Haidut Interview Animal-based vs. Ray Peat diet - Podcast With Georgi Dinkov and Paul Saladino

[Dobbler]

I think starch is not a big deal or problem tbh. My digestion has been horrible for 7 years and starch or no starch made no much difference, even gluten. But everyone have right to eat how they want. I just think most Peaters make a too big problem out of starch.

 

[Blossom]

I enjoyed the interview, great collab, but I would have liked some more nuance.

I hear Georgi say the usual peaty things we hear about weight loss and low carb burn out. But what about Sean o'mara?


View: https://youtu.be/UxOib8PVC4o


He's been on Paul's show before. He didn't start low carbing until his late 40s, and has been paleo for about a decade and carnivore for like 4-5 years. So, much longer than georgis 1 year burn out time frame.

In the linked interview ~55 minutes in, he talks about being a stressed out, fat doctor trying to lose weight drinking a gallon of chocolate Skim milk a day. Gee, I wonder if anyone here has tried that.

It worked for him not at all, but from the pictures he shares the low carbing clearly has.

So in the context of the paradigm georgi presented to Paul, how do we explain Sean? He performs well, he has an aesthetic and athletic look, and a full head of hair.

Sean is pretty interesting. What’s most impressive is that he uses mri imaging to track visceral fat changes with great success. My brain can’t quite grasp why he’s seemingly able to tolerate fermented cod liver oil though. Perhaps his extensive fasting helps him overcome it.

 

[LadyRae]

@JerseyCow @Inaut totally agree

 

[Korven]

fermented cod liver oil

I remember taking spoonfuls of FCLO in 2013, just thinking about it now makes me gag, it tastes like rancid fish waste It is indeed impressive to spoon down fermented cod liver oil on a regular basis!

 

[Blossom]

I remember taking spoonfuls of FCLO in 2013, just thinking about it now makes me gag, it tastes like rancid fish waste It is indeed impressive to spoon down fermented cod liver oil on a regular basis!

Glad I’m not alone on that one!

 

[Melk]

Sean is pretty interesting. What’s most impressive is that he uses mri imaging to track visceral fat changes with great success. My brain can’t quite grasp why he’s seemingly able to tolerate fermented cod liver oil though. Perhaps his extensive fasting helps him overcome it.

A little telling that no one else has a comment about him lol. The mri stuff is genius, he's right that pictures speak more than lab value.

 

[Blossom]

A little telling that no one else has a comment about him lol. The mri stuff is genius, he's right that pictures speak more than lab value.

He inspired me to start sprinting and it really works when I stick with it. My visceral fat stays at about 2% when I sprint regularly. It’s at 3% right now after being busy with work the last 3 months and not having time to keep it up. Measurements are via a home biometric scale and not mri (because I’m a commoner) but I can definitely feel and see a difference in my body composition and I’m thankful to have that knowledge even if I’m not perfect at implementing it.
He also did an interview I listened to back in the summer where he talked about being a physician to the president during the Obama administration. Basically the takeaway was that even someone in that position gets the same mediocre level of care as the rest of the population which confirms what I’ve noticed myself. It doesn’t seem there are any secrets in conventional medicine being kept from the masses.
I think his Asperger’s helps him see patterns that many don’t notice. That said I just have zero interest in things like FCLO or extended fasting and so I take what resonates with me and leave the rest.

 

[Melk]

He inspired me to start sprinting and it really works when I stick with it. My visceral fat stays at about 2% when I sprint regularly. It’s at 3% right now after being busy with work the last 3 months and not having time to keep it up. Measurements are via a home biometric scale and not mri (because I’m a commoner) but I can definitely feel and see a difference in my body composition and I’m thankful to have that knowledge even if I’m not perfect at implementing it.
He also did an interview I listened to back in the summer where he talked about being a physician to the president during the Obama administration. Basically the takeaway was that even someone in that position gets the same mediocre level of care as the rest of the population which confirms what I’ve noticed myself. It doesn’t seem there are any secrets in conventional medicine being kept from the masses.
I think his Asperger’s helps him see patterns that many don’t notice. That said I just have zero interest in things like FCLO or extended fasting and so I take what resonates with me and leave the rest.

That's awesome, thanks for the info. It does help simmer down the conspiracy urges to know that even the president gets the crap std of care as everyone else.

