Max.
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Can you share your experiences reducing wrinkles? What worked for you? Diet, exercises, creams, etc?
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Max.
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Bump!
Beastmode
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What crap to keep out our systems is pretty obvious on this forum, however, most underestimate what quality sleep over time can do for everything....including skin improvement.
Last edited:
Repas du soir
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Aren't wrinkles mostly cortisol-driven? Because cortisol's function is to make energy when you don't have enough energy (food/carbs/sugar), or when you suddenly need a lot of energy that food can't provide, such as in a very stressful situation. Cortisol makes energy by breaking down tissues and organs to increase bloodsugar, and one of the organs it breaks down is the skin.
So I think if you have a high-carb diet with sugar and fructose, and you don't let your bloodsugar drop and cortisol rise (being hungry), you'll prevent cortisol from breaking down your skin and other things for energy. Lack of sleep is another thing that is known to cause wrinkles, and the reason is probably because a lack of sleep increases cortisol.
I have also heard some people say regular meditation makes you look younger, maybe because it decreases cortisol chronically.
So I think if you have a high-carb diet with sugar and fructose, and you don't let your bloodsugar drop and cortisol rise (being hungry), you'll prevent cortisol from breaking down your skin and other things for energy. Lack of sleep is another thing that is known to cause wrinkles, and the reason is probably because a lack of sleep increases cortisol.
I have also heard some people say regular meditation makes you look younger, maybe because it decreases cortisol chronically.
postman
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Fruitarians age horribly so obviously there is more to it than just keeping carb intake high. Although I do agree it's a good thing to eat plenty of carbs.
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A few things that come to mind are red light, collagen, vit C, copper and hormones, such as DHEA, preg, prog, test and thyroid.
A high milk diet helped my skin stay nice and oily (not acne) and wrinkless.
A high milk diet helped my skin stay nice and oily (not acne) and wrinkless.
Definitely sugar is #1 for wrinkle reduction/prevention. I was on the paleo diet
before finding Dr. Peat. In a few months on the paleo diet, a faint line on my forehead
that was visible only if I really scrunched my forehead became deeper and was permanently there
all day with more faint lines developing above and below it. I thought, wait a minute, arent
wrinkles supposed to creep up on you over time, years, not months.
Because of other problems, I discovered Dr Peat and after starting a high sugar diet, the
line went back to being faint and only visible if I really scrunch my forehead.
I call this phenomenon SSS or sugar saves skin.
before finding Dr. Peat. In a few months on the paleo diet, a faint line on my forehead
that was visible only if I really scrunched my forehead became deeper and was permanently there
all day with more faint lines developing above and below it. I thought, wait a minute, arent
wrinkles supposed to creep up on you over time, years, not months.
Because of other problems, I discovered Dr Peat and after starting a high sugar diet, the
line went back to being faint and only visible if I really scrunch my forehead.
I call this phenomenon SSS or sugar saves skin.
No, not collagen. This is a misconception. Older people have more
collagen in their skin than younger people. Dr. Peat talks about this in one of his
articles or interviews, I will have to find it.
Elastic fibers is what makes the skin look young. As people age, the collagen increases
and replaces the elastic fibers.
Wrinkles are lines in skin where increased collagen has displaced the elastic fibers so the
skin is unable to bounce back to smoothness.
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Proper hydration and elasticity is key for having a good skin, true, and the hormones are mostly involved in that area.
But collagen supplementation improves skin quality.
A meta-analysis from 2019: Oral Collagen Supplementation: A Systematic Review of Dermatological Applications - PubMed - NCBI
"FINDINGS: Eleven studies with a total of 805 patients were included for review. Eight studies used collagen hydrolysate, 2.5g/d to 10g/d, for 8 to 24 weeks, for the treatment of pressure ulcers, xerosis, skin aging, and cellulite. Two studies used collagen tripeptide, 3g/d for 4 to 12 weeks, with notable improvement in skin elasticity and hydration. Lastly, one study using collagen dipeptide suggested anti-aging efficacy is proportionate to collagen dipeptide content.
CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE: Preliminary results are promising for the short and long-term use of oral collagen supplements for wound healing and skin aging. Oral collagen supplements also increase skin elasticity, hydration, and dermal collagen density. Collagen supplementation is generally safe with no reported adverse events. Further studies are needed to elucidate medical use in skin barrier diseases such as atopic dermatitis and to determine optimal dosing regimens."
morgan#1
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This is from: Osteoporosis, aging, tissue renewal, and product science
Ray Peat
“In youth, the mineralization of the collagen framework is slightly lower than in maturity, and the bones are more flexible. With aging, the mineralization increases progressively, and the proportion of collagen decreases slightly, and the bones become increasingly brittle. (Rogers, et al., 1952; Mbuyi-Muamba, et al., 1987).
Collagen is a major part of the extracellular substance everywhere in the body, and its concentration increases with aging in the non-calcified tissues. There is considerable renewal and modification of collagen, as new molecules are formed and old molecules broken down, but its average structure changes with aging, becomes less soluble and more rigid, as the result of chemical cross-links formed between molecules. These cross-links are involved in regulating the differentiation of bone cells (Turecek, et al., 2008). Recently (August 2, 2011), Deasey et al., have published evidence showing that cross-linking is required for bone mineralization (2011).
The outstanding physical-chemical property of bone is that it is a reservoir-buffer of carbon dioxide, able to bind huge amounts of the gas into its structure.
Around 1950, Fritz Verzar began studying the changes of collagen that occur with aging, and his work led to the "collagen theory of aging." He showed that older, stiffer, less elastic tendons have a higher "melting" or contracting temperature than young tendons. (This effect is responsible for the curling of a piece of meat when it is frying.)
Verzar and his colleagues investigated the effects of hormonal treatments on the aging of rat collagen, especially in their tail tendons. They found that estrogen treatment increased the stiffness and the melting temperature of collagenous tissues. While estrogen increased the cross-linking with aging, removing the pituitary gland was found to retard the aging.
Later, the cross-linking enzymes transglutaminase and lysyl oxidase, which are induced by estrogen, were found to be a major factor in the cross-linking of collagen and other molecules.
When estrogen was found to age the connective tissues, it was assumed that continual breeding during an animal's life-time, greatly increasing the total exposure of the tissues to estrogen, would increase the aged rigidity of the connective tissues, but these animals were found to have less rigid tissues. During pregnancy other hormones, especially progesterone, were also increased, and it was suggested that this reversed the effects of aging and estrogen. Since most people had believed that frequent pregnancies would cause a woman to age more rapidly, a large survey of records was done, to compare the longevity of women with the number of pregnancies. It was found, in the very extensive Hungarian records, that life-span was increased in proportion to the number of pregnancies.
Despite these very interesting results in the 1950s and 1960s, the growing influence of the estrogen industry changed the direction of aging research, favoring the belief that decreasing estrogen accelerated the deterioration of tissues in aging, and the popularity of Denham Harman's "free radical theory of aging" led many people to assume that random reactions produced by lipid peroxidation were responsible for most of the cross-linking, and that theory was gradually replaced by the "glycation" theory of aging, in which sugar molecules break down and form the cross-links, by random, non-enzymic processes. Estrogen's role in aging was completely by-passed.
The meat industry is interested in reducing the toughness of meat, by influencing the nature of the collagen in muscle. Castrated animals were found to produce meat that was tenderer than that of intact males. When castrated animals were treated with testosterone, the amount of collagen was increased, making the meat tougher. But when dihydrotestoserone, which can't be converted to estrogen was used, the meat didn't become tough. Treatment with estrogen produced the same increase of collagen as treatment with testosterone, showing that testosterone's effect was mainly the result of its conversion to estrogen (Miller, et al., 1990).
In the 1960s and '70s the estrogen industry was looking for ways to build on the knowledge that in puberty estrogen is responsible for accelerating the calcification of the growth plate at the ends of the long bones, and to find a rationale for selling estrogen to all women concerned with the problems of aging. As bone metabolism was investigated, two kinds of cell were found to be active in constantly remodeling the bone structure: Osteoclasts (breaking it down), and osteoblasts (building new bone). Estrogen was found to slow the actions of the osteoclasts, so the idea that it would delay osteoporosis became the basis for a huge new marketing campaign. Slowing bone metabolism became the focus. Although estrogen was known to increase prolactin, and prolactin was known to accelerate bone loss, nearly all publications began to focus on substances in the blood or urine that corresponded to the rate of bone turnover, with the implication that increasing bone turnover would correspond to a net loss of bone.”
