Angular Cheilitis

[messtafarian]

I've got this again.

I've seen some suggestions throughout Google, one that it is thrush, and one that it is a vitamin deficiency with B1 being the most common; also that it could be a deficiency of iron.

I doubt that I have a B1 deficiency since I've been taking LOTS of B1 with magnesium for six weeks. I do have an iron deficiency but in Peatworld that's a good thing and I don't personally believe low iron has these terrible effects.

That leaves thrush; candida, which could be true since I've been on heavy antibiotics and had two recent courses of prednisone, even though I supplemented probiotics throughout ( not sure if that does anything, but I did it).

It always seems like whenever I get heavy into peating, I get angular cheilitis. Is there another explanation or remedy?

 

[Peata]

I had to look this up. I used to get this and didn't even know what it was called. I think the last time I got it was back in 2007 or so. At first I though it was cold sores, but treatment for that never helped. I went to a derm about it and I think he said it was fungal, and prescribed anti-fungal - maybe ketoconazole? So after that, when it would come back, I'd just buy the cheap, generic ketoconazole from the store and use it carefully on it til it went away. It was like painful, swollen cuts at one or both corners of my mouth. Anyway, I don't know why i never got it again.

 

[messtafarian]

I've successfully treated it before with athlete's foot medication -- it was the only antifungal I had in the house. That solves the problem but I keep wondering if there is something systemic.

I am really trying to avoid another course of antibiotics, prednisone, etc. If whatever I had is not dead and gone by now it's got my deepest respect.

 

[Peata]

I've seen deficiencies listed as causes from http://www.med.navy.mil, but I wonder if a person wouldn't have other severe symptoms of the deficiencies too?

Vitamin A, since mucosal tissue, include lip area, is affected.

Riboflavin deficiency also manifests in the oral tissues.

B3

Folic Acid, B12

Adding, perhaps low thyroid?

 

[messtafarian]

Yeah, i agree, if the B vitamins are chronically low there should be more than that as a manifestation. Fatigue, anemia, nerve problems, etc. I do *have* anemia but it is improving and as I said I have been supplementing with the b vitamins pretty steadfastly for a while. But I just took two more b complex caps...who knows, maybe I just need more...

I've been supplementing with A also, but only a couple times a week. '

Maybe time to break out the tinactin. :)

 

[Blossom]

Maybe flowers of sulfur could help.

 

[tara]

Hi, I had a lot of trouble with angular cheilitis a few months ago, lasting on and off for several months, but then it went away. I've had it occasionally in the past, but never so much, and had thought it was cold sores too.
What I read about angular cheilitis was that:
- It can be caused by fungal or bacterial infections or both at once, coming from common microbiota normally found in the mouth, getting into small cracks in the skin at the corners of the mouth.
- It can be aggravated by touching mouth and lips, including things like spreading lip salves onto the lips.
- Susceptibility is greater if immunity is impaired - so any deficiency that is messing with immunity may be relevant.

What I think may have helped for me:
- Not spreading coconut oil or other things on my lips, which I had been doing. If you do need to, spread from the centre of lips outwards with a clean finger for each stroke. Avoid touching unless you really need to.
- Dabbing with vinegar was sometimes enough to catch it. Vinegar is a fairly effective antifungal because it is acidic. I didn't try flowers of sulphur then, but I might next time - I've got some mxed up with coconut oil for my foot.
- When vinegar wasn't enough, a tiny dab of tea tree oil diluted in olive oil was pretty effective. Tea tree should take out both bacteria and fungi. But tea tree oil is a bit poisonous, and I don't really want to get much of it in my mouth, so I use this as sparingly as I can. I haven't found oregano oil yet, but it wouldn't surprise my if that would be effective too, possibly diluted with olive or coconut oil.
- maybe winter was getting me and spring and summer sunshine helped.

My guess is that systemic tactics may improve resistance, but once it's taken hold, some topical treatment may be helpful.

 

[messtafarian]

Thanks, Tara:

I was on prednisone for about fifteen days out of this month and only finished the last dose pack ten days ago, so it seems like that might be why it's showed up. I hesitate to add more supplements since I seem to be taking a thousand of them already, and I really need a break from antibiotics too I think.

I'm just going to dab a little tinactin in the corner of my mouth. It always works, but this also tells me my immune system must be fried.

 

[tara]

I've not read, but speculate, that the things that suppor general skin health and repair migt be relevant too, eg a little vit c, pref from food, vit E, gelatine.
As I said, I had a run with it, but I don't think my general immunity is terrible - I don't catch colds or other infections more readily than people around me.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Thanks, Tara:

I was on prednisone for about fifteen days out of this month and only finished the last dose pack ten days ago, so it seems like that might be why it's showed up. I hesitate to add more supplements since I seem to be taking a thousand of them already, and I really need a break from antibiotics too I think.

I'm just going to dab a little tinactin in the corner of my mouth. It always works, but this also tells me my immune system must be fried.

Curious if you found a long term solution for this?

 

[jitsmonkey]

B2
Sun

"It always seems like whenever I get heavy into peating, I get angular cheilitis"

Increased metabolism
a) increases nutrient requirements
b) exposes nutritional and systemic shortfalls

 

[tomisonbottom]

B2
Sun

"It always seems like whenever I get heavy into peating, I get angular cheilitis"

Increased metabolism
a) increases nutrient requirements
b) exposes nutritional and systemic shortfalls

What makes you say B2......has that worked for you before?

 

[encerent]

patorleum jelly at the corners of the mouth after brushing after eating, every done until its gone. nothing else has worked for me

 

[Pulstar]

Folks, did Ray himself mentioned lips health somewhere? If you got any other ideas and links of what causes and what prevents and heals angular cheilitis, please share. I would be grateful.

 

[Stilgar]

Ray told me that intestinal irritation and vitamin deficiencies are the usual causes of angular chellitis.

 

[Pulstar]

Ray told me that intestinal irritation and vitamin deficiencies are the usual causes of angular chellitis.

Thanks, did he mention what vitamins play the biggest role?

 

[GAF]

Riboflavin

here is one link out of hundreds on Riboflavin. B2 is cheap, harmless, and easily available. You may find that taking some higher doses for a while might help out with a bunch of other issues you may have. Riboflavin deficiency is a serious matter and is easily solved.

 

[Pulstar]

 

[Stilgar]

Thanks, did he mention what vitamins play the biggest role?

He wasn’t specific