Being able to measure Visceral Fat with a scale sounds super useful, what sort of scale do you have?

It's great to take what's useful. I think it's just puzzling me in light of Georgis fairly specific comments in that interview. Sean is all of the things that Gerogi said lead people to crash, but he's doing great. It's a gnawing dissonance, particularly for me, as it's not that different what I was doing before I found the peat stuff, and it was working. I have gained so much weight since I made an effort to never fast and balance my meat with carbs.

I can be carvivorish and do at least some IF, or maybe prolonged, and feel quite well. I lose weight, I get more work done, I don't get cold, maybe a little irritable but it's phasic. So do I just do that because it seems to work, and works for Sean, or is it a Faustian bargain that will shred my muscle and hormones the way georgi tells it? I don't want to put myself in a metabolic hole, but I want the good result that I was getting lol

 

[LadyRae]

That's awesome, thanks for the info. It does help simmer down the conspiracy urges to know that even the president gets the crap std of care as everyone else.

Being able to measure Visceral Fat with a scale sounds super useful, what sort of scale do you have?

It's great to take what's useful. I think it's just puzzling me in light of Georgis fairly specific comments in that interview. Sean is all of the things that Gerogi said lead people to crash, but he's doing great. It's a gnawing dissonance, particularly for me, as it's not that different what I was doing before I found the peat stuff, and it was working. I have gained so much weight since I made an effort to never fast and balance my meat with carbs.

I can be carvivorish and do at least some IF, or maybe prolonged, and feel quite well. I lose weight, I get more work done, I don't get cold, maybe a little irritable but it's phasic. So do I just do that because it seems to work, and works for Sean, or is it a Faustian bargain that will shred my muscle and hormones the way georgi tells it? I don't want to put myself in a metabolic hole, but I want the good result that I was getting lol

I hear you. Some bodies just want to pile on the fat after one reintroduces carbohydrates. Lots of people have had success losing fat with intermittent fasting and low carbing, intense exercise.....

I think the secret to succeeding is to drop and keep your dietary fat intake very very low, while consuming lots of fruits and easy to digest carbohydrates, whatever that may be for you. Some people do well with starches and some need to stay with juice or fruit.

Take frequent moderate walks during the day. Prioritize sleep.

It's frustrating to get the results you want, body composition wise, with the more unhealthy practices....

 

[Blossom]

That's awesome, thanks for the info. It does help simmer down the conspiracy urges to know that even the president gets the crap std of care as everyone else.

Being able to measure Visceral Fat with a scale sounds super useful, what sort of scale do you have?

It's great to take what's useful. I think it's just puzzling me in light of Georgis fairly specific comments in that interview. Sean is all of the things that Gerogi said lead people to crash, but he's doing great. It's a gnawing dissonance, particularly for me, as it's not that different what I was doing before I found the peat stuff, and it was working. I have gained so much weight since I made an effort to never fast and balance my meat with carbs.

I can be carvivorish and do at least some IF, or maybe prolonged, and feel quite well. I lose weight, I get more work done, I don't get cold, maybe a little irritable but it's phasic. So do I just do that because it seems to work, and works for Sean, or is it a Faustian bargain that will shred my muscle and hormones the way georgi tells it? I don't want to put myself in a metabolic hole, but I want the good result that I was getting lol

I’m carnivorish myself due to unique challenges from celiac & being floxed. I did horrible with low fat and high carb but a equal mix of macros doesn’t seem too bad. I have days where I’m carnivore with some honey and I have many days where I’ll have fruit or even occasionally starch (gasp)! The starch days are very rare though to be honest. I also alternate my carbs because if I eat the same ones day in and day out it doesn’t go well (besides honey which never bothers me). I suppose it’s somewhat like a rotation diet. Honestly I don’t feel bad if I’m in ketosis for short periods but for too long my sleep gets worse. Through self experimentation I’ve settled on this as what works best for me personally and I think we all owe it to ourselves to figure out the way of eating that helps us thrive. I find dietary fat necessary for hormonal balance. Of course I still avoid overt pufa like seed oils.
The biometric scale I use is just a cheap one from Amazon that a member here suggested. I only get on it once a month because I don’t want my life to revolve around insignificant daily/weekly fluctuations. After completely ignoring the scale for years I decided for me it’s good to check periodically.

