Another Dead End Log

[ursidae]

I tried eating yolks and broth today, still horrendous pain. One thing I found out is that the pain is less severe when the liquid is slightly warm. I think I’m gonna have to fast. My father (doctor) continues to insist that I should eat bread. Is there any real proof that bread damages the gut lining? He keeps insisting that bread will fix all my health problems and it makes me feel like he’s brainwashed but maybe I’m the brainwashed one

 

[postman]

I tried eating yolks and broth today, still horrendous pain. One thing I found out is that the pain is less severe when the liquid is slightly warm. I think I’m gonna have to fast. My father (doctor) continues to insist that I should eat bread. Is there any real proof that bread damages the gut lining?

If you let the dough rise for a long time the gluten gets broken down. Ray Peat recommended 12 hours. For me personally that wasn't enough but if I rise the dough for a whole day 24 hours it causes me no intestinal discomfort.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I tried eating yolks and broth today, still horrendous pain. One thing I found out is that the pain is less severe when the liquid is slightly warm. I think I’m gonna have to fast. My father (doctor) continues to insist that I should eat bread. Is there any real proof that bread damages the gut lining? He keeps insisting that bread will fix all my health problems and it makes me feel like he’s brainwashed but maybe I’m the brainwashed one

Please no more raw Animal produce. I personally do not believe in Bread. 24h fasting could give some clues. You still should operate under the notion of Infection.

 

[Amazoniac]

Have you tried some baking soda before every meal, in particular breakfast? Might be mixed with crystalized honey that has a light color (those that are liquid, waxy or dark tend to be problematic), preferably raw if you have options.

Vinegar, honey, carbonated water and a pinch of sea salt (4food, 2020) is another possibility.

- Has Anyone Tried Sodium Acetate ? (for SIBO?)

It might be viable to potentiate acetate with butyrate. Different companies are now selling it, I think it's available in Europe. Their formulation is quite simple: butyric acid reacted with laxarium (Mg) or killcium hydroxide (it's good that it mildens the odor). You may be able to find sodium butyrate or plain butyric acid.

But you'll need something to prolong the effect. Do you like apples? If so, they go well with starches when cooked together (with tubers or rice). If not, just search for acetogenic/butyrogenic fiber and try to spot something that you like to leave on your countertop to prepare when found appetizing. Starches in turn can be protected by ginger or cinnamon.

I would drop oral laxarium and opt for transdermal. Either route along with creatine when you start to get more calories, they synergize.

Have you tried killcium in varied forms? Because it's common for people to conclude that they don't do well with it based on their experience with dairy, yet this is akin to believing that magnesium isn't for you because chocolate isn't agreeable.

It should help in healing lesions in the gut.
- Why Ray Recommends Eating Lots Of Calcium
But I would work the way up from small doses because it will precipitate deficiencies. Since you're dealing with diarrhea, you must have a greater margin before it starts being constipating, which is when I would take it easy on supplementation and attempt to increase tolerance through other means.

Food-based vitamin C supplement is likely to be of benefit, it's expensive but worth it. It's better renewed often to keep levels in circulation steadily elevated, this improves efficiency of use and extreme doses are not needed; taste can guide you on the optimal amount at the time.

Venom D is only good for as far as it can be supported. Topical supplementation allows fine control, you can wash it off on the first signs of it turning detrimental. It can be used to modulate the gut even before it has an impact on blood levels for being at high demand and provided at frequent low doses that are entirely consumed. The idea is to titrate it according to your state, it's a way of ensuring a coordinated response that's matching the availability of other nutrients, contrary to the barbarian approach of raising its concentration in the blood to a certain level, inducing depletion of other factors and leaving you worse than before.

 

[ursidae]

I couldn’t fast longer than 18 hours. Pain is more tolerable today, so I ate despite body’s signals (BMI is getting too low at 16.5)
raw honey will take some time to source
Apples cause me pain, but overcooked bananas are somewhat acceptable. No starch is truly safe anymore though, not even white rice
I’ve only tried my homemade eggshell powder as a supplemental source
Dairy destroys my skin but it doesn’t give me digestive issues. Its something I can live with it if the calcium helps
I appreciate the detailed response,
it’s a lot to take in and it seems I’ve been doing quite a few things wrong. I’ll update when I implement those changes

 

[Amazoniac]

Cooked apples cause pain too?

