Anemic? Please Help

DaveFoster

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Let me just say that I'm really thankful for all the help and advice on this forum. I've taken a break off of school, but I'm still doing work. I've been doing Buteyko breathing, taking no supplements, and working very minorly.

I currently have costochondritis (inflammation of the lung cartilage), and I have high adrenaline symptoms in the morning and no energy throughout the day (but no high adrenaline throughout the day due to salt and Buteyko breathing). I feel exhausted and even moving is hard. My body temperature hovers around 98.6, and my pulse is normal.

My calorie consumption has been very low; mostly just trying to get milk in for protein. I've been eating eggs, orange juice, and coconut oil. I will add in liver, and I'm just starting to add in my fat-soluble vitamins.

Here's my iron tests:

3/26/2016

IRON 83 ug/dL 50 - 160 ug/dL
TIBC 453 ug/dL 246 - 436 ug/dL
% SATURATION 18 % 13 - 50 %
FERRITIN 22 ng/mL 22 - 322 ng/mL

5/4/2016 (5-6 weeks later)

IRON 113 ug/dL 50 - 160 ug/dL
TIBC 407 ug/dL 246 - 436 ug/dL
% SATURATION 28 % 13 - 50 %
FERRITIN 13 ng/mL 22 - 322 ng/mL

Should I supplement iron? My ferritin is too low, but all the other values seem to reflect better iron status (as I've eaten a few high iron meals with meat in the mean time.)

I feel so exhausted all the time, and I have no appetite. My rib cage hurts, and I'm depressed because of it. Any help would be very much appreciated.
 

Brian

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Your symptoms do sound like an iron issue, if that's the case I would simply eat red meat and drink less milk.

You've been doing mostly juice and milk for a long time right? Others on the forum have noticed that can lower iron too much if done for too long without any good source of iron. I'm pretty sure I ran into a similar problem when I was doing a mostly milk and juice diet for awhile and I felt a lot of relief by including iron rich food and lowering dairy intake.

Once your iron comes back up you can drop the red meat again or make it an occasional thing, but still make sure that you are getting at least some iron so you don't become anemic again.
 
Last edited:

InChristAlone

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Wouldn't iron deficiency anemia cause low red blood cells? Do you have a CBC test?
 
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DaveFoster

DaveFoster

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Your symptoms do sound like an iron issue, if that's the case I would simply eat red meat and drink less milk.

You've been doing mostly juice and milk for a long time right? Others on the forum have noticed that can lower iron too much if done for too long without any good source of iron. I'm pretty sure I ran into a similar problem when I was doing a mostly milk and juice diet for awhile and I felt a lot of relief by including iron rich food and lowering dairy intake.

Once your iron comes back up you can drop the red meat again or make it an occasional thing, but still make sure that you are getting at least some iron so you don't become anemic again.
Thanks, Brian. I'm going to probably take iron supplements if the doctor recommends it to get my ferritin up, and then I'll add meat occasionally. I have been doing this for almost a year, and I've taken a great deal of Peat supplements (large dosages of aspirin and caffeine), which remove iron from the body.

Wouldn't iron deficiency anemia cause low red blood cells? Do you have a CBC test?
WBC 6.6 10^9/L 4.5 - 13.0 10^9/L
RBC: 4.87 10^12/L 3.80 - 5.20 10^12/L
Hgb 14.9 g/dL 13.0 - 16.0 g/dL
Hct, Final 44.6 % 37.0 - 49.0 %
MCV 91.5 fL 78.0 - 98.0 fL
MCH 30.5 pg 26.3 - 33.8 pg
MCHC 33.4 g/dL 31.5 - 36.3 g/dL
RDW-CV 14.1 % 11.5 - 14.5 %
Platelet Count 266 10^9/L 140 - 444 10^9/L
MPV 8.4 fL 6.8 - 10.8 fL
NEUTROPHILS % 47.0 % 34.0 - 64.0 %
LYMPHOCYTES % 39.5 % 20.0 - 53.0 %
MONOCYTES % 9.9 % 1.0 - 10.0 %
EOSINOPHILS % 2.8 % 0.0 - 6.0 %
BASOPHILS % 0.8 % 0.0 - 2.0 %
NEUTROPHILS ABS 3.1 10^9/L 1.0 - 8.0 10^9/L
LYMPHOCYTES ABS 2.6 10^9/L 1.2 - 5.2 10^9/L
MONOCYTES ABSOLUTE 0.7 10^9/L 0.0 - 0.8 10^9/L
EOSINOPHILS ABSOLUTE 0.2 10^9/L 0.0 - 0.5 10^9/L
BASOPHILS ABS 0.1 10^9/L 0.0 - 0.2 10^9/L

Standard ranges are on the right, and mine are on the left. This was just over a month ago.
 

PeatThemAll

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Firstly, you made the best decision possible (taking a break).

