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Antibiotics Treat Heart Disease- Restore Old Blood Vessel's Health

Discussion in 'Digestion, Gut Flora' started by Mauritio, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    Fountain of youth for heart health may lie in the gut: Age-related changes to microbiome fuel vascular decline, new study shows

    For the study, published in the Journal of Physiology, researchers gave young mice and old mice broad-spectrum antibiotics to kill off the majority of bacteria living in their gut, aka their gut microbiome. Then they assessed the health of their vascular endothelium (the inner lining of their blood vessels) and the stiffness of their large arteries.

    "When you suppressed the microbiome of the old mice, their vascular health was restored to that of young mice," said senior author and professor Doug Seals, director of the Integrative Physiology of Aging Laboratory. "This suggests there is something about those microorganisms that is causing vascular dysfunction.

    Maybe someone with access can see which antibiotics and what dosage they used.
     
  2. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    What is the minority that's not killed? Is it a microcosm of the microbiome that existed, or is it a special class of bacteria that survived? If it's the former, does this mean that the gut is simply overpopulated and just trimming down the population significantly leaves the gut still no worse than before? An overpopulated microbiome is just like Elon Musk trying to colonize Mars because earth is overpopulated?

    While this is nothing new as Ray Peat and haidut and Danny Roddy has spoken well of a clean gut, I don't think I'm alone in being unconvinced of this. But it may be time for me to be open to this idea. But instead of using pharma antibiotics, I'd like to use colloidal silver or copper acetate instead. I just have to figure out the dosage and duration of treatment.
     
  3. OP
    Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    I think they found a lot of pro-inflammatory strains in their guts ,which the antibiotics killed . And this might be the heart protective mechanism.
     
  4. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    But a broad-spectrum antibiotic won't be selective in what it kills. It would have killed plenty of pro-inflammatory strains, just as it would kill supposedly beneficial strains. And I don't quite understand how eradicating much of the microbiome could result in improving the endothelial health of the blood vessels. Did they elaborate? Was plaque removed? If so, it must mean that for plaque to stay in place, it has to rely on a continual supply of gut bacteria permeating the gut lining to the vascular system. To lose this supply because the gut was sanitized meant the supply line to maintain the plaque had been broken, and without reinforcement, much like a castle in siege, the plaque would crumble. If this were the case, I'd waste no time getting started with sanitizing my gut.

    I could see this benefiting all the organs where arterioles are stuffed with crud. In my case, my kidneys glomerular arterioles could be renewed and my glomerular filtration rate could be boosted.
     
  5. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    It may be due to anti inflammatory effects rather than gut effects.
     
  6. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    So you're saying that it could be a systemic anti-inflammatory effect more than it is the effect of the gut being sterilized?
     
  7. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I think so.
     
  8. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I take what Dr. Peat calls empirical doses of antibiotics a couple of times a week. Seems like it’s helpful. I can’t tell you anything specific but I seem to be functioning well doing this. Maybe 20 mg doxycycline.
     
  9. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I'll have to look up the various OTC antibiotics available. I know doxycycline is available OTC so I'll have to try that.

    It's interesting the study mention TMAO as a metabolite produced by some bacteria. It gets through the gut barrier into blood and it "causes inflammation and oxidative stresses and damages tissue" It says "Old mice had three times as much TMAO (trimethylamine N-oxide), a metabolite shown in previous studies to be linked to increased risk of atherosclerosis, heart attack and stroke."

    "They're also studying a compound called dimethyl butanol, found in some olive oils, vinegars and red wines, which blocks the bacterial enzyme required to produce TMAO. Ultimately, it could be developed into a dietary supplement." This may be why one time I drank red wine and the next day my blood pressure went down. It could be the dimethyl butanol reducing TMAO. I'm glad to see a possible explanation for why the red wine lowered my blood pressure that time.
     
  10. Peater Piper

    Peater Piper Member

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    Same. Results seem so mixed with antibiotics. Some people have miraculous results, others seem to have nothing but trouble with them (I fall in this group). Really hit-or-miss, same for probiotics. They're both kind of a shot in the dark, with antibiotics especially having the potential to cause serious long-term issues in certain individuals.

    While I have serious concerns about high dose, broad spectrum antibiotics, subantimicrobial doses of tetracyclines have piqued my interest.
     
  11. RisingSun

    RisingSun Member

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    I don’t believe eradicating the gut microbiome is the solution to anything.

    I do believe that repopulating the good bacteria strains that originally exist within the infant is the way.

    Through fecal matter transplants from healthy kids donors
     
  12. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    Lapacho-Tea comes to mind.
    It carries some quinones that are structurally similar to tetracycline antibiotics.

    It is know to posses potent antibacterial (and -viral, mycotic)
    properties.

    It enhances NAD/NADH+ - ratio

    An ancient antiage/pro-Health beverage.

    So while a clean-sweep solution to aged, impaired microbiome - be it eradication or readjustment of strains, seems impractical maybe just drinking some of theses teas like and especially lapacho are strong beneficial modulators in the long run.
    You won’t get immortal from it, but it feasibly might contribute to more healthy aging
     
  13. vulture

    vulture Member

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    Only way I cured my IBS-D years ago was garlic enemas and ate yogurt.
    It’s being more than 3 years, maybe 5, without diarrheas.
     
  14. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I agree with your thinking, but I don't believe the microbiome is that easy to eradicate, even with strong antibiotics. There will be survivors, and it will still be a homeostatic balance of the microbiome that survives. And what survives will still do a good job. From say 100 percent, if about 10 percent, or even 5, that will be good enough. They are a good thing, but too much of a good thing isn't good. In this case, too much would have anti-inflammatory effects.
     
  15. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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  16. andrewkfletcher

    andrewkfletcher Member

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    Freshly squeezed lime in water is very effective in ridding pathogens from the digestive tract.
     
  17. OP
    Mauritio

    Mauritio Member

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    Do you have any experience with that, how did it go ?
     
  18. lexis

    lexis Member

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  19. andrewkfletcher

    andrewkfletcher Member

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    Been using it for around 15 years and have had food poisoning a few times. It has never failed to eliminate it within a couple of days. I have even used it with my dogs and works a treat to resolve diarrhea.
    It's also worth remembering why us Brits are called limey's. Protection from cholera by adding lime juice to food - results from community and laboratory studies in Guinea-Bissau, West Africa. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  20. andrewkfletcher

    andrewkfletcher Member

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    EmeraldInsight
    Effect of lemon juice on the survival of Salmonella Enteritidis and Escherichia coli in cig kofte (raw meatball)
     
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