And then he goes on to say that: “Aging, estrogen, cortisol, and a variety of stresses, including radiation and lipid peroxidation, chemically alter collagen, producing cross-links that increase its rigidity, and affect the way it binds minerals. The cross-linking enzymes induced by estrogen are involved in the normal maturation of bone collagen, and at puberty when estrogen increases, bone growth is slowed, as the cross-linking and mineralization are accelerated. With aging and the accumulation of heavy metals and polyunsaturated fats, random oxidative processes increase the cross-linking. In bones, the relatively large masses of cartilage absorb oxygen and nutrients slowly, so internally the amount of oxygen is very limited, about 1/5 as much as at the surface, and this low oxygen tension is an important factor in regulating growth, differentiation, cross-linking, and calcification, maintaining bone integrity. But in blood vessels the connective tissues are abundantly supplied with oxygen and nutrients; this is normally a factor regulating the production of collagen and its cross-linking, and preventing calcification.
When the factors promoting collagen synthesis and maturation are increased systemically, with aging and stress, the excess cross-linking slows the biological renewal process in bones, but in blood vessels the same processes creating excess cross-linking initiate a calcification process, involving the various factors that in youth are responsible for normal maturation of bone.”
It seems that collagen should be understood in the context of the individual. Youth, age, healthy, non-healthy, estrogen, inflammation, co2, etc. and I gather there are different “forms” performing different tasks.
I’m a plus one for Hans take on hormones and how important and necessary they are to us. Especially for aging, and wrinkles that come along with. Also, muscles and their depletion. I believe that hormones (the right ones, in proper dosage) can turn back time.
Ray Peat
“In youth, the mineralization of the collagen framework is slightly lower than in maturity, and the bones are more flexible. With aging, the mineralization increases progressively, and the proportion of collagen decreases slightly, and the bones become increasingly brittle. (Rogers, et al., 1952; Mbuyi-Muamba, et al., 1987).
Collagen is a major part of the extracellular substance everywhere in the body, and its concentration increases with aging in the non-calcified tissues. There is considerable renewal and modification of collagen, as new molecules are formed and old molecules broken down, but its average structure changes with aging, becomes less soluble and more rigid, as the result of chemical cross-links formed between molecules. These cross-links are involved in regulating the differentiation of bone cells (Turecek, et al., 2008). Recently (August 2, 2011), Deasey et al., have published evidence showing that cross-linking is required for bone mineralization (2011).
The outstanding physical-chemical property of bone is that it is a reservoir-buffer of carbon dioxide, able to bind huge amounts of the gas into its structure.
Around 1950, Fritz Verzar began studying the changes of collagen that occur with aging, and his work led to the "collagen theory of aging." He showed that older, stiffer, less elastic tendons have a higher "melting" or contracting temperature than young tendons. (This effect is responsible for the curling of a piece of meat when it is frying.)
Verzar and his colleagues investigated the effects of hormonal treatments on the aging of rat collagen, especially in their tail tendons. They found that estrogen treatment increased the stiffness and the melting temperature of collagenous tissues. While estrogen increased the cross-linking with aging, removing the pituitary gland was found to retard the aging.
Later, the cross-linking enzymes transglutaminase and lysyl oxidase, which are induced by estrogen, were found to be a major factor in the cross-linking of collagen and other molecules.
When estrogen was found to age the connective tissues, it was assumed that continual breeding during an animal's life-time, greatly increasing the total exposure of the tissues to estrogen, would increase the aged rigidity of the connective tissues, but these animals were found to have less rigid tissues. During pregnancy other hormones, especially progesterone, were also increased, and it was suggested that this reversed the effects of aging and estrogen. Since most people had believed that frequent pregnancies would cause a woman to age more rapidly, a large survey of records was done, to compare the longevity of women with the number of pregnancies. It was found, in the very extensive Hungarian records, that life-span was increased in proportion to the number of pregnancies.
