Androsterone - Liquid Androsterone For Lab/R&D

[ddjd]

The strong androgens are known to lower T when taken in higher doses. Human studies with DHT and oxandrolone (synthetic DHT) showed that as little as 5mg-10mg daily led to ~40% drop in T levels. I would check DHT and cortisol as these are two of the primary factors that influence T synthesis.
This is one reason androsterone is often paired with Pansterone or CortiNon - to offset some of that inhibitory effect of strong androgens.

hypothetically is it bad to have High DHT and low T?

 

[haidut]

hypothetically is it bad to have High DHT and low T?

I don't know of such case that occurs naturally. But even then, as long as T levels are not below 300 spermatogenesis should not suffer. It is better than being high E and low T as most Western men are.

 

[ddjd]

I don't know of such case that occurs naturally. But even then, as long as T levels are not below 300 spermatogenesis should not suffer. It is better than being high E and low T as most Western men are.

haidut as my LDL is ridiculously high, do you think it would be safe to take T3 alongside Androsterone or even Aromasin? so I could boost T and convert the LDL without increasing estrogen.

 

[Jsaute21]

A glass of sweetened chocolate milk with a tablespoon of gelatin. There are even studies about chocolate mill beating all commercial proteins when it comes to muscle recovery after a workout.

What chocolate milk do you typically use?

 

[haidut]

What chocolate milk do you typically use?

Organic Valley has a protein shake with two flavors - vanilla or chocolate. The also have regular sweetened milk in vanilla, chocolate or strawberry flavors. These are the ones I commonly use.

 

[jb116]

You guys seen the hershy's simple 5 ingredient chocolate syrup? With a good organic milk... :)

 

[BrianF]

Could someone take Androsterone with Pansterone or would taking Pansterone be pointless?

 

[cyclops]

Seems to produce acne at around 2-3 drops per day.

 

[haidut]

Could someone take Androsterone with Pansterone or would taking Pansterone be pointless?

Many people combine them. Just search the forum for "pansterone androsterone".

 

[haidut]

Seems to produce acne at around 2-3 drops per day.

Are you using anything else?

 

[cyclops]

Are you using anything else?

Yes, using a few other things, and never have acne. When I first introduced Androsterone (only thing I added) I got some acne, but after a few days (maybe a week) it is all gone. So not sure what that was about.

Also product seems to cause warmth and incredible fatigue at around 2-3 drops a day. Maybe that amount is too much.

 

[ddjd]

can either Androsterone or even DHT be toxic to the liver if taken orally?

 

[haidut]

can either Androsterone or even DHT be toxic to the liver if taken orally?

No such evidence exists for the bioidentical androsterone/DHT. In fact, humans studies with 100mg+ daily doses of DHT found lower liver enzymes. However, synthetic DHT version with extra methyl groups at position 1, 6, or 17 have been shown to elevate liver enzymes, usually in doses of 50mg or more. Also, some people sell DHEA derivatives like 1-DHEA, 2-DHEA, and 4-DHEA and market them as "androsterone", probably to confuse people into thinking it is indeed the fully saturated androsterone like the one we sell. Those DHEA derivatives have been shown to raise liver enzymes in high doses because just like regular DHEA they can be quite estrogenic in higher doses.

 

[ddjd]

No such evidence exists for the bioidentical androsterone/DHT. In fact, humans studies with 100mg+ daily doses of DHT found lower liver enzymes. However, synthetic DHT version with extra methyl groups at position 1, 6, or 17 have been shown to elevate liver enzymes, usually in doses of 50mg or more. Also, some people sell DHEA derivatives like 1-DHEA, 2-DHEA, and 4-DHEA and market them as "androsterone", probably to confuse people into thinking it is indeed the fully saturated androsterone like the one we sell. Those DHEA derivatives have been shown to raise liver enzymes in high doses because just like regular DHEA they can be quite estrogenic in higher doses.

are elevated liver enzymes necessarily an indicator of liver toxicity?

