Anyone Else Getting Increased Estrogen From T3/ASPIRIN/CYPRO/PROGESTERONE

Wagner83

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I'm reading this right now In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought (Part 1)
I have noticed that the fat I eat is the fat I wear, and quite possibly even estrogenic load/face bloat has to do with the intake of fat (and wheat?) . Gadsie had this thread where he mentioned eating <10% fat makes high carb (not high starch) work great for him but more doesn't . Someone (me? ) had linked to a paper in the past which suggested fat intake was related to estradiol (?) levels. Among other things, tarmander seems to be benefit from using olive oil rather than other fats, something tyw and Amazoniac had hinted at. The last two have often mentioned or discussed the rice diet.
 

Bart1

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@Tarmander @schultz @DaveFoster @tomisonbottom @Wagner83 @Diokine @Waynish @MyUsernameHere @BigYellowLemon

Just to follow up to this.

I've been experimenting with tyromix instead of Tyronene, and the T4 + T3 together has a lot lot less Estrogenic effects than just the T3 alone.

Anyone know why this would be
I’ve also been experimenting with both + pansterone. I have terrible high cortisol symptoms. I stopped with everything. I think because I’m hypothyroid I have elevated stress hormones to compensate for it. T3 tend to make you much more sensitive to the effects of adrenaline I read somewhere.

For me the problem is now how to break this cycle? What could I try to lower my cortisol if hypothyroid ?
 

Anders86

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I also find much less estrogen with <10% fat. Skim milk, honey, oj, collagen and coke.

Sometimes I find my nipples somewhat puffy, but mood and energy is there and I think it might be the released fat/estrogen as I find myself much slender.

Oj with some Sugar, Salt, Collagen, Creatine, Aspirin, Magnesium, Zinc, Energin, Caffeine and Vitamin K is a bulletproof way to start my morning.
 

Anders86

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I’ve also been experimenting with both + pansterone. I have terrible high cortisol symptoms. I stopped with everything. I think because I’m hypothyroid I have elevated stress hormones to compensate for it. T3 tend to make you much more sensitive to the effects of adrenaline I read somewhere.

For me the problem is now how to break this cycle? What could I try to lower my cortisol if hypothyroid ?

I love magnesium as it lowers cortisol, relaxes muscles, lift brain fog and give some GABA vibes.

Aspirin also ofcourse..
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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Why would cypro cause estrogen to rise?
Because its anticholinergic.

And for people like me who have a genetic predisposition for very low Choline, it's a terrible idea because Choline is essential for estrogen detoxification and reduction of fatty liver.

For years I was using cyproheptadine without understanding it was making my fatty liver much worse by depleting Choline

I've just started supplementing phosphatidylcholine and at last my belly is getting flat, manboobs reducing a lot, etc
 

Anders86

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Because its anticholinergic.

And for people like me who have a genetic predisposition for very low Choline, it's a terrible idea because Choline is essential for estrogen detoxification and reduction of fatty liver.

For years I was using cyproheptadine without understanding it was making my fatty liver much worse by depleting Choline

I've just started supplementing phosphatidylcholine and at last my belly is getting flat, manboobs reducing a lot, etc

Adamantane also does this for me with its anticholinergic effects. Do you have a good source to Choline? What is your source of phosphatidylcholine?

I find eggs a double edge sword with its fat content. I like Mitolipin but small amounts in it.

Creatine, Magnesium and Zinc is recomended for us that are genetic predisponitioned.

I tried CDP Choline, Alpha GPC, DMAE and Phosphatidylcholine some years ago. I got both good and bad effects, but diet and sources was far from optimal. I'm still considering buying some but I can't find a product I agree with besides Mitolipin..

If we can controll this mutation I think we actually might be lucky. I do feel I walk on an edge, but walking on the right side makes sure for great mood, brain function and longevity.

Undermethylation seems like the safe way to a long age, I(we) just have to make sure it is a happy life.
 
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Spartan300

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Damn.... Cypro seems to be doing this to me too. I thought it was going to be the holy grail to improve my insomnia & libido & it's done neither.