I was in a similar situation not too long ago after going through a year and a half of the highest, most constant stress period I've ever encountered at work, in addition to doing record levels of overtime at work during all that time. Instead of listening to my body, I masked my fatigue with coffee, stress, and "doing one's duty" rationalization. It eventually caught up with me. Near the end, I was so tired that even 2 weeks of full rest didn't even dent the exhaustion feeling I had.

PUFAs didn't help either. I started having balance/vertigo problems similar to what Haidut mentionned in an interview. At that time, I was going for energy density, and cashews, almonds, and trail mix were my go-to foods by default at work. I didn't know much about Peat/PUFAs at that time, but in retrospect, overall, all these nuts didn't help (regardless of their supposed iron content and whatever touted benefits). My hunch is that all their antinutrients, starch, and reported inflammation / leaky-gut aggravation nature, as well as PUFAs were something I wasn't equipped to deal with. Ever.

At that time, my doctor asked for a full blood panel and told my a couple of markers needed to be addressed asap (red+white blood cell, platelets, CRP). I told him about my symptoms, he couldn't isolate anything special, had me reporting every 3 months for full blood panels, and after 6-9 months of full *lying* rest (thank God for YouTube, online documentaries, and some passive reading when I felt like it) things started getting better.

I recently had a similar super-low episode (low hematocrit after a month of vegan/Esselstyn-style diet) except this time most people noticed my weight loss more than anything else. My saving grace has been canned meat/fish (170 gram cans) at every meal + digestive enzymes (I'm in my mid-40s) + not limiting calories in any way (heck, sometimes I had to force myself to eat more even though I didn't feel like it ... gotta retrain my body out of starvation mode, I told myself). I felt really, really better within 2 weeks.

Believe in somatic intelligence. Give in to whatever craving you have. Distract the monkey mind with meditation (or just focusing on any body signal ... give your brain a chance to switch to its mamallian / reptilian circuits) to lower cortisol. Yes, the latter is a discipline. Pride aside, I had to force myself to do it, as my 'hamster' (monkey mind) would just spoil any recovery attempt if kept unchecked.

Hope this helps. Wishing you the best of possible recovery.
 

tara

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I'm going to probably take iron supplements if the doctor recommends it to get my ferritin up, and then I'll add meat occasionally.
If it were me, I'd be upping liver intake for starters, and eat some other meat. Some people speculate that liver gives more usable forms of iron that the common supplemental forms. I haven't investigated, but it seems possible. Lots of other goodies in liver too.
 
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DaveFoster

DaveFoster

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Firstly, you made the best decision possible (taking a break).

I was in a similar situation not too long ago after going through a year and a half of the highest, most constant stress period I've ever encountered at work, in addition to doing record levels of overtime at work during all that time. Instead of listening to my body, I masked my fatigue with coffee, stress, and "doing one's duty" rationalization. It eventually caught up with me. Near the end, I was so tired that even 2 weeks of full rest didn't even dent the exhaustion feeling I had.

PUFAs didn't help either. I started having balance/vertigo problems similar to what Haidut mentionned in an interview. At that time, I was going for energy density, and cashews, almonds, and trail mix were my go-to foods by default at work. I didn't know much about Peat/PUFAs at that time, but in retrospect, overall, all these nuts didn't help (regardless of their supposed iron content and whatever touted benefits). My hunch is that all their antinutrients, starch, and reported inflammation / leaky-gut aggravation nature, as well as PUFAs were something I wasn't equipped to deal with. Ever.

At that time, my doctor asked for a full blood panel and told my a couple of markers needed to be addressed asap (red+white blood cell, platelets, CRP). I told him about my symptoms, he couldn't isolate anything special, had me reporting every 3 months for full blood panels, and after 6-9 months of full *lying* rest (thank God for YouTube, online documentaries, and some passive reading when I felt like it) things started getting better.

I recently had a similar super-low episode (low hematocrit after a month of vegan/Esselstyn-style diet) except this time most people noticed my weight loss more than anything else. My saving grace has been canned meat/fish (170 gram cans) at every meal + digestive enzymes (I'm in my mid-40s) + not limiting calories in any way (heck, sometimes I had to force myself to eat more even though I didn't feel like it ... gotta retrain my body out of starvation mode, I told myself). I felt really, really better within 2 weeks.

Believe in somatic intelligence. Give in to whatever craving you have. Distract the monkey mind with meditation (or just focusing on any body signal ... give your brain a chance to switch to its mamallian / reptilian circuits) to lower cortisol. Yes, the latter is a discipline. Pride aside, I had to force myself to do it, as my 'hamster' (monkey mind) would just spoil any recovery attempt if kept unchecked.

Hope this helps. Wishing you the best of possible recovery.
Thank you so much for writing that out. I'll take it easy completely; I'll do the best I can and then relax for the summer if possible. I still have to get classes completed, but I'll work it out for my teachers.

If it were me, I'd be upping liver intake for starters, and eat some other meat. Some people speculate that liver gives more usable forms of iron that the common supplemental forms. I haven't investigated, but it seems possible. Lots of other goodies in liver too.
I just got liver and oysters. I'll add these in, and start eating vegetables and occasional meat. Thanks for the advice, tara.
 