Despite these very interesting results in the 1950s and 1960s, the growing influence of the estrogen industry changed the direction of aging research, favoring the belief that decreasing estrogen accelerated the deterioration of tissues in aging, and the popularity of Denham Harman's "free radical theory of aging" led many people to assume that random reactions produced by lipid peroxidation were responsible for most of the cross-linking, and that theory was gradually replaced by the "glycation" theory of aging, in which sugar molecules break down and form the cross-links, by random, non-enzymic processes. Estrogen's role in aging was completely by-passed.
The meat industry is interested in reducing the toughness of meat, by influencing the nature of the collagen in muscle. Castrated animals were found to produce meat that was tenderer than that of intact males. When castrated animals were treated with testosterone, the amount of collagen was increased, making the meat tougher. But when dihydrotestoserone, which can't be converted to estrogen was used, the meat didn't become tough. Treatment with estrogen produced the same increase of collagen as treatment with testosterone, showing that testosterone's effect was mainly the result of its conversion to estrogen (Miller, et al., 1990).
In the 1960s and '70s the estrogen industry was looking for ways to build on the knowledge that in puberty estrogen is responsible for accelerating the calcification of the growth plate at the ends of the long bones, and to find a rationale for selling estrogen to all women concerned with the problems of aging. As bone metabolism was investigated, two kinds of cell were found to be active in constantly remodeling the bone structure: Osteoclasts (breaking it down), and osteoblasts (building new bone). Estrogen was found to slow the actions of the osteoclasts, so the idea that it would delay osteoporosis became the basis for a huge new marketing campaign. Slowing bone metabolism became the focus. Although estrogen was known to increase prolactin, and prolactin was known to accelerate bone loss, nearly all publications began to focus on substances in the blood or urine that corresponded to the rate of bone turnover, with the implication that increasing bone turnover would correspond to a net loss of bone.”
And then he goes on to say that: “Aging, estrogen, cortisol, and a variety of stresses, including radiation and lipid peroxidation, chemically alter collagen, producing cross-links that increase its rigidity, and affect the way it binds minerals. The cross-linking enzymes induced by estrogen are involved in the normal maturation of bone collagen, and at puberty when estrogen increases, bone growth is slowed, as the cross-linking and mineralization are accelerated. With aging and the accumulation of heavy metals and polyunsaturated fats, random oxidative processes increase the cross-linking. In bones, the relatively large masses of cartilage absorb oxygen and nutrients slowly, so internally the amount of oxygen is very limited, about 1/5 as much as at the surface, and this low oxygen tension is an important factor in regulating growth, differentiation, cross-linking, and calcification, maintaining bone integrity. But in blood vessels the connective tissues are abundantly supplied with oxygen and nutrients; this is normally a factor regulating the production of collagen and its cross-linking, and preventing calcification.
When the factors promoting collagen synthesis and maturation are increased systemically, with aging and stress, the excess cross-linking slows the biological renewal process in bones, but in blood vessels the same processes creating excess cross-linking initiate a calcification process, involving the various factors that in youth are responsible for normal maturation of bone.”
It seems that collagen should be understood in the context of the individual. Youth, age, healthy, non-healthy, estrogen, inflammation, co2, etc. and I gather there are different “forms” performing different tasks.
I’m a plus one for Hans take on hormones and how important and necessary they are to us. Especially for aging, and wrinkles that come along with. Also, muscles and their depletion. I believe that hormones (the right ones, in proper dosage) can turn back time.
Last edited:
Yeah, carbs play a major role in regulating cortisol, but that is within the context of already having sufficient nutrients to support carb and overall metabolism, like zinc, copper, niacin, protein, etc. Fruitarians eat a lot of carbs, but they lack a lot of the nutrients and co-factors needed, like sufficient zinc, protein, etc. With the high copper intake and low zinc, along with typical masturbation/sex (lose zinc via ejaculation), and low protein, they’re probably wasting a lot of muscle and are very low in Zinc. Zinc is very important to cortisol regulation.
What supplement stack were you taking when topical iodine caused scars to flake off like dandruff?