 

[haidut]

are elevated liver enzymes necessarily an indicator of liver toxicity?

If they have been normal before, then usually yes. Broda Barnes said that up to 2 x the upper range is probably not that bad. But still, a change from in range to out of range usually indicates something is going on, especially if more then one enzyme goes up and one of them is GGT.

 

[bdawg]

I did not mean to say what you experienced is placebo, maybe the solvent is good enough to enhance absorption orall too.

Spoiler: Oral absorption of androsterone

Androsterone - Androgenic, Anti-estrogenic, Thyromimetic Neurosteroid
CLOFIBRATE
The discovery of clofibrate is a curious example of serendipity in science. In the early 1960s, J.M. Thorp and colleagues, working at Imperial Chemical Industries Limited in England, were experimenting with the effects of steroid hormones on metabolism. It had been shown by Hellman et al. that the adrenal steroid androsterone could lower blood cholesterol levels when given intramuscularly but was without effect when given orally (36). Androsterone itself is not well absorbed from the intestine so Thorp and colleagues were hoping to find some way to increase its absorption. They found that clofibrate (α-p-chlorophenoxyisobutyrate), when administered orally along with androsterone, yielded a consistent fall in blood cholesterol levels (37;38). They inferred, logically enough, that the clofibrate was enhancing the absorption of androsterone, the presumed active component.

@Wagner83 does this mean sublingual androsterone will do squat?

Hmm i might go back to topical administration with some old DMSO products ive got lying around

 

[Wagner83]

@Wagner83 does this mean sublingual androsterone will do squat?

Hmm i might go back to topical administration with some old DMSO products ive got lying around

I was just referring to what I read in the link I posted which you can check if you want. Ironmaglabs carries an oral product with hundreds of mg of androsterone which is an odd dose, I don't know if haidut's solvent makes it absorb enough orally. Btw I think sublingual is both topical and oral.

 

[Koveras]

The so-called Farnesoid X Receptor (FXR) is a very interesting nuclear receptor inside the cell. It has a multitude of functions, but one of the main functions includes sensing and controlling the levels and synthesis of bile acids. As I mentioned in a few other posts, nuclear receptors activated by the bile acids are responsible for their pro-metabolic effects and are the primary benefit resulting from weight-loss surgery. FXR has been extensively studied and has been found to be one of the master regulators of metabolism and mitochondrial function. In addition, FXR experimental agonists have been shown to reverse liver fibrosis or even help liver regenerate after ischemia/necrosis, improve insulin sensitivity, lower cholesterol and triglycerides, and even reverse diabetes. So, it is not very surprising that Big Pharma is hot in pursuit of synthetic chemicals that act as agonists on the FXR receptor.

Farnesoid X receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Farnesoid-X Receptor (FXR) - Selfhacked
Farnesoid X receptor, the bile acid sensing nuclear receptor, in liver regeneration. - PubMed - NCBI
Farnesoid X receptor as a regulator of fuel consumption and mitochondrial function. - PubMed - NCBI


While I was researching the various pro-metabolic effects of androsterone, I came upon this study which showed that androsterone is a potent activator / agonist of FXR and it can do that in low micromolar concentrations (10 microMol). These concentrations are achievable with in vivo doses with 10mg - 15mg androsterone in humans.

"...FXR has been established to play a critical role in the regulation of bile acid synthesis in the liver, predominantly by induction of expression of SHP (6, 7). Additionally, FXR regulates the enterohepatic recirculation of bile acids both through hepatic effects such as modulation of bile acid transporter expression (38, 39) and through effects within the intestine such as regulation of ileal bile acid-binding protein expression (40). FXR expression is high in the liver and intestine, consistent with this role. However, FXR is also expressed abundantly in the kidney and adrenal gland as well as numerous other organs and in vascular smooth muscle cells (2, 41). These other sites of FXR expression are not usually considered as targets for bile acid regulation, suggesting that other potential natural ligands may exist for FXR. Here we demonstrate by NMR spectroscopy that the steroid androsterone directly binds to the FXR-LBD and induces recruitment of coactivators such as SRC-1. Furthermore, androsterone can function as an activator of FXR both in a transfection system using gal4-FXR fusion protein induction of reporter genes and in cultured cells using endogenous FXR/retinoid X receptor heterodimer activation of gene expression. Finally, androsterone treatment of castrated male mice induced expression of SHP, suggesting that androsterone may also regulate gene expression in vivo via the FXR. It will be of interest to determine whether androsterone can regulate gene expression through FXR in other organs such as the adrenal gland."