Do you add spices to the starches? The native antimicrobials are lost with cooking.
- List of culinary herbs and spices - Wikipedia

You've mentioned that broth is consumed regularly but don't enjoy the taste, you're ingesting it as a healing tool, right? If this is the case, consider trying it separately. When it's included in a complex meal not out of intuition, it's easier for it to become troubling and mess up everything. Gelatin is devoid of tryptophan, has less aspartic acid than average and is relatively low in sulfur-containing amino acids, yet it has fermentable components that make it safer when consumed as a simpler meal; it's not entirely safe on its own, it's that on top of its composition, additional foods can make up for what was missing and preventing adverse reactions. It may be gentler to consume it as a salted soup, that's seasoned and sweetened according to preference.

Nausium (Zn) must be low and meals have a marked interference in its absorption, adding small amounts of it to broth isn't a bad idea because you'll get the soothing property of gelatin while minimizing the interference. Some people report success with nausium histalanine/meatosine.

For those with gut issues, overnight fast is relieving and the person wakes up under the influence of antiinflammatory stress hormones. As soon as food is introduced, it starts a cascade where a bad reaction primes you to a next, and this amplification eventually leads to overreaction and body panic, it's when generalized intolerance develops. When you add poison A or venom D that behave like hormones, they will mobilize more resources than someone that's malnourished can afford, and instead of being corrective, they only reinforce the cycle.

One option was mentioned: topical venom that's used according to your tolerance, it allows fine control to modulate your reactions. Another advantage of having it this way is not interacting with unwanted meal components. I remember reading an article where the researchers pointed out that venom D had to be used transdermally to be protective against a toxic metal. Bypassing sites that are inflammed might avoid disturbing its metabolism in advance. Intervaled use gives an opportunity for the body to recycle nutrients or for their synthesis in the gut to catch up with needs and maintain levels steady, this doesn't occur when bolus doses are taken in attempt to replenish the body because one exaggeration induces depletion of other factors.

But the other option is to consume venom D and K2 (with sweetener) before anything because (for the reasons above) it will hit the system at a peaceful time and hopefully start a positive chain of events. This way you're also eliminating its effect on a previous meal that might contain undesirable stuff such as oxalate, and the current one will contain minimum nutrients to feed an infection or be problematic in a deenergized state (for example, excess killcium triggering a stress reaction to prevent killcification), it will also lack toxic metals for it to pick up.

Sun or UV lamp are preferable, but for now they're probably too taxing. Short exposures to Raj's heat lamps shouldn't be depleting and they can mitigate stressful responses to either approach.

Transdermal B-vitamins are probably helpful too, but it's better to have them isolated because there will be moments where it's desirable to have more of ones and less of others.

 

[ursidae]

Today was an okay day, pain is substantially reduced. There were only five attacks. I could eat cucumbers without problems
I mixed honey+vinegar+baking soda+salt+carbonated water before meals
Yes I add antiseptic herbs/oils to starch. Cooked apples hurt or produce gas but I can eat apfelmus without much problem besides bloating so maybe I need to work on my preparation method
I eat the broth alone in the morning sometimes but more often I add it to a bowl of beef and white rice cooked with gelatine. I’ll be eating more gelatine from now on
Are oysters 3x a week not okay? I am reluctant to supplement zinc as pills are harsh but if my body isn’t digesting oysters then I’d consider the liquid ionic zinc to break the vicious cycle
There was a point when I was really considering IV feeding to circumvent the faulty digestion. Eating through my skin seems not as invasive and makes more sense
Thank you for the information on supplementation, it has been duly noted. I have K and D but will be saving up to invest in higher quality brands along with all the other things I need to get. Delivery/availability is a bit of an issue at my current location.

