Androsterone

[jtoro]

Can Androsterone cause lower testosterone, low libido and infertility?
I am taking 5mg of idealabs supplement
I have atrocious testosterone levels of under 200 and obese 270lbs

 

[hei]

What was your condition before using it? What else do you use/eat/do that could affect your condition?

 

[jtoro]

low T, obesity.
I am wondering if using androesterone can make libido worse?

 

[Jessie]

Unlikely, androsterone is a powerful aromatase inhibitor and can convert to DHT via a "backdoor." If you're obese then that's definitely the reason for low T. People with excess bodyfat carry more cortisol, more estrogen, and more aromatase. Androsterone is likely to help here, particularly with low dose pregnenolone. The best thing you could do is lose weight. The less bodyfat yo have the more your androgens will correct themselves.

 

[jtoro]

What do you suggest for losing bodyweight? There are so many conflicting advice

 

[Frankdee20]

Yes it lowers Testosterone, notoriously

 

[Jessie]

Yes it lowers Testosterone, notoriously

By what mechanism exactly?

 

[Jessie]

What do you suggest for losing bodyweight? There are so many conflicting advice

Lower your caloric intake, the bulk of which should probably come from dietary fat reduction. It's important to keep cortisol under control, so you don't want to eat low carb. This basically only leaves dietary fat and dietary protein, and if you cut too much protein it will give you hypo symptoms.

 

[Frankdee20]

By what mechanism exactly?

Conversion to DHT

 

[Jessie]

Interesting, I didn't know DHT lowered T. I guess this effect is "blunted" somewhat when combined with pregnenolone, which is the only way I've taken andro thus far.

I may take it isolated to see if it lowers libido. I do know you can potentially kill your libido if estrogen gets antagonized too much, which andro also does.

 

[jtoro]

Conversion to DHT

And this lowering of testosterone also lowered the libido?

What about adding pansterone to it

 

[Frankdee20]

And this lowering of testosterone also lowered the libido?

What about adding pansterone to it

That’s why most people use these in tandem, and an entire 50 page thread was made about such

 

[Velve921]

What do you suggest for losing bodyweight? There are so many conflicting advice

If you haven’t yet, for 3 days measure your waking resting metabolic rate.

20 minutes after breakfast

20 minutes after lunch

84-90 bpm
98.6-99 F

...are considered optimal metabolic rates by Peat and Broda Barnes.

If not in these areas, focusing on foods and lifestyles choices that enhance the metabolic rate can be a good focus.

For most people, starting with digestive support foods can support androgen enhancement.

Daily raw carrot salad and lowering starches, thickening agents, and PUFA seems to work well for a lot of people.

Also, when most people lower/eliminate starches, thickening agents, and PUFA, body fat seems to go down pretty consistently.

 

[Hans]

Can Androsterone cause lower testosterone, low libido and infertility?
I am taking 5mg of idealabs supplement
I have atrocious testosterone levels of under 200 and obese 270lbs

Estrogen is a much more potent inhibitor of testosterone than DHT and androsterone is much better at lowering estrogen than increasing DHT. There are people who did blood work while using andro and I haven't seen one person who experienced a drop in T from using it. Androsterone and exemestane are structurally very similar and exemestane doesn't cause suppression. On the contrary, aromatase inhibitors are good at increasing testosterone.
To lose weight, you want to eat in a small deficit, eat enough protein and optimize gut health and thyroid function. Cutting calories is by far the most successful strategy for losing weight, but to succeed, the deficit has to be small.

 

[jtoro]

Estrogen is a much more potent inhibitor of testosterone than DHT and androsterone is much better at lowering estrogen than increasing DHT. There are people who did blood work while using andro and I haven't seen one person who experienced a drop in T from using it. Androsterone and exemestane are structurally very similar and exemestane doesn't cause suppression. On the contrary, aromatase inhibitors are good at increasing testosterone.
To lose weight, you want to eat in a small deficit, eat enough protein and optimize gut health and thyroid function. Cutting calories is by far the most successful strategy for losing weight, but to succeed, the deficit has to be small.

Thanks Hans.