Any feedback on the androsterone usage? Did this result in any HPTA shutdown after continuous use? I respect @haidut's studies but it is good to hear from the people who have experimented. I don't think permanent shutdown usually occurs unless abusing foreign hormones, including steroids.

Definitely seeing a lower libido at the moment and I'm quite sure it is from the Androsterone Pansterone combo. At first libido was increased but as of yesterday it has fallen off a cliff, sensitivity down there massively decreased as well.

I also have experienced some joint pain that others spoke of, I only had this once before when I took too much Tyromix.

Other supplements I am taking are; two drops of tyromix a day, one drop in the morning and one drop in the evening, as well as Metergoline and Lisuride (one dose per day), I also take vitamin A about 50,000-100,000Iu, Aspirin at night and niacinamide on occasion. The only new supplements to my regime are the Androsterone, Pansterone, Metergoline and Lisuride, so I've stopped taking them as of tonight to see what the effects will be, but my guess would be that Androsterone and Pansterone are the cause.

My theory is that given that adequate thyroid function already improves androgen production, that I may have driven down estrogen and cortisol too low through an overproduction of androgens which has created a negative feedback loop, but I am really just guessing.

My last dose of Andro Pansterone combo was about 24 hours ago.

@haidut or anyone else have any thoughts?

I don't think its silly to interact with men, as all of my best friends are males. My prior quote conveys that if someone alters their demeanor towards you because of a smell, that is pretty telling in itself. All the power to you if you disagree, just was my 2c. Also, my points on DHT & T were not regarding the odor from Andro, but more so just feedback loop & overall risk upon administration. Has anyone who has used andro experienced shut down of any sort? It doesn't seem so.

@haidut androsterone is probably my favorite supplement, I like the way rats react when I’m on it BUT what I have noticed is that now even one drop make balls rats shrink, I’ve tried different routes as support androsterone with pregnenolone or dhea to give the testicle some raw material but it looks like It shut down the gonads and no matter how much time i wait for them to come back to normal size, androsterone shut the system down all the time.
It’s weird because at the begging of my journey it was helping with rats size.
I didn’t expect this because you mentioned few time the negative feedback loop shouldn’t kick in at low dosages and it’s true at the beginning I’ve push too much the accelerator but recently I’ve act very mindful with poor results.

Re: Negative feedback

Androsterone seems to lower androgen synthesis through activation of FXR, independently of the typical negative feedback loop (via GNRH/LH)

Bile acids and male fertility: From mouse to human?

 

[Wagner83]

Re: Negative feedback

Androsterone seems to lower androgen synthesis through activation of FXR, independently of the typical negative feedback loop (via GNRH/LH)

Bile acids and male fertility: From mouse to human?

View attachment 9209

Thanks. If bile acids affect androgens levels negatively I wonder how relevant it is for the use turmeric, taurine and dietary fat.

 

[Soren]

Re: Negative feedback

Androsterone seems to lower androgen synthesis through activation of FXR, independently of the typical negative feedback loop (via GNRH/LH)

Bile acids and male fertility: From mouse to human?

View attachment 9209

Interesting. I don't really know much about FXR or bile acids and I could not access the study you referenced. Does Andro cause any kind of permenant downregulation? Are you saying that Androsterone does not raise androgens at all? Or maybe that it causes a temporary raise but activation of FXR ends up lowering synthesis over time? Apologies for the muddled questioning.

Would love @haidut thoughts on this.