Anyone Had Health Improvements From Reducing Caffeine Intake?

[Collden]

There is the other possibility that although caffeine has been historically helpful for accelerating speed of thought and human development when our culture was less complex, we are now reaching a point where human society has become so complex that caffeine rather contributes to the overburdening of our limited cognitive capacity and making us lose sight of the forest for all the trees. You can see evidence of this in sciences and other areas where progress appears to be speeding up but is simultaneously becoming more trivial. But I'm still not sure that caffeine is a culprit here since the few truly visionary thinkers we still have (like Ray Peat and Elon Musk) all consume caffeine.

 

[TheSir]

The evidence is clear, we live in a highly competitive society where everyone is always trying to find ways to get ahead. If caffeine avoidance had advantages for performance everyone at the top would be doing it.

No, this is still fallacious. Since caffeine is ingrained in the worker culture, it doesn't have to offer any benefits at all for the present situation to exist. Rather, it's simply something that you partake in while you work. Some get away with it, others don't. The people who are at top have no reason to quit caffeine, because it has not prevented them from getting to the top.

There is little sense in arguing that substance dependence is more optimal than baseline sobriety and health. If we are talking about sickness, which certainly is prevalent in the modern work industry, then there can be therapeutic value to such dependence.Furthermore, you are exaggerating how many people ingest caffeine. There are plenty of successful people who drink none.

 

[TheSir]

Although Nietzsche was a very influential philosopher he wasn't exactly a model of physical or mental health.

From what I can see Tesla was a heavy coffee drinker for much of his life, when did he stop drinking it?

Tesla thought coffee was poison.

A drastic, if not unconstitutional, measure is now being put thru in this country to prevent the consumption of alcohol and yet it is a positive fact that coffee, tea, tobacco, chewing gum and other stimulants, which are freely indulged in even at the tender age, are vastly more injurious to the national body, judging from the number of those who succumb. So, for instance, during my student years I gathered from the published necrologues in Vienna, the home of coffee drinkers, that deaths from heart trouble sometimes reached sixty-seven per cent of the total. Similar observations might probably be made in cities where the consumption of tea is excessive. These delicious beverages superexcite and gradually exhaust the fine fibers of the brain.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I now only use it weekly, low dose caffeine 200mg always in conjunction with sports. Due to this, there is no stimulant hang over to be had; the metabolic milieu during and after exercise reduces the negative adaptations seemingly.

 

[LLight]

"Another theory, first proposed in the 1950s, suggests that uric acid is structural homolog of caffeine (which in turn is a structural homolog of adenosine), and that high uric acid levels promoted mental alertness for primates and contributed to the development of human intelligence [8]. This hypothesis has been increasingly supported by experimental observations, although its role in evolution remains to be confirmed."
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The Role of Uric Acid as an Endogenous Danger Signal in Immunity and Inflammation

Uric acid's production is catalized by xanthine oxidase, which could be upregulated by water restriction:

Dehydration has been found to increase ROS in plants. The source of these ROS seem to be these same enzymes:
The plant Mo-hydroxylases aldehyde oxidase and xanthine dehydrogenase have distinct reactive oxygen species signatures and are induced by drought and abscisic acid - PubMed
"Plant ROS production and transcript levels of AO and XDH were rapidly upregulated by application of abscisic acid and in water-stressed leaves and roots. These results, supported by in vivo measurement of ROS accumulation, indicate that plant AO and XDH are possible novel sources for ROS increase during water stress."

"The ability of human xanthine oxido-reductase to generate O2 and/or H2O2 in the presence of hypoxanthine and xanthine is well established and has led to the proposed role of the enzyme as a source of ROS in a range of humanpathological and physiological situations. In this case, ROS activity is the result of specific post-translational processingof the normal enzyme. NADH oxidase activity of mammalian XDH has also been detected; however, the physiological function of this activity has yet to be established (Harrison,2002; Sanders et al., 1997). The high homology between animal and plant XDH led us to hypothesize that XDH can also be a source of ROS in plants, either as O2 or H2O2 products."

I believe it's known that hyperosmolarity also induces ROS in mammalian cells.

 

[Ableton]

Why are you guys trying to generalize coffee? It is clearly good for some and bad for others and situation dependent

If your parasympathetic nervous system is underactive its good for you if your metabolism can sustain it. The caffeine

on top of that coffee is more than caffeine, and those substances seem to be overwhelmingly good for us as far as I can tell

Coffee/coffeehouses have literally been theorized to have had their part in kickstarting enlightenment after centuries of intellectual poverty

 

[YourUniverse]

I think we've learned a lot more about coffee and how to drink it effectively since Tesla's days

 

[jb116]

I think he stopped after his early 20s or so. Yeah, I was trying to use Nietsche example as someone who mentioned (not directly) that for him coffee somewhat halted deeper thinking. Agree otherwise.

I remember that quote from ecce homo. He (was) still is one of my favorites to read. He had said "no coffee, it spreads the darkness. Water is sufficient."
Let's not forget he had myopia, migraines, digestive problems, and (probably) a history of mind-altering substance, possibly a stint of opium. He was not fit to drink, what could have only been black, unsweetened coffee, since he never addressed his health. What he experienced was the stress of that kind of coffee drinking already exacerbating on-going health issues. He mentioned he wished he had studied physiology rather than philology which he jokingly, but maybe sincerely, felt as useless ultimately.

