Anxiety With Methylene Blue, Cabergoline, Deprenyl, Or Even Tyrosine! Why?

Bulletproof?

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Why is it that just about any type of dopamine agonist gives me a nervous feeling in my stomach that doesn't let me sleep and gives me that wired but tired feeling? I have taken small amounts of MB (1mg), Cabergoline(1/2mg twice per week), Deprenyl (1 drop), and Tyrosine(500-1,000mg) and then within a day or two I am unable to sleep. I feel so anxious and feel like I am running on adrenaline/coritisol but I am exhausted, but can't even take a nap. Any advice would be helpful. @haidut
 

docall18

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I have experienced similar effects.

All these substances lower prolactin.

I have read that one of prolactins functions is to increase Dhea.

So you are possibly lowering prolactin and Dhea. If your Dhea is already low this is an issue.

Solution - Try adding dhea or pregnenolone???
 

papaya

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i took mb yesterday, was up all that night & tonight. i put a very large drop in a 1/2 glass of water & drank 1/2 of it. do u know how many mg that would equal?
 

barefooter

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I have experienced similar effects.

All these substances lower prolactin.

I have read that one of prolactins functions is to increase Dhea.

So you are possibly lowering prolactin and Dhea. If your Dhea is already low this is an issue.

Solution - Try adding dhea or pregnenolone???

Wow, this is very interesting, and may help explain some similar symptoms I have experienced. Thanks for sharing. I also read the second link you posted below on a theory on panic attacks, and it seems pretty reasonable.

Edit: Just wanted to add some other thoughts from my personal observations, now that I've thought about this a bit more. Pretty much all the peaty supps that are supposed to rev up metabolism (caffeine, MB, niacinamide, etc.) generally cause me to feel quite anxious, like I just need to run away from everything or something. Just an uncomfortable feeling that I cannot shake.

Of course, I follow the recommendations to get plenty of fuel with these, but it seems that no amount of calories is enough, which just never made much sense to me. I've checked my blood sugar in these states, and it's been normal, so it seems hypoglycemia is not to blame. Also, once in a state like this, stuffing my face with calories will not correct it, it seems that only time brings things back to balance.

I'm wondering if I have chronically low DHEA, and it doesn't take much to shift the DHEA/cortisol ratio into the zone that tells my body to run away from imminent danger, even if my body is adequately fueled. I have quite high prolactin, so that fits into the puzzle too as a potential fall back my body is using to boost low DHEA. Could the DHEA/cortisol ratio be what determines in stress if you feel strong and confident like holding your ground and fighting, or if your body realizes it's going to loose the fight and creates a feeling that makes you want to run?
 
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tara

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Why is it that just about any type of dopamine agonist gives me a nervous feeling in my stomach that doesn't let me sleep and gives me that wired but tired feeling? I have taken small amounts of MB (1mg), Cabergoline(1/2mg twice per week), Deprenyl (1 drop), and Tyrosine(500-1,000mg) and then within a day or two I am unable to sleep. I feel so anxious and feel like I am running on adrenaline/coritisol but I am exhausted, but can't even take a nap. Any advice would be helpful. @haidut

Of course, I follow the recommendations to get plenty of fuel with these,

Bulletproof, how much sugar and other carbs are you eating though the day? Just wondering if your moniker indicates that you are not?
 
OP
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Bulletproof?

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I have experienced similar effects.

All these substances lower prolactin.

I have read that one of prolactins functions is to increase Dhea.

So you are possibly lowering prolactin and Dhea. If your Dhea is already low this is an issue.

Solution - Try adding dhea or pregnenolone???
I do take 150mg of pregnenolone every morning and about 15mg of dhea spread throughout the day. @tara I was "bulletproof" for about a year and felt great and lost 40lbs, but then started feeling like crap and gained back about 20. It has only been about 3 weeks since I found this forum and Peat's teachings. Since then I have been eating plenty of sugar with coffee, orange juice, Hagen Daz Coffee Ice Cream that has just skim milk, cream, coffee, and sugar, and I have gained another 10lbs, but am feeling better. I have also added about 30-45mcg of T3 and 9 drops of Tyromax spread throughout the day, Estroban, Energin, Kuinone, 1,500 mg of Niacinimide, and 2-3g of Aspirin. @barefooter the only thing that seems to calm me down is Suntheanine.
 

tara

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I have also added about 30-45mcg of T3 and 9 drops of Tyromax spread throughout the day,
That's quite a fast ramp up of thyroid supps. What data are you going by to suggest you need so much? Are you monitoring body temps?
I don't know exactly what is at play for you - there could probably be many things - you've made several major changes in a short time.
Some possibilities:
Increasing thyroid supps can apparently temporarily increase sensitivity to adrenaline, which could make you feel anxious/nervous.
It could take your body a bit to get back into the swing of carb burning after a year of not.
1500 mg niacinamide seems to be fine for some people, but would be too much for some of us. Are you splitting it into multiple doses/day with food?
Are you getting plenty of magnesium?