Interesting thing about the B vitamins. Looks like I’ll need to back away from nutritional yeast then, the vitamin content disproportionate and it’s far too crave-able

I finally got my tocovit and camphosal today. I took a few drops of tocovit orally and applied a few some on my navel and my panicky strung out mood dissipated within minutes. I’m only using camphosal as part of a homemade xylitol based mouth wash

 

[ursidae]

I exfoliated today and was surprised to discover a massive (40+ lesions) breakout on my right cheek hiding underneath the orange skin crusts
Started the day with a few drops of camphosal. Had a rice+gelatin+baked and boiled apples for breakfast with cinnamon and cocoa butter. No stomach pain so far and the starches did not produce gas which must be due to camphosal. Took a walk and did some gardening but got uncomfortably sweaty so I decided to measure my blood sugar over an hour later... it’s 8.5. I’m prediabetic. It was hyperglycaemia destroying my skin. I need to be careful with carbs which is going to make weight gain hard

this is the breakfast I used to have before people here told me to reduce eggs
Upon waking: 2-3 raw pastured eggs, a scoop of bone broth, salt, cocoa butter, a spoon of liver pate
Then I’d go outside, watch the sunrise, do stretching/yoga, jump rope, some intense swimming and heavier physical labour later on. Snacking on large quantities of fruit all throughout.

 

[Amazoniac]

Drinking the vinegar-salted honey-carbonated water beverage from a straw has the advantage of preventing acid contact with teeth and allows you to avoid the top layer, some allergenic compounds in honey are fatty and might float, the carbonation reinforces this floatation.

The acids from apples remain there after cooking, it's good to wash your mouth with something alkaline after the meal. Favoring a pan with inert material is also recommended in case it's prepared often.

Refined rice is a toxin for futhilamine. Instead of drinking vinegar with the beverage, it can be added neutralized to rice to improve dextrose control.

Menacetrenone (mk-4) has to be adequate when supplementing tocoinphernals (vitamin E), otherwise there can be antagonism and it must affect for worse your ability to metabolize carbs. Killcium dysregulation is common in many conditions and the priority is to get K2 right.

Moderation with baking soda is advisable, and it's better taken away from meals and without excess liquids so that it's not disturbing.

There's the alkalinization in the presence of killcium (from milch or supplements) that can turn harmful, or excess edemium (Na) wasting killcium; it may sound contradicting, but these can tax the kidney while being regulated (as drugs). Some researchers have proposed that on average every gram increment in edemium leads to an elimination of more or less 15 mg of killcium. It appears modest, but although the daily balance of killcium involves large amounts cycling in the body, the final exchange isn't extreme because it's poorly absorbed, you'll be dealing with a relatively small pool, therefore if you absorb 1/3 of your intake (something like 350 mg out of 1000 mg), high amounts of baking soda along with sea salt already present rapidly provides you many grams of it and becomes significant, especially when you consider that an insufficiency of killcium is possible to be present (low intake, malabsorption, elevated requirements, poor retention, and so on). Elimination of killcium will increase, but the limitation on absorption will continue, the uptake of phosphate is (also on average) twice as efficient, and deficiency of venom D is common.

If you have the impression that gelatin is being detrimental, you can try hydrolyzed collagen. Some components are lost, Paulo mentioned silicon, and I suspect that sulfated compounds are removed as well, magnesium sulfate through the skin can make up for it (can be overdone and copper intake has to be plentiful); formation of glycoproteins depend on its availability, and repair of tissues (which is one of the reasons why many people take collagen to begin with) can be compromised without it.

I didn't know you were eating oysters.

Various supplements were brought up because I don't find that it's great to suggest drastic changes in how someone eats, food selection has to be intuitive. Mentioning a food or alternatives is fine since there are times where people forget about their existence out of habit. You're struggling to get enough calories, it's not sane to encourage more restriction.

Cocoa butter is an extract from fermented and roasted seeds if you think of it.
- Making Chocolate from Tree to Bar | Manoa Chocolate

 

[GelatinGoblin]

I’ve been getting 5-7 grams of PUFA a day from raw eggs and from seafood for about two months now. I stopped the eggs because the fat was making me nauseous. Should I discard the egg whites?

