Antihistamine Effect Of Vitamin C

Matt C

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First off, it's not hard to find supps that aren't ascorbic acid. Calcium and Sodium Ascorbate or easily obtained, as are plenty of so called "whole food" vitamin C.

But the bigger question is, why would you need to? The studies posted in this thread both used ascorbic acid, and many of the all of the other studies and doctors that have had amazing success used plain old ascorbic acid, or one of the ascorbate forms if using it IV.

Didn't Ray Peat talk about the negative effects of ascorbic acid to Danny Roddy or one one of his KMUD guest appearances? I was also just listening to a doctor that specializes in thyroid health and he says to stay away from it. Im drinking OJ and eating certain fruits, if I can get enough C from those i'm happy since i'm already supplementing enough as it is.
 

tankasnowgod

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Didn't Ray Peat talk about the negative effects of ascorbic acid to Danny Roddy or one one of his KMUD guest appearances? I was also just listening to a doctor that specializes in thyroid health and he says to stay away from it. Im drinking OJ and eating certain fruits, if I can get enough C from those i'm happy since i'm already supplementing enough as it is.

I don't know why this bothers me so much. So many people here are afraid of Vitamin C supplements because they heard that Ray spoke one time that he didn't like them or something, but don't even know the quote. Here is the full quote with my commentary from another thread-

"
Ray has talked about all sorts of supplements being allergenic that people on this forum use all the time. I'm not exactly sure why Vitamin C always gets singled out. Here is the one quote I heard Ray Peat talking about Vitamin C that can be sourced to an interview or article- Ray Peat (starting at 18:36)-

Full context-

"ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, very good. Let’s move on to the next food subject so we can try and get through as many of these as we can before the phones start ringing. How about – gosh, I’d say, additive number two on the list, citric acid and ascorbic acid, the common ingredients that you find perhaps on juices, especially orange juice.

RAY PEAT: I started running into people who had mysterious allergies in Eugene. They tend to start with the pollen season and then continue with grass feed – field burning in the later summer. But allergies were extremely common in Eugene. But I found that some people had year -round allergies and they were consistently taking all the anti-allergy supplements, pantothenic acid, vitamin A, vitamin C and so on. And I suggested that they try stopping those for a while to see what happens. And I got essentially 100% results in curing the local allergies. And that was when I started doing a lot of nutrition counseling because everyone was so surprised to see they have been allergic to the supplements. And ascorbic acid – that caused me to investigate the history of it. In 1953, when I worked in the woods the word went around that you could cure poison oak with ascorbic acid. And I tried it myself. And in just two or three days, I completely recovered from a horrible case of poison oak and never caught it again. At that time, it was very expensive to make. And the pills on sale were only 50 mg. Several years later they developed new ways of manufacturing it. One of the processes Linus Pauling described as the lead room for making sulfuric acid which is then – the sulfuric acid is slightly contaminated with lead and other heavy metals. Then the cornstarch is processed, oxidized with this industrial sulfuric acid and ends up as ascorbic acid containing quite a bit of heavy metal. And with these new methods, I found that when people were taking 500 or 1,000 mg, they would often develop cold symptoms when they took it rather than when they didn't take it. And it apparently is irritating enough to the intestines that it causes endotoxin absorption and inflammation of the nose and throat and chest membrane. And citric acid is manufactured by very similar methods to ascorbic acid. And they really shouldn't be considered to have anything to do with the natural ascorbic acid or citric acid. The person who can get very sick on 2 mg of synthetic ascorbic acid can eat 4,000 mg of natural ascorbic acid with no reaction at all.

ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. I think that’s a very important point. You’re saying that’s actually – even though they might call it the same product, actually the industrial manufacturer of it produces a very different effect.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. One researcher dissolved a 500 mg tablet of commercial ascorbic acid in a liter of water and then put it in a machine that measures free radicals. And he said it was like a storm of free radicals. He said it’s amazing it doesn’t – it was equivalent to something like a 100 rads – no 600 rads of X-rays would take to produce that many free radicals in the water."

So, that's the full context (I bolded some parts). I don't know what study he is referring to in the last quote, but I doubt that applies to the vast majority of Ascorbic Acid that's been sold the past 50 years. If anyone can find it, please post. As far as Peat's other subjective experiences...... that has not been my personal experience with higher gram size doses of Ascorbic Acid supplements. I've taken anywhere from 3-9 grams a day recently, kicking it up to 12 grams in a couple hours to successfully fight off a cold. So, higher than the doses that Peat claims created problems, and I have felt more energetic since starting those doses.

As far as Orange Juice..... yes, OJ is great. I am drinking it myself. But it would be impractical to use OJ if you are interested in the higer gram size doses that replecate what animals make, and that Vitamin C doctors have had great success giving to their patients."

Like I said, I personally have seen benefits from the higher gram sized doses, and there are many studies on pubmed showing beneficial effects of supplemental vitamin C (including reductions in lead levels in the blood), and doctors that have had great clinical success using ascorbic acid and ascorbate.
 

