Any Guys Here Suffering With A Thin Neck?

[thisoldtown1978]

I’ve always had a very thin neck. No matter how much weight I put on, fat or muscle, it’s always looked underdeveloped. It kinda ruins my physique overall, and makes me look weird in certain clothes.

Does anyone happen to know anything about hormones and neck development? Can it be a sign of low androgens? Is it posture related?

 

[theLaw]

Anyone Shed Their Belly-hip Fat?

Belly fat + skinny neck = high cortisol/estrogen.

I'm willing to bet that you're probably not getting enough calories.

When low-androgens are involved, calories are usually the first culprit.

You might consider meat and potatoes for calories w/additional sups to reduce iron, stabilize blood sugar, and aid digestion. Sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.

Also, a Tbsp of sugar every hour of the day is an easy way to increase calories (774 cal/200 carbs). Combines with high-dose caffeine, it would clean your liver while opposing estrogen.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Cheers @theLaw , I appreciate you researching my previous thread. I don’t think I’d have made that connection.

I actually had my cortisol tested about 3 or 4 years ago. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but the normal range was 100-300, and mine was 600. Similarly my prolactin was up in the 700s when the safe upper limit was 350 or something.

Calories is something I still definitely struggle with. I work on the road a lot, and find it hard getting good quality calories without staying up all night preparing. I’ve become too afraid of PUFA.

I don’t do well with conventional milk - it gives me geographic tongue and other digesteive issues. Otherwise that’d be a staple for cals.

Have you experienced weight loss with meeting calorie requirements? Do you think this might shed that stubborn belly fat?

 

[theLaw]

Cheers @theLaw , I appreciate you researching my previous thread. I don’t think I’d have made that connection.

Calories is something I still definitely struggle with. I work on the road a lot, and find it hard getting good quality calories without staying up all night preparing. I’ve become too afraid of PUFA.

I don’t do well with conventional milk - it gives me geographic tongue and other digesteive issues. Otherwise that’d be a staple for cals.

Have you experienced weight loss with meeting calorie requirements? Do you think this might shed that stubborn belly fat?

Personally, I only experienced weight loss after I reduced my general stress responses that ranged from inflammation to high-estrogen by increasing my calories using healthy food until I felt normal again. I remember my feet/ankles literally swelling at one point from the estrogen.

The only caution is to be aware that overburdening the liver at any time with too much carb/fat/protein might have negative consequences, although it's much harder to do this with sucrose/fructose, so you can probably go much higher with those than you think. Small doses throughout the day is probably the safest approach.

Starch seems to be the monkey-wrench for those trying to reduce fat, unless you use sups (Haidut used caffeine + k2) to clean the liver, hence the popular milk + oj basic diet.

I also noticed similar issues to what you mention with milk initially, but quickly realized that I didn't get those same reactions when starch was absent from my diet, and fat-free milk was easier to digest as I increased the amount in my diet slowly always with plenty of sugar/salt.

Belly fat might also just be inflammation, so focusing on resolving digestive issues would be a good starting point.

 

[Prosper]

Anyone Shed Their Belly-hip Fat?

Belly fat + skinny neck = high cortisol/estrogen.

I'm willing to bet that you're probably not getting enough calories.

When low-androgens are involved, calories are usually the first culprit.

You might consider meat and potatoes for calories w/additional sups to reduce iron, stabilize blood sugar, and aid digestion. Sometimes perfect is the enemy of good.

Also, a Tbsp of sugar every hour of the day is an easy way to increase calories (774 cal/200 carbs). Combines with high-dose caffeine, it would clean your liver while opposing estrogen.

Do meat & potatoes provide enough nutrients to avoid running into problems with so much sugar?

 

[theLaw]

Do meat & potatoes provide enough nutrients to avoid running into problems with so much sugar?

I was just using meat and potatoes as an example of an easy way to increase calories.

You would definitely want to keep liver, eggs, oysters, and carrot salad in the diet for basic nutrients.

From RP:

I think a total for sugar up to ten ounces can be o.k., depending on your metabolic rate and needs. Budd and Piorry used up to 12 ounces per day therapeutically.

10 ounces = 22.68Tbsp = 1097 calories

 

[YourUniverse]

Cheers @theLaw , I appreciate you researching my previous thread. I don’t think I’d have made that connection.

I actually had my cortisol tested about 3 or 4 years ago. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but the normal range was 100-300, and mine was 600. Similarly my prolactin was up in the 700s when the safe upper limit was 350 or something.

Calories is something I still definitely struggle with. I work on the road a lot, and find it hard getting good quality calories without staying up all night preparing. I’ve become too afraid of PUFA.