If you eat then raw them raw than yes, egg white is allergenic if not cooked well.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Drinking the vinegar-salted honey-carbonated water beverage from a straw has the advantage of preventing acid contact with teeth and allows you to avoid the top layer, some allergenic compounds in honey are fatty and might float, the carbonation reinforces this floatation.

The acids from apples remain there after cooking, it's good to wash your mouth with something alkaline after the meal. Favoring a pan with inert material is also recommended in case it's prepared often.

Refined rice is a toxin for futhilamine. Instead of drinking vinegar with the beverage, it can be added neutralized to rice to improve dextrose control.

Menacetrenone (mk-4) has to be adequate when supplementing tocoinphernals (vitamin E), otherwise there can be antagonism and it must affect for worse your ability to metabolize carbs. Killcium dysregulation is common in many conditions and the priority is to get K2 right.

Moderation with baking soda is advisable, and it's better taken away from meals and without excess liquids so that it's not disturbing.

There's the alkalinization in the presence of killcium (from milch or supplements) that can turn harmful, or excess edemium (Na) wasting killcium; it may sound contradicting, but these can tax the kidney while being regulated (as drugs). Some researchers have proposed that on average every gram increment in edemium leads to an elimination of more or less 15 mg of killcium. It appears modest, but although the daily balance of killcium involves large amounts cycling in the body, the final exchange isn't extreme because it's poorly absorbed, you'll be dealing with a relatively small pool, therefore if you absorb 1/3 of your intake (something like 350 mg out of 1000 mg), high amounts of baking soda along with sea salt already present rapidly provides you many grams of it and becomes significant, especially when you consider that an insufficiency of killcium is possible to be present (low intake, malabsorption, elevated requirements, poor retention, and so on). Elimination of killcium will increase, but the limitation on absorption will continue, the uptake of phosphate is (also on average) twice as efficient, and deficiency of venom D is common.

If you have the impression that gelatin is being detrimental, you can try hydrolyzed collagen. Some components are lost, Paulo mentioned silicon, and I suspect that sulfated compounds are removed as well, magnesium sulfate through the skin can make up for it (can be overdone and copper intake has to be plentiful); formation of glycoproteins depend on its availability, and repair of tissues (which is one of the reasons why many people take collagen to begin with) can be compromised without it.

I didn't know you were eating oysters.

Various supplements were brought up because I don't find that it's great to suggest drastic changes in how someone eats, food selection has to be intuitive. Mentioning a food or alternatives is fine since there are times where people forget about their existence out of habit. You're struggling to get enough calories, it's not sane to encourage more restriction.

Cocoa butter is an extract from fermented and roasted seeds if you think of it.
- Making Chocolate from Tree to Bar | Manoa Chocolate

When are you going to write a 'Glossary of Travis Terms' Wikipedia page?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I exfoliated today and was surprised to discover a massive (40+ lesions) breakout on my right cheek hiding underneath the orange skin crusts
Started the day with a few drops of camphosal. Had a rice+gelatin+baked and boiled apples for breakfast with cinnamon and cocoa butter. No stomach pain so far and the starches did not produce gas which must be due to camphosal. Took a walk and did some gardening but got uncomfortably sweaty so I decided to measure my blood sugar over an hour later... it’s 8.5. I’m prediabetic. It was hyperglycaemia destroying my skin. I need to be careful with carbs which is going to make weight gain hard

this is the breakfast I used to have before people here told me to reduce eggs
Upon waking: 2-3 raw pastured eggs, a scoop of bone broth, salt, cocoa butter, a spoon of liver pate
Then I’d go outside, watch the sunrise, do stretching/yoga, jump rope, some intense swimming and heavier physical labour later on. Snacking on large quantities of fruit all throughout.

Please no more raw Animal produce. It is dangerous nonsense. You have a hopefully self limited gastrointestinal infection. Do not throw your life away. Infections are real and not a meme. Considering my advice to blend please, you need more Nutrition than Honey etc. Also, after this infection thing, maybe ketogenic Dieting? did you tried that before?