 

[Blossom]

There are also a lot of really smart people that I respect but I could never eat like them and do well. Travis, a member here who passed away, was an example of this. He was a very brilliant guy with immense contributions to the forum but if I tried to eat vegan like him I’d be down for the count quickly. I think it’s good to respect a person’s intelligence and hear them out but there really isn’t one perfect diet for every human being. One thing I’ve learned from being here over the years is that we all have our own unique needs and only we can determine for ourselves through paying attention to our body’s feedback what those needs are exactly. Some people eat every 2-3 hours and others fast for days on end…
Some do well on organ meats and some don’t….
I could go on but you get my point I’m sure.
I couldn’t thrive long term eating similar to Peat but that didn’t stop me from respecting him as a person and his body of work.

 

[Inaut]

There are also a lot of really smart people that I respect but I could never eat like them and do well. Travis, a member here who passed away, was an example of this. He was a very brilliant guy with immense contributions to the forum but if I tried to eat vegan like him I’d be down for the count quickly. I think it’s good to respect a person’s intelligence and hear them out but there really isn’t one perfect diet for every human being. One thing I’ve learned from being here over the years is that we all have our own unique needs and only we can determine for ourselves through paying attention to our body’s feedback what those needs are exactly. Some people eat every 2-3 hours and others fast for days on end…
Some do well on organ meats and some don’t….
I could go on but you get my point I’m sure.
I couldn’t thrive long term eating similar to Peat but that didn’t stop me from respecting him as a person and his body of work.

This

 

[Melk]

There are also a lot of really smart people that I respect but I could never eat like them and do well. Travis, a member here who passed away, was an example of this. He was a very brilliant guy with immense contributions to the forum but if I tried to eat vegan like him I’d be down for the count quickly. I think it’s good to respect a person’s intelligence and hear them out but there really isn’t one perfect diet for every human being. One thing I’ve learned from being here over the years is that we all have our own unique needs and only we can determine for ourselves through paying attention to our body’s feedback what those needs are exactly. Some people eat every 2-3 hours and others fast for days on end…
Some do well on organ meats and some don’t….
I could go on but you get my point I’m sure.
I couldn’t thrive long term eating similar to Peat but that didn’t stop me from respecting him as a person and his body of work.

Well said, thank you

 

[Mauritio]

Saladino deserves a medal of honor after going through this , that's for sure lol


View: https://youtu.be/OH2IIz3W4nc

 

[area51puy]

I hear you. Some bodies just want to pile on the fat after one reintroduces carbohydrates. Lots of people have had success losing fat with intermittent fasting and low carbing, intense exercise.....

I think the secret to succeeding is to drop and keep your dietary fat intake very very low, while consuming lots of fruits and easy to digest carbohydrates, whatever that may be for you. Some people do well with starches and some need to stay with juice or fruit.

Take frequent moderate walks during the day. Prioritize sleep.

It's frustrating to get the results you want, body composition wise, with the more unhealthy practices....

I did low carb Atkins diet for years when I ever wanted to drop a few pounds for a month or 2 at a time and then ate crappy processed food’s in between for years, but I was always very active.

And about 5 years ago I was strict keto with intermittent fasting for about 2 year , then I was carnivore and Omad for about year and have been peating coming up on two years.

Doing keto and fasting I got very skinny and slowly lost a lot of muscle and lost strength not knowing at the time it was elevated cortisol breaking down my muscles.

I remember in a generate energy podcast a few years ago haidut mentioned in a study when you go low carb for a very longtime the cell dismantles the process to metabolize sugar and that process probably takes time to come back. So if off the bat if people introduce lots of sugar and fat they will put on pounds like I did coming from keto.

But thing I noticed is I put on some extra weight but I also put on the lots muscle pretty rapidly and gained a lots of my strength back and felt a hell of a lot better.

Hindsight I would have cut way down on the fat and slowly introduce carbs to give the body time to acclimate. But at the time I was ice cream is good for you. I’ll take all of it. Lots of full fat milk and oj.

After the initial weight gain of about 25 pounds and some muscle in there, I’ve dropped about 15 of those pounds after I cut down on the fat.

 

[Jonk]

Sean is all of the things that Gerogi said lead people to crash

If you look at several of his videos his eyes look almost manic. My guess is he's medicated. But I might be wrong of course.

 

[LadyRae]

I did low carb Atkins diet for years when I ever wanted to drop a few pounds for a month or 2 at a time and then ate crappy processed food’s in between for years, but I was always very active.

