from that is on an astronomical level when it comes to smoking. All in all, there is no logic in banning or condemning Kratom if we going to keep Tobacco and Alcohol legal which do way more damage.

I am not sure if it's ok for me to post this but this is a PDF of a book that compiles almost all the research on the chemistry and pharmacology of Kratom:
Dropbox - Raffa, Robert B.-Kratom and Other Mitragynines_ The Chemistry and Pharmacology of Opioids from a Non-Opium Source-Crc Press (2014).pdf