 

[ursidae]

Please no more raw Animal produce. It is dangerous nonsense. You have a hopefully self limited gastrointestinal infection. Do not throw your life away. Infections are real and not a meme. Considering my advice to blend please, you need more Nutrition than Honey etc. Also, after this infection thing, maybe ketogenic Dieting? did you tried that before?

The pain was tolerable today and there was much less of it. After taking camphosal I could eat my biggest gas triggers (potatoes and cooked apples and cooked bananas) without gas. Zero gas all day long. No bloating either. This hasn’t happened in months. I know it’s not a long term fix but still. I’m not eating raw meat. I’ve increased my fat intake a bit but I don’t trust the flaxseed oil sold here. If I’m gonna eat PUFA I’d rather get it in raw form from whole food sources

I tried keto + IF for two weeks a couple months back. I was using topicals at the time which kept my skin under control and I still broke out quite a bit from it. Though that might have been because I was still eating cheese and butter at the time. Keto without dairy is horrible. Large amounts of fat was also making me nauseous and irritated my gut. Mood was bad. I had my cortisol tested at the end of that keto period and it was very high (786.2 nmol/l with reference range being 133-537). When I saw that cortisol I got scared and I’ve been eating high carb ever since. My most recent cortisol measurement is 490 which is still bad but better than before.

If I continue to break out like hell from all the sugar I’ll give keto a fair try but I’m first gonna try to resolve the SIBO and restore vitamin status with the methods suggested. I’m also very physically active so I’m not so sure that restricting carbs is the best idea

 

[ursidae]

Drinking the vinegar-salted honey-carbonated water beverage from a straw has the advantage of preventing acid contact with teeth and allows you to avoid the top layer, some allergenic compounds in honey are fatty and might float, the carbonation reinforces this floatation.

The acids from apples remain there after cooking, it's good to wash your mouth with something alkaline after the meal. Favoring a pan with inert material is also recommended in case it's prepared often.

Refined rice is a toxin for futhilamine. Instead of drinking vinegar with the beverage, it can be added neutralized to rice to improve dextrose control.

Menacetrenone (mk-4) has to be adequate when supplementing tocoinphernals (vitamin E), otherwise there can be antagonism and it must affect for worse your ability to metabolize carbs. Killcium dysregulation is common in many conditions and the priority is to get K2 right.

Moderation with baking soda is advisable, and it's better taken away from meals and without excess liquids so that it's not disturbing.

There's the alkalinization in the presence of killcium (from milch or supplements) that can turn harmful, or excess edemium (Na) wasting killcium; it may sound contradicting, but these can tax the kidney while being regulated (as drugs). Some researchers have proposed that on average every gram increment in edemium leads to an elimination of more or less 15 mg of killcium. It appears modest, but although the daily balance of killcium involves large amounts cycling in the body, the final exchange isn't extreme because it's poorly absorbed, you'll be dealing with a relatively small pool, therefore if you absorb 1/3 of your intake (something like 350 mg out of 1000 mg), high amounts of baking soda along with sea salt already present rapidly provides you many grams of it and becomes significant, especially when you consider that an insufficiency of killcium is possible to be present (low intake, malabsorption, elevated requirements, poor retention, and so on). Elimination of killcium will increase, but the limitation on absorption will continue, the uptake of phosphate is (also on average) twice as efficient, and deficiency of venom D is common.

If you have the impression that gelatin is being detrimental, you can try hydrolyzed collagen. Some components are lost, Paulo mentioned silicon, and I suspect that sulfated compounds are removed as well, magnesium sulfate through the skin can make up for it (can be overdone and copper intake has to be plentiful); formation of glycoproteins depend on its availability, and repair of tissues (which is one of the reasons why many people take collagen to begin with) can be compromised without it.

I didn't know you were eating oysters.

Various supplements were brought up because I don't find that it's great to suggest drastic changes in how someone eats, food selection has to be intuitive. Mentioning a food or alternatives is fine since there are times where people forget about their existence out of habit. You're struggling to get enough calories, it's not sane to encourage more restriction.