 

[metabolizm]

used to drink big amounts of coffee and got constipated, every time.

That's been exactly my experience too, although I haven't figured out why exactly it's causing constipation, while for some it relieves constipation.

 

[Jessie]

I think it all boils down to liver health. Coffee/Caffeine is a very powerful metabolic stimulant, much like thyroid, however most people (here anyways) don't really dose thyroid in large amounts. They take small amounts (>3mcgs) at a time. With caffeine however, people take much larger concentrations of it. In fact strong coffee is always emphasized.

So if somone has compromised liver function and they can't hold large amounts of glycogen, it's very likely that high intakes of caffeine is draining people's glucose stores. And once those stores are drained you switch to the increase FAO stressed state.

It's very likely that you can reduce stress in these scenarios by just focusing on nourishing the body with glucose and temporarily discontinuing all stimulants. However if your liver is good, then I would probably keep drinking coffee, because it can actually help keep the liver lean.

 

[metabolizm]

I have experimented a lot with it, and when my food intake is highest, stress lowest coffee is the best.
If I am stressed already its terrible. If I undereat as well. If I am high adrenaline it’s bad too.

one thing you should consider is that benefits from quitting coffee might be benefits of less liquid intake.

peaters tend to drink too much

Yes, under-eating + caffeine can be a dangerous game. And all too easy to fall into that trap while trying to eat like RP.

 

[Explorer]

I wonder if creativity thing is due restricted blood flow to brains. During long walks I am often surprised at ideas or "connecting dots" occurances. When I drink coffee it's like woodpecker operates in my brain lol. No amount of sugar, cream or milk helps ☺

I too get more ideas/creativity/realizations walking I wonder what causes it.

 

[equipoise]

That's been exactly my experience too, although I haven't figured out why exactly it's causing constipation, while for some it relieves constipation.

I've kind of reseted my tolerance the last few days so it's better.

I find caffeine extremely addicting, much more than cigs or some drugs even. Like literally the caffeine kick is better than snorting EU amphetamine sulphate (since it's cut to ***t with ***t!).

But yeah, no thanks.

There's also a difference between being lazy and drinking instant coffee and actually preparing a mocca.

Instant coffee fails to deliver anti-constipation effects for me.

And the most important thing I've noticed is:

Needs to be dosed every few hours. This way I can't ingest more than 400mg of caffeine per 6 hours. Which, at my current health is my percieved clearing time.
Other times I wouldn't even notice that I had a 1,5g of caffeine in form of coffee in like 2 hours.

 

[Broken man]

People with bad gut have problems with coffee.

 

[metabolizm]

People with bad gut have problems with coffee.

People with bad gut have problems with just about everything.

 

[metabolizm]

Instant coffee fails to deliver anti-constipation effects for me.

Same here, pretty much. The thing with instant coffee is that I need quite a large amount in my cup in order to get any flavour, so the caffeine content is naturally higher. I do find it somewhat less likely to cause constipation, or anxiety, or gut issues than any other form off coffee though.

Still, I’m better off without it. No question.

 

[Collden]

One thing I'm realising with coffee is that the maximum dose you can tolerate is not the same as the optimal dose, just because you can push yourself over time to tolerate more and more coffee without going bananas doesn't mean you should. Probably the optimal dose is something like half or less of the maximal amount you can drink without problems. I've been back to drinking coffee regularly for over 3 years now and I find that my sweet spot hasn't really changed since the beginning, roughly 150mg a day, even though I can "tolerate" more now.

When I have the right amount of caffeine I find it enhances mood, mindfulness, clearness of thought and emotional expressiveness. When I overshoot even 20-30% there is a subtle inhibition of thought and emotions that over time causes a negative spiral of indecisiveness and mounting stress.

Probably the optimal amount of caffeine per day is not more than what you can completely metabolise by the end of the day, so that you spend some time in a completely uncaffeinated state and retain maximal sensitivity to that first morning cup.

 

[metabolizm]

I’ve been drinking one strong French Press coffee every day, and it’s been working very well for me. If I get cocky and have another, I usually regret it. Yes, it’s about finding the sweet spot, not drinking 5 cups a day because Ray says that’s optimal (as he did in a recent interview).

 

[TheBeard]

My health majorely improved from quitting coffee altogether.
Sleep a ton better, wake up refreshed, less cramps, more mental clarity and not that jittery constant reving of the brain that leads nowhere.
More rational life choices.
More grounded.
More assertive.

 

[TheBeard]

One thing I'm realising with coffee is that the maximum dose you can tolerate is not the same as the optimal dose, just because you can push yourself over time to tolerate more and more coffee without going bananas doesn't mean you should. Probably the optimal dose is something like half or less of the maximal amount you can drink without problems. I've been back to drinking coffee regularly for over 3 years now and I find that my sweet spot hasn't really changed since the beginning, roughly 150mg a day, even though I can "tolerate" more now.

When I have the right amount of caffeine I find it enhances mood, mindfulness, clearness of thought and emotional expressiveness. When I overshoot even 20-30% there is a subtle inhibition of thought and emotions that over time causes a negative spiral of indecisiveness and mounting stress.

Probably the optimal amount of caffeine per day is not more than what you can completely metabolise by the end of the day, so that you spend some time in a completely uncaffeinated state and retain maximal sensitivity to that first morning cup.

Resisentizing yourself to caffeine is not an intra day process.
It takes roughly a 10 day wash off period.