Sleep is no different at 1mg, libido seems worse......
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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Any benefits of phosphatidylcholine over sunflower lecithin?
Most products are essentially the same thing, but there's a few products such as Essentiale Forte made here in Europe which has 95% just phosphatidylcholine content and very little fat unlike Sunflower Lecithin
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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Adamantane also does this for me with its anticholinergic effects. Do you have a good source to Choline? What is your source of phosphatidylcholine?

I find eggs a double edge sword with its fat content. I like Mitolipin but small amounts in it.

Creatine, Magnesium and Zinc is recomended for us that are genetic predisponitioned.

I tried CDP Choline, Alpha GPC, DMAE and Phosphatidylcholine some years ago. I got both good and bad effects, but diet and sources was far from optimal. I'm still considering buying some but I can't find a product I agree with besides Mitolipin..

If we can controll this mutation I think we actually might be lucky. I do feel I walk on an edge, but walking on the right side makes sure for great mood, brain function and longevity.

Undermethylation seems like the safe way to a long age, I(we) just have to make sure it is a happy life.
That's really interesting Anders. Sounds like you've had similar experimentation experience to me. I'm currently using a product called Essentiale Forte which is a much more concentrated version of Phosphatydylcholine than that in sunflower lecithin. So I'm getting a lot less pufa compared to lecithin. But they annoyingly use so many dodgy excepients. It's made and sold only in Europe and Asia but I think it's available on eBay in the USA.

So have you had genetic testing done? 23 and me? The PEMT gene is the key one for us. I'm Homozygous in almost all PEMT genes.

The thing about eggs are that if you have the PEMT gene dysfunction you can't actually convert the Choline in them to phosphatidylcholine, so they won't help.

I initially responded very very well to creatine but after a month I developed terrible gall bladder problems and since stopping the creatine the pain has completely gone.

The only other big concern is TMAO from Choline supplements which has been linked to serious cardiovascular problems
 

Spartan300

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Hi Joey, I was just looking at the Essentiale Forte & it seems to be sourced from soy beans - any PUFA concerns?
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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Hi Joey, I was just looking at the Essentiale Forte & it seems to be sourced from soy beans - any PUFA concerns?
Because it's a very pure form of Phosphatydylcholine its actually the best option I've got at the moment. To get an equivalent amount of PC I would have to consume 2g or so sunflower lecithin which would have way more pufa
 

Anders86

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That's really interesting Anders. Sounds like you've had similar experimentation experience to me. I'm currently using a product called Essentiale Forte which is a much more concentrated version of Phosphatydylcholine than that in sunflower lecithin. So I'm getting a lot less pufa compared to lecithin. But they annoyingly use so many dodgy excepients. It's made and sold only in Europe and Asia but I think it's available on eBay in the USA.

So have you had genetic testing done? 23 and me? The PEMT gene is the key one for us. I'm Homozygous in almost all PEMT genes.

The thing about eggs are that if you have the PEMT gene dysfunction you can't actually convert the Choline in them to phosphatidylcholine, so they won't help.

I initially responded very very well to creatine but after a month I developed terrible gall bladder problems and since stopping the creatine the pain has completely gone.

The only other big concern is TMAO from Choline supplements which has been linked to serious cardiovascular problems

Yes I tok a 23andme a couple years ago and are Homozygous in most COMT, MAO-A, rs4244693(PEMT) and Heterozygous in MTHFR, VDR and the rest of PEMT. I have never heard anything of PEMT before, do you have any info available?

Yes TMAO is a concern and Haidut does not give a clear answer if Mitolipin raises TMAO.

One thing I didn`t mention above is that I often have a lean steak a day, with latte and collagen post-workout. I belive the steak is rich in aminos like Carnitine that helps produce more Choline. I often find myself having a bowel movement after this meal and might be a beneficial way for you with a PEMT mutation to produce some Choline. A steak is also rich in Creatine.
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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Yes I tok a 23andme a couple years ago and are Homozygous in most COMT, MAO-A, rs4244693(PEMT) and Heterozygous in MTHFR, VDR and the rest of PEMT. I have never heard anything of PEMT before, do you have any info available?