For the sake of others, I'll ask my question here as well.
I guess the precise question is whether a lower estradiol can lower libido in a hypogonodal man?

Effects of endogenous testosterone and estradiol on sexual behavior in normal young men - PubMed

The role of estradiol in male reproductive function

After taking androsterone , vitamin e, and pasterone, my estradiols levels were cut in half.

my libido has crashed (other factors are involved such as gut issues and obesity).

I wonder if too low estradiol can be a bad thing?

Thank you Hans and everyone for responding.

 

[noqcks]

Everyone mentions “low estrogen” as the cause of libido issues from androsterone. But isn’t it due to high GABA? Andro is a GABA agonist.

After taking 1 drop of andro, I get high GABA symptoms - mental fog, low libido, stunted emotions.

I then take 4 drops of pansterone (GABA antagonist) and within 45 mins my libido returns.

@Hans

 

[Hans]

Everyone mentions “low estrogen” as the cause of libido issues from androsterone. But isn’t it due to high GABA? Andro is a GABA agonist.

After taking 1 drop of andro, I get high GABA symptoms - mental fog, low libido, stunted emotions.

I then take 4 drops of pansterone (GABA antagonist) and within 45 mins my libido returns.

@Hans

It could definitely be that as well.
Here is what I'm responding to OP.
The way estrogen promotes libido is by increasing dopamine release in a certain part of the hypothalamus. Serotonin has the opposite effect and blocks libido and the effects of dopamine. Estrogen is one of the most potent inducers of serotonin, but I think one reason why this increase in libido from estrogen is not blocked by serotonin, is because estrogen increases the serotonin receptor, 5-HT2A. Excess signaling through this receptor could ultimately lead to manic, hallucinations and hypersexuality, because it increases dopamine receptor D2 signaling as well as glutamate release, which stimulates the release of dopamine in the hypothalamus.
So some people do benefit from higher estrogen, but it's rather that estrogen has an indirect action on libido, and not direct.
St John's Wort can also increase 5-HT2A and increase libido. I'm currently writing an article on this.

 

[jtoro]

Andro has to be the worst substance I've ever tried. I take responsibility for not doing my research . It seems that almost all complain of having serious libido issues after trying this substance.

Anyone, please help and let me know how fast you were able to recover your libido after stopping androsterone.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Estrogen is a much more potent inhibitor of testosterone than DHT and androsterone is much better at lowering estrogen than increasing DHT. There are people who did blood work while using andro and I haven't seen one person who experienced a drop in T from using it. Androsterone and exemestane are structurally very similar and exemestane doesn't cause suppression. On the contrary, aromatase inhibitors are good at increasing testosterone.
To lose weight, you want to eat in a small deficit, eat enough protein and optimize gut health and thyroid function. Cutting calories is by far the most successful strategy for losing weight, but to succeed, the deficit has to be small.

Do you know forsure if these people were using androsterone alone? Or combining it with other precursor steroids such as pregnenolone, DHT has been spoken about here on the forum causing suppressions of the HPTA resulting in lower testosterone from gonadal suppression, and so if enough of that androsterone is converting into DHT, and androsterone is the only steroid they’re taking, would it not make sense to assume that it would have similar side effects as taking too much DHT? Such as the gonadal suppression? And so if a person is in a hypometabolic state where they lets say they wouldnt be making much testosterone naturally, would it not make sense to assume that taking something that is likely to convert into DHT which suppresses T synthesis would could likely exaggerate the problem?

This i think is the reason why Peat is more of an advocate of the 3 basic precursor hormones is because it seems the further downstream you go, the more you have to balance this with other hormones, and Georgi also said in a podcast himself recently that taking end point hormones like DHT or possibly even androsterone can result in deficiencies of the other (just paraphrasing but check the podcast if you want to hear it yourself)

But anyway this is likely why pregnenolone is always reccomended as a hormone to add to your steroid supplement regimen, is because it just has that balancing effect, so IF androsterone IS causing T suppression through DHT conversion suppressing HPTA, then it may only seem logical to add a bit of pregnenolone to the mix to balance things out, possibly even some DHEA which is where Georgi’s pansterone supplement becomes a good combo with it.