Matt C

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Messages
139
Location
Australia
I don't know why this bothers me so much. So many people here are afraid of Vitamin C supplements because they heard that Ray spoke one time that he didn't like them or something, but don't even know the quote. Here is the full quote with my commentary from another thread-

"
Ray has talked about all sorts of supplements being allergenic that people on this forum use all the time. I'm not exactly sure why Vitamin C always gets singled out. Here is the one quote I heard Ray Peat talking about Vitamin C that can be sourced to an interview or article- Ray Peat (starting at 18:36)-

Full context-

"ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, very good. Let’s move on to the next food subject so we can try and get through as many of these as we can before the phones start ringing. How about – gosh, I’d say, additive number two on the list, citric acid and ascorbic acid, the common ingredients that you find perhaps on juices, especially orange juice.

RAY PEAT: I started running into people who had mysterious allergies in Eugene. They tend to start with the pollen season and then continue with grass feed – field burning in the later summer. But allergies were extremely common in Eugene. But I found that some people had year -round allergies and they were consistently taking all the anti-allergy supplements, pantothenic acid, vitamin A, vitamin C and so on. And I suggested that they try stopping those for a while to see what happens. And I got essentially 100% results in curing the local allergies. And that was when I started doing a lot of nutrition counseling because everyone was so surprised to see they have been allergic to the supplements. And ascorbic acid – that caused me to investigate the history of it. In 1953, when I worked in the woods the word went around that you could cure poison oak with ascorbic acid. And I tried it myself. And in just two or three days, I completely recovered from a horrible case of poison oak and never caught it again. At that time, it was very expensive to make. And the pills on sale were only 50 mg. Several years later they developed new ways of manufacturing it. One of the processes Linus Pauling described as the lead room for making sulfuric acid which is then – the sulfuric acid is slightly contaminated with lead and other heavy metals. Then the cornstarch is processed, oxidized with this industrial sulfuric acid and ends up as ascorbic acid containing quite a bit of heavy metal. And with these new methods, I found that when people were taking 500 or 1,000 mg, they would often develop cold symptoms when they took it rather than when they didn't take it. And it apparently is irritating enough to the intestines that it causes endotoxin absorption and inflammation of the nose and throat and chest membrane. And citric acid is manufactured by very similar methods to ascorbic acid. And they really shouldn't be considered to have anything to do with the natural ascorbic acid or citric acid. The person who can get very sick on 2 mg of synthetic ascorbic acid can eat 4,000 mg of natural ascorbic acid with no reaction at all.

ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. I think that’s a very important point. You’re saying that’s actually – even though they might call it the same product, actually the industrial manufacturer of it produces a very different effect.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. One researcher dissolved a 500 mg tablet of commercial ascorbic acid in a liter of water and then put it in a machine that measures free radicals. And he said it was like a storm of free radicals. He said it’s amazing it doesn’t – it was equivalent to something like a 100 rads – no 600 rads of X-rays would take to produce that many free radicals in the water."

So, that's the full context (I bolded some parts). I don't know what study he is referring to in the last quote, but I doubt that applies to the vast majority of Ascorbic Acid that's been sold the past 50 years. If anyone can find it, please post. As far as Peat's other subjective experiences...... that has not been my personal experience with higher gram size doses of Ascorbic Acid supplements. I've taken anywhere from 3-9 grams a day recently, kicking it up to 12 grams in a couple hours to successfully fight off a cold. So, higher than the doses that Peat claims created problems, and I have felt more energetic since starting those doses.

As far as Orange Juice..... yes, OJ is great. I am drinking it myself. But it would be impractical to use OJ if you are interested in the higer gram size doses that replecate what animals make, and that Vitamin C doctors have had great success giving to their patients."

Like I said, I personally have seen benefits from the higher gram sized doses, and there are many studies on pubmed showing beneficial effects of supplemental vitamin C (including reductions in lead levels in the blood), and doctors that have had great clinical success using ascorbic acid and ascorbate.

Thanks Man, it was the quote about the free radicals that deterred me plus another doctor by the name of Michael Johnson who speaks about thyroid health always condenming ascorbic acid.

I drink OJ and buy organic oranges and kiwis. I know guava has more vitamin c than those but i can't find them easily. I think i'll do some self experimintation with AA and see how i feel. I have organic zinc supp from a reputable brand and it has AA in it so it shouldn't be all bad.
 

equipoise

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I will try calcium ascorbate as an anti-histamine regimen now. It's spring coming on, pollen allergy is making me suffer horribly.
Cypro is a big no-no, I don't like the way I feel on it at all!
 

Motif

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I will try calcium ascorbate as an anti-histamine regimen now. It's spring coming on, pollen allergy is making me suffer horribly.
Cypro is a big no-no, I don't like the way I feel on it at all!
Success yet ?


————————————

What do I need to watch out for when taking vitamin c supplements ? Does it block other nutrients from getting absorbed or is causing other deficiencies?
 

equipoise

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Success yet ?


————————————

What do I need to watch out for when taking vitamin c supplements ? Does it block other nutrients from getting absorbed or is causing other deficiencies?
I got sick and it might be vitamin C supplementation! As for reducing allergy symptoms, jack sh1t. Best bet to watch out for endotoxin
 

Motif

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I got sick and it might be vitamin C supplementation! As for reducing allergy symptoms, jack sh1t. Best bet to watch out for endotoxin
How do you think it made you sick and what kind of C and how much ?
 

equipoise

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How do you think it made you sick and what kind of C and how much ?

it was this one. supposedly a good clean source.
anyways I think I've heard Ray say vit C supplementation might even increase a chance of catching a cold
 

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