Sometimes addressing breathing can help calm nerves. Any kind of hyperventilation, chronic hidden or more acute bouts, tends to increase stress. Ids breathing habitually relaxed, nasal, diaphragmatic? Have you tried short bursts of paper-bag breathing or other gentle reduced/slowed breathing practice to increase CO2 levels a little?
 

Ras

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i took mb yesterday, was up all that night & tonight. i put a very large drop in a 1/2 glass of water & drank 1/2 of it. do u know how many mg that would equal?
From what product came this large drop of MB?
 
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Bulletproof?

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That's quite a fast ramp up of thyroid supps. What data are you going by to suggest you need so much? Are you monitoring body temps?
I don't know exactly what is at play for you - there could probably be many things - you've made several major changes in a short time.
Some possibilities:
Increasing thyroid supps can apparently temporarily increase sensitivity to adrenaline, which could make you feel anxious/nervous.
It could take your body a bit to get back into the swing of carb burning after a year of not.
1500 mg niacinamide seems to be fine for some people, but would be too much for some of us. Are you splitting it into multiple doses/day with food?
Are you getting plenty of magnesium?

Sometimes addressing breathing can help calm nerves. Any kind of hyperventilation, chronic hidden or more acute bouts, tends to increase stress. Ids breathing habitually relaxed, nasal, diaphragmatic? Have you tried short bursts of paper-bag breathing or other gentle reduced/slowed breathing practice to increase CO2 levels a little?
I thought I was ramping up slowly on the thyroid supps. Isn't one gram of Tyromax 8 drops? I only take 3 drops 3x per day. Also, T3 is only 30-45mcg. Is that a lot? I feel better with it. My temps are higher and so is my pulse. The anxiety I have had only when I take the above mentioned dopamine agonist and I've been doing those off and on for 3-4 yrs. The Niaciminide I take at 500mg 3x per day with food. I will try the paper-bag breathing. Two other things that I have had for a LONG time now are a constantly stuffy nose. Even doing that holding your nose for 20 seconds doesn't clear it up. Also, lately I feel like i am not digesting my food properly. I get bloated a lot even if I take a dairy enzyme.
 

tara

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I thought I was ramping up slowly on the thyroid supps. Isn't one gram of Tyromax 8 drops? I only take 3 drops 3x per day. Also, T3 is only 30-45mcg. Is that a lot?
Depends who you ask. If people take too much for what their body thinks is suitable, it can take defensive counter-action to reduce the metabolism again. I favour a cautious approach because it seems more straight forward to slowly increase till you get to a suitable level than to overshoot and try to untangle the results and get to a suitable dose.

T4 has a long half-life.
I think Broda Barnes approach was to increment by 1/4 grain NDT if needed every month till waking temps came up to normal range. His range was 97.8 - 98.2, and he said that pushing it above this would likely lead to reduced endogenous production.
Peat has said you can increment T4 after two weeks (not sure about amount).
Peat usually recommends taking a tiny of nibble of T3 every hour or two as required - I interpret that as about 1-2mcg T3, and take the T4 containing supp before sleep to get your through the night. The healthy body produces about 3-4 mcg T3 /hour, and it has a short half-life.

If you try to push metabolism up with supps while there is a deficit of suitable fuel, that can cause stress.

I don't know if these are the factors affecting you personally - there could be other things going on too. I'm no expert, just read a bit.

You can't know if you are needing thryoid supps or needing more of them unless you are looking at some signs or symptoms. Temperature and heart-rate are the easiest to measure.
 

papaya

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From what product came this large drop of MB?
kordon.lol, i normally would've used a dropper but i just carefully poured a drop from the container & it looked extra large. i don't think i like mb.
 

Ras

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kordon.lol, i normally would've used a dropper but i just carefully poured a drop from the container & it looked extra large. i don't think i like mb.
If Kordon's 4oz bottle holds only a 2.3% solution of MB in water (2,714mg MB in 118g of water), and if each of its 118ml comprises thirty drops (my experience), then each normal drop should carry about .766 milligrams of MB.
 
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whit

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I do take 150mg of pregnenolone every morning and about 15mg of dhea spread throughout the day. @tara I was "bulletproof" for about a year and felt great and lost 40lbs, but then started feeling like crap and gained back about 20. It has only been about 3 weeks since I found this forum and Peat's teachings. Since then I have been eating plenty of sugar with coffee, orange juice, Hagen Daz Coffee Ice Cream that has just skim milk, cream, coffee, and sugar, and I have gained another 10lbs, but am feeling better. I have also added about 30-45mcg of T3 and 9 drops of Tyromax spread throughout the day, Estroban, Energin, Kuinone, 1,500 mg of Niacinimide, and 2-3g of Aspirin. @barefooter the only thing that seems to calm me down is Suntheanine.

Bulletproof?
I also came from the peleo low carb world and had similar experiences.
Tara is right with her suggestions. Its crucial to take it slow and intigrate your pro thyroid supps.
Mag and sodium really helped me transition. The electrolites can help calm the stress response I've found.
They support steady metabolism.
Red light therapy and bag breathing are great "hacks" to hedge off the anxiety.
Heres a Peat interview on a breathing technique many have found useful.