OP
Max.
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- Feb 22, 2017
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- 80
Thanks everyone to trying to colaborate with this discussion.
What do you guys thinking about AGEs and glycation from carbs and the correlation with wrinkles?
And about iron, PUFA etc? Anyone notice difference reducing this and the appearence of skin?
No one here use retinol, vitamin c serum, sunscreen and other creams?
What do you guys thinking about AGEs and glycation from carbs and the correlation with wrinkles?
And about iron, PUFA etc? Anyone notice difference reducing this and the appearence of skin?
No one here use retinol, vitamin c serum, sunscreen and other creams?
same...a good sun kissed face with some sun wrinkles is definitely the move. Sunken eyes/ the tired look is what should be avoided, and sugar/protein should help avoid that
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None because I didn't have scars on my face so I didn't use it on my face. :)
I guess just keeping that area hydrated should help again scabs. Also, if you're getting scabs, then your iodine concentration might be too much and is damaging the skin.
You weren't taking any supplements? I have scars all over. Just thought to ask about the stack. The scar didn't turn to a scab in your case? How often did you apply? How many days until it went away?
postman
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I've been taking a lot of aspirin for the last 10 days or so, it seems to be very good for the skin. I would avoid retinol and sunscreen and most other commercially sold skin care products as well, most of them are full of all kinds of crap.
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The iodine did cause my scar to form hard skin on top of it which I scratched off but it wasn't excessive skin or anything.
I just added 1 drop per scar. I remember now, I used some honey on the scar to keep it hydrated.
collagen is very effective. not type 1 or type 2, i prefer elastin collagen for supplement. I give a collagen rich meal video below. (turkish trotting soup)
details:
Materials
1 lamb
500 grams tripe
3 pieces of trotters
2 tablespoons flour
2 cloves of garlic
2 tablespoons of vinegar
Chili Peppers
Salt
Preparation of
Soak for 5 hours to thoroughly clean the kelley. In this time, drain the water 3 times.
Put the pressure on the pressure cooker in the pressure cooker. Add 1 liter of water. Cover and cook for 25 minutes. When the kelle is cooked, take it out of the pot and get a little cold. Take the boiling water well and set aside.
Thoroughly wash and clean the rumen. Clean the traps by smoking on the flame. Put them all in a pressure cooker. Add enough water to cover them and close the lid and cook for 30 minutes. When the tripe and truffles are thoroughly cooked, remove the whistle from the whistle and drain the remaining water and set aside. Cut the cups into cubes, and cut off the meat from the bone with the fork just like on the head.
To prepare the soup, first cook 2 tablespoons of flour in a deep saucepan. Gradually add the rumen and kelleal water you take aside. Mix well while adding water to prevent flour flour. Before the water starts to boil, add the butter, the rumen and the pieces to the pot.
After boiling, add vinegar, garlic, chili and salt, and stir to a boil. Your soup is ready.
details:
Materials
1 lamb
500 grams tripe
3 pieces of trotters
2 tablespoons flour
2 cloves of garlic
2 tablespoons of vinegar
Chili Peppers
Salt
Preparation of
Soak for 5 hours to thoroughly clean the kelley. In this time, drain the water 3 times.
Put the pressure on the pressure cooker in the pressure cooker. Add 1 liter of water. Cover and cook for 25 minutes. When the kelle is cooked, take it out of the pot and get a little cold. Take the boiling water well and set aside.
Thoroughly wash and clean the rumen. Clean the traps by smoking on the flame. Put them all in a pressure cooker. Add enough water to cover them and close the lid and cook for 30 minutes. When the tripe and truffles are thoroughly cooked, remove the whistle from the whistle and drain the remaining water and set aside. Cut the cups into cubes, and cut off the meat from the bone with the fork just like on the head.
To prepare the soup, first cook 2 tablespoons of flour in a deep saucepan. Gradually add the rumen and kelleal water you take aside. Mix well while adding water to prevent flour flour. Before the water starts to boil, add the butter, the rumen and the pieces to the pot.
After boiling, add vinegar, garlic, chili and salt, and stir to a boil. Your soup is ready.
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