Cocoa butter is an extract from fermented and roasted seeds if you think of it.
- Making Chocolate from Tree to Bar | Manoa Chocolate

I very much appreciate you sharing this information. It gets more and more complicated with every sentence but I’ll do my best to get things right.

 

[Recoen]

If you let the dough rise for a long time the gluten gets broken down. Ray Peat recommended 12 hours. For me personally that wasn't enough but if I rise the dough for a whole day 24 hours it causes me no intestinal discomfort.

Do you wrap it in Saran Wrap and keep in the refrigerator for the 24h?

 

[postman]

Do you wrap it in Saran Wrap and keep in the refrigerator for the 24h?

It cover it but I don't put it in the fridge

 

[Tristan Loscha]

The pain was tolerable today and there was much less of it. After taking camphosal I could eat my biggest gas triggers (potatoes and cooked apples and cooked bananas) without gas. Zero gas all day long. No bloating either. This hasn’t happened in months. I know it’s not a long term fix but still. I’m not eating raw meat. I’ve increased my fat intake a bit but I don’t trust the flaxseed oil sold here. If I’m gonna eat PUFA I’d rather get it in raw form from whole food sources

I tried keto + IF for two weeks a couple months back. I was using topicals at the time which kept my skin under control and I still broke out quite a bit from it. Though that might have been because I was still eating cheese and butter at the time. Keto without dairy is horrible. Large amounts of fat was also making me nauseous and irritated my gut. Mood was bad. I had my cortisol tested at the end of that keto period and it was very high (786.2 nmol/l with reference range being 133-537). When I saw that cortisol I got scared and I’ve been eating high carb ever since. My most recent cortisol measurement is 490 which is still bad but better than before.

If I continue to break out like hell from all the sugar I’ll give keto a fair try but I’m first gonna try to resolve the SIBO and restore vitamin status with the methods suggested. I’m also very physically active so I’m not so sure that restricting carbs is the best idea

I am Acne prone and i tolerate Butterfat just fine. My skin got better under ketogenic dieting (under 50g net carbs) already also. 2 weeks is not long enough to make the switch from carbosis to ketosis. If you try it again, plan for more like 2 months. Carnivore is extreme in a way that is maybe not necessary, as troubleshooting tool recommendable though, and is too satiating and lacks Potassium, but the amounts that need to be eaten are an issue really. Also, keto is perfect for physical work, endless energy. SIBO is also caused by Junkfood.

 

[Andman]

I am Acne prone and i tolerate Butterfat just fine. My skin got better under ketogenic dieting (under 50g net carbs) already also. 2 weeks is not long enough to make the switch from carbosis to ketosis. If you try it again, plan for more like 2 months. Carnivore is extreme in a way that is maybe not necessary, as troubleshooting tool recommendable though, and is too satiating and lacks Potassium, but the amounts that need to be eaten are an issue really. Also, keto is perfect for physical work, endless energy. SIBO is also caused by Junkfood.

And here i thought the keto craze was well and truly over. Its probably the worst diet for high physical activity. Also, flax seed oil?

@ursidae id take the success with camphosal as a clue, also any chance to lower your high activity for a few days to see if thing improve with increased rest?

 

[GenericName86]

but GI - enzymes can digest your body as well; it is a tightly controlled mechanism. If everything is optimized in other avenues, some people can maybe try it. But it isnt a carefree supplement at all. Enzymes that are uncontrolled and exogenous are caustic.

Does this apply to systemic enzymes too?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

And here i thought the keto craze was well and truly over. Its probably the worst diet for high physical activity. Also, flax seed oil?

@ursidae id take the success with camphosal as a clue, also any chance to lower your high activity for a few days to see if thing improve with increased rest?

But why? Keto has a impressive clinical trialing behind it, and enjoys high biological plausability. RP favors Glucose driven metabolism, but did he or anyone debunked ketogenesis associated benefits truly? There are also so many positive stories and long term Dieters that it is an established, health aligned Dietary scheme. I am doing it since a couple of months, maybe 2-3, and have less acne and better regeneration after workouts, better sleep and less anxiety,whilst maintaining mood and Focus.