Yes TMAO is a concern and Haidut does not give a clear answer if Mitolipin raises TMAO.

One thing I didn`t mention above is that I often have a lean steak a day, with latte and collagen post-workout. I belive the steak is rich in aminos like Carnitine that helps produce more Choline. I often find myself having a bowel movement after this meal and might be a beneficial way for you with a PEMT mutation to produce some Choline. A steak is also rich in Creatine.
Yeah I find beef is the absolute best hangover cure, far better than any other protein. The combination of Choline and carnitine and creatine must be what does it. And alcohol reduces choline stores massively so my hangovers are pretty terrible.

I actually set up a Facebook group called "PEMT gene polymorphism group" because I'm trying to get people to share more info and I'm learning myself. 77 members so far, but hopefully it'll get bigger.

The strategene Facebook group and specifically dr.ben lynch has got some great videos on PEMT
 

Jsaute21

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Excess T3 will do that. I started to get puffy and itchy nipples while I was on Cynomel long before I started feeling better from it, and so I realised that this approach doesn't really work. I stopped taking thyroid hormones a long time ago anyway, fixing your own thyroid is the way to go.

However I have not had such effects from aspirin which indeed did seem to tilt more towards androgen balance in my experience - I was more determined and less afraid to speak my mind and even be rude when necessary.

Good post.
 

Tarmander

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Interesting...my RS7946 is TT...which would suggest not being able to convert Choline to PC? I admit, I tried eating something like 12 eggs a day once to reduce tummy fat and it did ***t all.
 

Tarmander

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Because its anticholinergic.

And for people like me who have a genetic predisposition for very low Choline, it's a terrible idea because Choline is essential for estrogen detoxification and reduction of fatty liver.

For years I was using cyproheptadine without understanding it was making my fatty liver much worse by depleting Choline

I've just started supplementing phosphatidylcholine and at last my belly is getting flat, manboobs reducing a lot, etc

I found that Mitolipin did this to me somewhat...belly fat and manboobs. which is weird as PC should do the opposite if it was clearing liver functions correcT? Here was part of my review for Mitolipin years ago: "I had some negative reactions as well. When I first started taking it, I had diarrhea for at least a week. Not that big a deal, it went away, but it was a little annoying. After being on it for a prolonged period of time, I started to notice gyno symptoms. Nips got pointier and bigger :(. I also oddly enough thought my muscles shrunk, but that is subjective. "

I may give PC a try on its own without the vitamin E that haidut put in the product. There are other products without the crud in Essentiale Forte:

https://www.amazon.com/Solgar-SF933...533943910&sr=8-4&keywords=phosphatidylcholine
 

schultz

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ive worked out that my fatty liver causes the estrogenic response to t3. If i have a completely zero fat breakfast, just fruit and then take t3, i dont get any estrogenic response to t3.

but t3 (even a low dose) after a meal high in fat, particularly dairy fats causes terrible estrogenic symptomns. I think its all related to the liver being overburdened.

Interesting. I wonder if it has something to do with RT3?
 

dreamcatcher

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Myself and a few other members on the forum have all noted how these specific things which Peat says are anti estrogen - cypro, t3, progesterone, aspirin - all cause an increase in Estrogen in our bodies (man boobs, puffiness, bloated, fluid retention etc. )



Conversely, Ive personally noted how other Aromatase Inhibitors, do work very well. Namely:

Activated Charcoal
Carrots
B1 + B2
Androsterone
Vit E
Vit A
5aDHP
11KetoDHT
Lugols Iodine

The difference is that the second list, makes my belly flatter, no fluid retention, no dandruff, no frequent urination, reduced puffiness etc.

Why could it be that for a small percentage of us T3, prog, Aspirin and cypro seem to increase our estrogen?

If I take more than a drop of Progesterone, I wake up with eye bags the next day.
 

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