I don’t do well with conventional milk - it gives me geographic tongue and other digesteive issues. Otherwise that’d be a staple for cals.

Have you experienced weight loss with meeting calorie requirements? Do you think this might shed that stubborn belly fat?

I too couldn't tolerate milk well at the start. What helped me was increasing coffee intake dramatically - I believe this simultaneously a) increased metabolism, as caffeine is a thyroid surrogate, and b) cleaned the liver, allowing estrogens to be detoxified easier, further increasing metabolism. The higher metabolism allowed me to handle milk, although I'm not sure EXACTLY why - I think higher body temperature made small intestine bacteria die off (I did have some diarrhea at the beginning of the caffeine jump), and this allowed me to tolerate milk substantially better.

Before I increased coffee intake, adding 1tbsp of vinegar per 1cup of milk, and swirling each gulp around in my mouth allowed me to handle milk, but it was too annoying and unpleasant to be a long-term solution.

Large caffeine intake also counters estrogen, and to my understanding, prolactin, cortisol and estrogen are all connected, and lowering one tends to lower the others.

 

[YourUniverse]

Cheers @theLaw , I appreciate you researching my previous thread. I don’t think I’d have made that connection.

I actually had my cortisol tested about 3 or 4 years ago. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but the normal range was 100-300, and mine was 600. Similarly my prolactin was up in the 700s when the safe upper limit was 350 or something.

Calories is something I still definitely struggle with. I work on the road a lot, and find it hard getting good quality calories without staying up all night preparing. I’ve become too afraid of PUFA.

I don’t do well with conventional milk - it gives me geographic tongue and other digesteive issues. Otherwise that’d be a staple for cals.

Have you experienced weight loss with meeting calorie requirements? Do you think this might shed that stubborn belly fat?

Regarding calorie intake: I posted about a similar problem a few months ago, and I didnt believe theLaw when he told me to increase calorie intake. I thought certainly I would gain weight. I DID gain weight at the beginning, but that was before I figured things out, peat-style, for my context. I maintain my weight at just shy of 5000 calories, being basically sedentary. I would recommend figuring out your metabolic problems (which is why we're all here anyway :p) and not being afraid of calories, at least until you do.

Keys like avoiding pufa, calcium:phosphous ratio, salting and sugaring to taste, saturated fat with starches (but otherwise lowish fat), and in my situation (and probably yours too), focusing keenly on liver health, which include caffeine + k2 + taurine + ~120g protein, and you should be fine. High protein is good for the liver, and caffeine is good for the liver, but you do NOT want to mix high caffeine with high protein, or ammonia will rise.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Personally, I only experienced weight loss after I reduced my general stress responses that ranged from inflammation to high-estrogen by increasing my calories using healthy food until I felt normal again. I remember my feet/ankles literally swelling at one point from the estrogen.

The only caution is to be aware that overburdening the liver at any time with too much carb/fat/protein might have negative consequences, although it's much harder to do this with sucrose/fructose, so you can probably go much higher with those than you think. Small doses throughout the day is probably the safest approach.

Starch seems to be the monkey-wrench for those trying to reduce fat, unless you use sups (Haidut used caffeine + k2) to clean the liver, hence the popular milk + oj basic diet.

I also noticed similar issues to what you mention with milk initially, but quickly realized that I didn't get those same reactions when starch was absent from my diet, and fat-free milk was easier to digest as I increased the amount in my diet slowly always with plenty of sugar/salt.

Belly fat might also just be inflammation, so focusing on resolving digestive issues would be a good starting point.

Thanks. In terms of overburdening the liver, do you have any notion of what this feels like? Is it nausea? Pain?

 

[thisoldtown1978]

I too couldn't tolerate milk well at the start. What helped me was increasing coffee intake dramatically - I believe this simultaneously a) increased metabolism, as caffeine is a thyroid surrogate, and b) cleaned the liver, allowing estrogens to be detoxified easier, further increasing metabolism. The higher metabolism allowed me to handle milk, although I'm not sure EXACTLY why - I think higher body temperature made small intestine bacteria die off (I did have some diarrhea at the beginning of the caffeine jump), and this allowed me to tolerate milk substantially better.

Before I increased coffee intake, adding 1tbsp of vinegar per 1cup of milk, and swirling each gulp around in my mouth allowed me to handle milk, but it was too annoying and unpleasant to be a long-term solution.

Large caffeine intake also counters estrogen, and to my understanding, prolactin, cortisol and estrogen are all connected, and lowering one tends to lower the others.