And about 5 years ago I was strict keto with intermittent fasting for about 2 year , then I was carnivore and Omad for about year and have been peating coming up on two years.

Doing keto and fasting I got very skinny and slowly lost a lot of muscle and lost strength not knowing at the time it was elevated cortisol breaking down my muscles.

I remember in a generate energy podcast a few years ago haidut mentioned in a study when you go low carb for a very longtime the cell dismantles the process to metabolize sugar and that process probably takes time to come back. So if off the bat if people introduce lots of sugar and fat they will put on pounds like I did coming from keto.

But thing I noticed is I put on some extra weight but I also put on the lots muscle pretty rapidly and gained a lots of my strength back and felt a hell of a lot better.

Hindsight I would have cut way down on the fat and slowly introduce carbs to give the body time to acclimate. But at the time I was ice cream is good for you. I’ll take all of it. Lots of full fat milk and oj.

After the initial weight gain of about 25 pounds and some muscle in there, I’ve dropped about 15 of those pounds after I cut down on the fat.

Your experience is very similar to my own. I remember an Easter weekend several years ago after practicing keto and intermittent fasting and all that stuff for about a year, i indulged in some Easter candy with my kids and completely blew up into this puffy water log mess within hours! Pounding heart, sweats... Probably gave myself a temporary diabetic State due to the glucose refusal in my cells. It was really scary but that started my journey to where I am now.

It sounds like you are adjusting and evening out which I guess is quite normal according to Georgi's experience too. And I bet you feel a lot better! Hang in there

 

[area51puy]

Paul being attack on the Randle and sugar consumption


View: https://youtu.be/eU3w7GlAYtQ

 

[Blossom]

I did low carb Atkins diet for years when I ever wanted to drop a few pounds for a month or 2 at a time and then ate crappy processed food’s in between for years, but I was always very active.

And about 5 years ago I was strict keto with intermittent fasting for about 2 year , then I was carnivore and Omad for about year and have been peating coming up on two years.

Doing keto and fasting I got very skinny and slowly lost a lot of muscle and lost strength not knowing at the time it was elevated cortisol breaking down my muscles.

I remember in a generate energy podcast a few years ago haidut mentioned in a study when you go low carb for a very longtime the cell dismantles the process to metabolize sugar and that process probably takes time to come back. So if off the bat if people introduce lots of sugar and fat they will put on pounds like I did coming from keto.

But thing I noticed is I put on some extra weight but I also put on the lots muscle pretty rapidly and gained a lots of my strength back and felt a hell of a lot better.

Hindsight I would have cut way down on the fat and slowly introduce carbs to give the body time to acclimate. But at the time I was ice cream is good for you. I’ll take all of it. Lots of full fat milk and oj.

After the initial weight gain of about 25 pounds and some muscle in there, I’ve dropped about 15 of those pounds after I cut down on the fat.

Your story sounds like mine except the first time I gained 70 pounds. That was rough to carry on a 5’1 frame so I agree completely that we need to go slow when reintroducing carbs after VLC, keto, carnivore etc. Extremes seem very destabilizing when health is poor because the body wants to maintain homeostasis. I think the big difference for me the second time around was that I had learned to listen to my body, had also eaten low pufa, used other peaty measure for many years and worked on certain toxicities unique to me that I was unaware of when I first started reading Peat’s work. We had a very helpful member when I first joined by the username Mittir who mentioned that people should only gain a small amount from adding back carbs due to refilling glycogen stores but I gained a lot because my metabolism and hormones were trashed. Now the difference in my weight eating carbs v not eating carbs is only a couple pounds.

 

[FrostedShores]

I've had similar thoughts but to be fair he also moved to Costa Rica and spends several hours in the sun each day. Also, iron overload from high red meat intake could potentially be another risk factor for premature aging. I wouldn't say that carbs per se is what caused his skin to look more wrinkled. Most likely its Caucasian white male + surfing hours everyday in equatorial climate = raisin effect.

These were my thoughts as well. He doesn't look old - he just looks sun damaged. If your ancestors spent thousands of years adapting to a certain climate, then it's unrealistic to think you'll do well in an entirely different climate. In my own experience, adding carbs back into my diet after doing keto/carnivore for over a year improved my skin, so I doubt his more wrinkled appearance has anything to do with carbs.