Personally androsterone is my favorite hormone to use, the mental benefits and relaxation is only rivaled by progesterone itself however ive experienced alot of the things described such as libido issues, and i can never say forsure its the androsterone or narrow it down to one thing, but androsterone has been one of the only hormones ive been mainly taking for the last 5 months and i couldnt figure out what might be causing these libido issues, but its possible it could be the androsterone, and if so maybe reducing the dose of that and adding some pregnenolone into the mix could likely balance things out,

Alot of people say tanking your estrogen kills libido but i for one am not convinced on that just yet, i havent really seen any strong evidence to suggest that, and i think Georgi even covered it in one of Danny’s podcast a while ago something along the lines of estrogen is not essential for male libido (again just paraphrasing check for yourself)

But honestly i think the answer lies in maybe learning to balance the hormones properly, not taking too much of 1 hormones, unless its pregnenolone apparently because the consensus seems to be that you can take it in such high amounts with no issues because its so high up on the chain that the body just directs the pregnenolone down the pathways its hormonally deficient in wheather thats progesterone or testosterone etc.

So @jtoro ive experienced similar issues with what i believe may likely be the androsterone, and it’s hard to say, who really knows at the end of the day but perhaps trying a bit of pregnenolone could the factor to balance things out? Peat i think has said pregnenolone is likely the most effective hormones for male fertility/libido
Im sure we’ll all figure things out eventually
Just my 2 cents

 

[jtoro]

Do you know forsure if these people were using androsterone alone? Or combining it with other precursor steroids such as pregnenolone, DHT has been spoken about here on the forum causing suppressions of the HPTA resulting in lower testosterone from gonadal suppression, and so if enough of that androsterone is converting into DHT, and androsterone is the only steroid they’re taking, would it not make sense to assume that it would have similar side effects as taking too much DHT? Such as the gonadal suppression? And so if a person is in a hypometabolic state where they lets say they wouldnt be making much testosterone naturally, would it not make sense to assume that taking something that is likely to convert into DHT which suppresses T synthesis would could likely exaggerate the problem?

This i think is the reason why Peat is more of an advocate of the 3 basic precursor hormones is because it seems the further downstream you go, the more you have to balance this with other hormones, and Georgi also said in a podcast himself recently that taking end point hormones like DHT or possibly even androsterone can result in deficiencies of the other (just paraphrasing but check the podcast if you want to hear it yourself)

But anyway this is likely why pregnenolone is always reccomended as a hormone to add to your steroid supplement regimen, is because it just has that balancing effect, so IF androsterone IS causing T suppression through DHT conversion suppressing HPTA, then it may only seem logical to add a bit of pregnenolone to the mix to balance things out, possibly even some DHEA which is where Georgi’s pansterone supplement becomes a good combo with it.

Personally androsterone is my favorite hormone to use, the mental benefits and relaxation is only rivaled by progesterone itself however ive experienced alot of the things described such as libido issues, and i can never say forsure its the androsterone or narrow it down to one thing, but androsterone has been one of the only hormones ive been mainly taking for the last 5 months and i couldnt figure out what might be causing these libido issues, but its possible it could be the androsterone, and if so maybe reducing the dose of that and adding some pregnenolone into the mix could likely balance things out,

Alot of people say tanking your estrogen kills libido but i for one am not convinced on that just yet, i havent really seen any strong evidence to suggest that, and i think Georgi even covered it in one of Danny’s podcast a while ago something along the lines of estrogen is not essential for male libido (again just paraphrasing check for yourself)

But honestly i think the answer lies in maybe learning to balance the hormones properly, not taking too much of 1 hormones, unless its pregnenolone apparently because the consensus seems to be that you can take it in such high amounts with no issues because its so high up on the chain that the body just directs the pregnenolone down the pathways its hormonally deficient in wheather thats progesterone or testosterone etc.

So @jtoro ive experienced similar issues with what i believe may likely be the androsterone, and it’s hard to say, who really knows at the end of the day but perhaps trying a bit of pregnenolone could the factor to balance things out? Peat i think has said pregnenolone is likely the most effective hormones for male fertility/libido
Im sure we’ll all figure things out eventually
Just my 2 cents

Were you able to restore libido?