Interesting - I go through stages of tolerating milk really well and then not tolerating it at all. For what it’s worth, I handle non-homogenised milk much much better. It’s almost therapeutic in that it seems to relieve the symptoms that ordinary milk brings on. I don’t know enough about it, but if I had to guess I’d say it’s something to do with gut flora.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Regarding calorie intake: I posted about a similar problem a few months ago, and I didnt believe theLaw when he told me to increase calorie intake. I thought certainly I would gain weight. I DID gain weight at the beginning, but that was before I figured things out, peat-style, for my context. I maintain my weight at just shy of 5000 calories, being basically sedentary. I would recommend figuring out your metabolic problems (which is why we're all here anyway :p) and not being afraid of calories, at least until you do.

Keys like avoiding pufa, calcium:phosphous ratio, salting and sugaring to taste, saturated fat with starches (but otherwise lowish fat), and in my situation (and probably yours too), focusing keenly on liver health, which include caffeine + k2 + taurine + ~120g protein, and you should be fine. High protein is good for the liver, and caffeine is good for the liver, but you do NOT want to mix high caffeine with high protein, or ammonia will rise.

Wow, that’s a lot of calories! Awesome, though.

I’m in a sticky situation in that I handle unhomogenised milk really well, and would drink gallons of it if it wasn’t for the high fat content. I’m going to have a go at skimming it myself.

In terms of cleaning the liver with caffeine, do you use tablets or just coffee?

 

[YourUniverse]

Wow, that’s a lot of calories! Awesome, though.

I’m in a sticky situation in that I handle unhomogenised milk really well, and would drink gallons of it if it wasn’t for the high fat content. I’m going to have a go at skimming it myself.

In terms of cleaning the liver with caffeine, do you use tablets or just coffee?

Coffee, but I have access to lots of it. I bet caffeine supplements would do the same, without the benefit of them being delicious.

 

[theLaw]

Thanks. In terms of overburdening the liver, do you have any notion of what this feels like? Is it nausea? Pain?

It would certainly be a range, but probably nausea as liver enzymes are elevated.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

I also noticed similar issues to what you mention with milk initially, but quickly realized that I didn't get those same reactions when starch was absent from my diet, and fat-free milk was easier to digest as I increased the amount in my diet slowly always with plenty of sugar/salt.

Belly fat might also just be inflammation, so focusing on resolving digestive issues would be a good starting point.

Sorry @theLaw just reread this - do you think milk and starch is a problematic combination for people with compromised digestion? Or people in general?

 

[Stud]

androgens, K2 but posture is also importanté look down your brow, your neck will look shorter and not look so much like a giraffe neck.

 

[Arnold Grape]

This happened to me when I dosed Progesterone (male) and didn't get enough calories. (I think.) It went away when I made a conscious effort to boost androgens. (Pansterone; Zinc; k2 occasionally, eating more.) If you look at dudes like Roddy or some of the other people who do a lot of 5ar stuff, I think you can see this effect is prevalent.

 

[theLaw]

Sorry @theLaw just reread this - do you think milk and starch is a problematic combination for people with compromised digestion? Or people in general?

I think it would depend on too many variables, but well-cooked potatoes + milk is probably fine if your digestion is good, but not as optimal as starch-free.

Here's a gym that posts some recipes periodically that are low-starch, which is probably the best compromise:

 

[thisoldtown1978]

androgens, K2 but posture is also importanté look down your brow, your neck will look shorter and not look so much like a giraffe neck.

Thanks man. What do you mean by looking down your brow? My posture has always been off, head jutting forward. I’ve recently tried correcting it with exercises and I now realise how my musculature has developed this way. There’s a long road ahead to correct my neck posture.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

This happened to me when I dosed Progesterone (male) and didn't get enough calories. (I think.) It went away when I made a conscious effort to boost androgens. (Pansterone; Zinc; k2 occasionally, eating more.) If you look at dudes like Roddy or some of the other people who do a lot of 5ar stuff, I think you can see this effect is prevalent.

Cheers @Arnold Grape . Do you mean to say that progesterone and low cal actually made your neck thinner? Was there a visible and physical loss of mass?

 

[Arnold Grape]

People have refuted this when I have made the statement here that Progest-e at 1x drop daily made my arms and legs, as well as my neck, thin. (I gained weight at my stomach - however, I will submit that taking it made me feel mentally better than I ever have in my life.) Prior to that I was becoming fairly fit with Preg powder and the same diet and workout routine as maintained afterward with Progesterone. (I.e. There was no caloric or exercise change.) IME these things have a cumulative effect and I am still rebounding from Prog physically. I even think that my head shape changed.