Makrosky

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My GF is vegetarian and she developped some sort of iron+b12 deficiency. The doctor prescribed supplemental forms of both (I think stronger than regular OTC supps). After a single dose of each the improvement has been amazing. So you can go for the supps to replenish stores quickly and then liver+red meat at least once a week.
 

YuraCZ

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My GF is vegetarian and she developped some sort of iron+b12 deficiency. The doctor prescribed supplemental forms of both (I think stronger than regular OTC supps). After a single dose of each the improvement has been amazing. So you can go for the supps to replenish stores quickly and then liver+red meat at least once a week.
Again. Taking iron in pills is VERY unwise. So please don't throw recommendations just like that. Without any deeper knowledge on the subject.. It is dangerous..
 

Makrosky

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Again. Taking iron in pills is VERY unwise. So please don't throw recommendations just like that. Without any deeper knowledge on the subject.. It is dangerous..
You are right that I don't have a deep knowledge of the subject. I was just trying to show an example on how it worked, at least in my GFs case. I saw such an inmediate very pronounced improvement that I think taking a few iron drugs/supps to quickly get out of the anemic state won't do much harm. But I might be totally wrong.

How can a vegetarian (which is healthy besides the anemia) safely and easily recover from a iron anemia without having to spend a year rewiring her brain to discard all her previous knowledge, reading RP articles + forum, possibly becoming orthorexic and start ingesting hormones or supplements ?

I'll check the doctor scripts and see which iron pills are she taking exactly.

It's gonna be a difficult situation because no way she's gonna eat liver... :-(

Thanks
 
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YuraCZ

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Would you care sharing with us why is it unwise ?
Why is unwise to eating iron from pills? Because it is not a same like organic iron from liver with all cofactors? Simply iron can be very dangerous. Especially from inorganic sources..
 

Makrosky

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Why is unwise to eating iron from pills? Because it is not a same like organic iron from liver with all cofactors? Simply iron can be very dangerous. Especially from inorganic sources..
Yeah, ok. I think it's not the ideal form of iron but for a short term use it's better than having chronic anemia ?
 

YuraCZ

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Yeah, ok. I think it's not the ideal form of iron but for a short term use it's better than having chronic anemia ?
Ideally eating liver with vit C for some time, then retesting and if it's not enough then take iron pills..
 

Makrosky

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Ideally eating liver with vit C for some time, then retesting and if it's not enough then take iron pills..
Thanks Yura. I really doubt she's gonna eat liver... If she takes Vit C (500mg?) with the iron pills is it gonna somehow lessen the dangers of the iron pills ?

What's the logic behind it ? Vit C counteracts the oxidation from the iron ?
 

YuraCZ

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Thanks Yura. I really doubt she's gonna eat liver... If she takes Vit C (500mg?) with the iron pills is it gonna somehow lessen the dangers of the iron pills ?

What's the logic behind it ? Vit C counteracts the oxidation from the iron ?
Vitamin C increases iron absorption. Coffee decreases iron absorbtion. I have high ferritin so I eat liver with coffee. But somebody with low ferritin and iron should eat iron rich foods with vit C for better absorbtion...
 

Makrosky

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Vitamin C increases iron absorption. Coffee decreases iron absorbtion. I have high ferritin so I eat liver with coffee. But somebody with low ferritin and iron should eat iron rich foods with vit C for better absorbtion...
Cool thanks.
 

tara

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Look up other iron rich foods too, and eat with vit-C rich fruit? eg scallops (if she would consider shellfish - not much of a CNS), spinach, ...
 

Birdie

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In my journey from iron deficiency anemia, I found it helpful to check the iron rich foods that also contain iron inhibitors or blockers.
(Example is spinach which is often touted as useful in treating anemia.)

Being aware of iron blockers helped me to absorb a little iron by avoiding those foods. Note: I only started avoiding these for about a month (this March) before my labs improved.

I habitually use such blockers as coffee with meat. Another blocker I recall is eggs... Do a search if you're interested. Foods that contain substances that block iron absorption... People with high iron values use these foods to reduce their iron load.

For 2 or 3 years, I refused to use the iron supplements. This probably slowed my improvement, but...

Toward the end, I did add the bis-glycinate form of iron. I used OptiFerin-C from pure encapsulations which contains 26mg iron and some vit C when I got desperate. That was for only about 2 weeks, so hard to tell how much it was responsible for healing. My April labs showed Ferritin up to 38. My hair seemed to stop falling out and I saw other improvements of some sort.

I am not advising anybody to follow my adventure. I was too stubborn and should have begun avoiding iron blockers sooner, and maybe used the bis-glycinate Fe too.
And to clarify, I am no longer avoiding those iron blockers since I'm not low iron anemic now...
 
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whit

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If it were me, I'd be upping liver intake for starters, and eat some other meat. Some people speculate that liver gives more usable forms of iron that the common supplemental forms. I haven't investigated, but it seems possible. Lots of other goodies in liver too.

:+1 I'd keep supplements at a minimum for now.
 

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