Right now your body is likely reeling a bit from the changes. in time balance will return.
 
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Bulletproof?

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Depends who you ask. If people take too much for what their body thinks is suitable, it can take defensive counter-action to reduce the metabolism again. I favour a cautious approach because it seems more straight forward to slowly increase till you get to a suitable level than to overshoot and try to untangle the results and get to a suitable dose.

T4 has a long half-life.
I think Broda Barnes approach was to increment by 1/4 grain NDT if needed every month till waking temps came up to normal range. His range was 97.8 - 98.2, and he said that pushing it above this would likely lead to reduced endogenous production.
Peat has said you can increment T4 after two weeks (not sure about amount).
Peat usually recommends taking a tiny of nibble of T3 every hour or two as required - I interpret that as about 1-2mcg T3, and take the T4 containing supp before sleep to get your through the night. The healthy body produces about 3-4 mcg T3 /hour, and it has a short half-life.

If you try to push metabolism up with supps while there is a deficit of suitable fuel, that can cause stress.

I don't know if these are the factors affecting you personally - there could be other things going on too. I'm no expert, just read a bit.

You can't know if you are needing thryoid supps or needing more of them unless you are looking at some signs or symptoms. Temperature and heart-rate are the easiest to measure.
This has definitely been a 180degree turn from what I have been doing for most of the last 10 years. I would have sworn that sugar was THE enemy and that antibiotics were the worst possible thing you could do. Eat fat and do intermittent fasting 3-5x per week. Oh...and did I mention that sugar was the devil?!? It is really sad, and I am a little embarrassed that I took it all in hook, line, and sinker. I even talked some close friends and family into going "bulletproof". :(

I will do what you recommend, Tara. I will back down a little bit at a time until I find the sweet spot.

@whit Thank you for the video! I will implement that as well. I will also add more sodium and magnesium into my diet. Currently I take magnesium malate and mag oreatate.

What would you guys recommend for the bloating and the constipation? I think that I could benefit from digestive enzymes and maybe Betaine HCL. I just don't feel that I am breaking down my food.
 

whit

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I've found once sodium and mag and calcium balance out the bloat and constipation go.
Apple cider vinegar can benefit some before meals.
Bamboo shoots and or carrot salad can help some, others it can constipate.
It really depends on the individual biome.
Broth has really helped me. The glycine can be a great calming factor.
Gummies can help some too.
 

PakPik

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Hi! I'd like to mention a couple of things:
Two other things that I have had for a LONG time now are a constantly stuffy nose.
According to Peat, airway problems have their roots on intestinal inflammation/malfunction. You irritate gut membranes and chances are the irritation will get to the respiratory membranes. Bacterial endotoxin is a big culprit there. A strong gut will usually deal with the endotoxin, but a weak one can get very inflamed by it and even leaky, causing systemic inflammation/stress.

Paraphrasing from Peat's latest interview:: You can develop the IgE solely in your nasal membrane, so you can have a local reaction, but I think usually people getting this inflammation started from something happening in the intestine, triggering mast cells which are very numerous in the lining of the intestine. Those circulate to cause all membranes to get symptoms.

Another thing is, according to Haidut, DHEA can convert into estrogen even in low doses if one is under stress.
 

tara

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What would you guys recommend for the bloating and the constipation? I think that I could benefit from digestive enzymes and maybe Betaine HCL. I just don't feel that I am breaking down my food.
I think it's quite common for it to take the digestive system a bit of time to adapt to changes in diet, esp. significant ones as you have made.
Tactics that help to restore the general energy supply can help get it moving, too. The bodies production of digestive enzymes requires energy, and this is one of the many things that can suffer when metabolism is reduced.

But there may be specific tactics that might help you too. If you can identify particular foods that bother your gut especially, you may be able to replace them with something more benign.

The raw carrot salad (or cooked bamboo shoots) away from meals can help remove some of the excess microbiota and it's products. Activated charcoal is a stronger tactic for this. It may carry a little risk from persorption of small particles. It also tends to adsorb many other organic molecules, so if you want to absorb particular supplements etc, keep them away from the charcoal and don't take it oo often.

If you haven't read this one by Peat, it addresses constipation:
Cascara, energy, cancer and the FDA's laxative abuse.
 

tara

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But there may be specific tactics that might help you too. If you can identify particular foods that bother your gut especially, you may be able to replace them with something more benign.
Forum member Mittir has written some good posts on common gut irritants, if you want to hunt them out.
 
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Bulletproof?

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@whit Thank you! I will add some more magnesium. It seems that my calcium and sodium should be fine, since I'm adding a bunch of salt to my OJ and drinking lots of milk. I do eat a raw carrot every single day and I feel a warm sensation all over my body with it.

@PakPik I do feel that I may have some sort of endotoxin in my system contributing to my congestion and bloating/constipation. I am not under very much stress, but I guess my health not being optimal is a big stressor.

@tara I do take Dave Asprey's activated charcoal, but it seems to constipate me.Would penicillin or another antibiotic work better for something like this? I will hunt down Mittir's posts. Thank you all!
 

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