Alternative glucose sources to starch?

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I made the FOOLISH mistake of eating potatoes for lunch yesterday and now I'm paying the price in the form of "potato serotonin syndrome". My sleep is also wrecked. Just a reminder to myself to stay far away from these insidious glucose monsters.

I get really sick of smashing white rice 3x every day and I feel like I develop nutrient deficiencies from eating so many empty carbs, alas potatoes are not for me...

Anyone have a suggestion for alternative carb sources?
I throw a spoonful of raw honey with a protein meal or with just a glass of milk and it is very satisfying. Sprouted brown rice has been a good one too, considering RP says sprouted grains are more of a vegetable, without anti-nutrients.
 

InChristAlone

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With potatoes it could be the resistant starches say if it had cooled before you ate it. I have found well cooked potatoes still hot don't feel toxic, but the day after potatoes absolutely do feel toxic if you have harmful gut bacteria eating them up.
 

Sefton10

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I made the FOOLISH mistake of eating potatoes for lunch yesterday and now I'm paying the price in the form of "potato serotonin syndrome". My sleep is also wrecked. Just a reminder to myself to stay far away from these insidious glucose monsters.

I get really sick of smashing white rice 3x every day and I feel like I develop nutrient deficiencies from eating so many empty carbs, alas potatoes are not for me...

Anyone have a suggestion for alternative carb sources?
Have you tried sprouted oats? Really working for me. Potatoes jack me up too.
 

Nomane Euger

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I made the FOOLISH mistake of eating potatoes for lunch yesterday and now I'm paying the price in the form of "potato serotonin syndrome". My sleep is also wrecked. Just a reminder to myself to stay far away from these insidious glucose monsters.

I get really sick of smashing white rice 3x every day and I feel like I develop nutrient deficiencies from eating so many empty carbs, alas potatoes are not for me...

Anyone have a suggestion for alternative carb sources?
Coconut water from young coconut
 

Korven

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I throw a spoonful of raw honey with a protein meal or with just a glass of milk and it is very satisfying. Sprouted brown rice has been a good one too, considering RP says sprouted grains are more of a vegetable, without anti-nutrients.

Thanks maybe I need to get back on the milk and honey train; I've been focused more so on the starches lately. The sprouted grains are a good idea though they are hard to get where I live and I'm definitely too lazy to do it myself LOL.

With potatoes it could be the resistant starches say if it had cooled before you ate it. I have found well cooked potatoes still hot don't feel toxic, but the day after potatoes absolutely do feel toxic if you have harmful gut bacteria eating them up.

I always make sure to eat the potatoes hot but they still hate me ?:nono It would be awesome to have potatoes as a staple nutrient-dense carb but I really get the worst OCD and depressive tendencies after eating them so...

Have you tried sprouted oats? Really working for me. Potatoes jack me up too.

Do you sprout them yourself? I have tried looking for sprouted grains here but they are kind of difficult to find and really expensive. I suppose I could try soaking and sprouting some oat groats, thanks!

Coconut water from young coconut

Bro you have to ship some good coconuts over here because the coconuts/coconut water here are either terribly expensive or taste really awful :sob:
 

Sefton10

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Do you sprout them yourself? I have tried looking for sprouted grains here but they are kind of difficult to find and really expensive. I suppose I could try soaking and sprouting some oat groats, thanks!
No I just buy them. This is the brand I get (UK), I think one of the reasons they sit well with me is they are just sprouted and then rolled, whereas most oats are steamed too which means they’re higher in resistant starch. Not cheap compared to just buying oat groats to sprout but not too bad if bought in bulk (and much less hassle).
 
O

oldfriend

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I always make sure to eat the potatoes hot but they still hate me ?:nono It would be awesome to have potatoes as a staple nutrient-dense carb but I really get the worst OCD and depressive tendencies after eating them so...
That's interesting that people in this thread react so badly to potato. Potato is an odd one, and the method of preparation and/or what it's combined with does make a difference IME. I do boiled potatoes, either in a soup/chowder with some butter, cheddar cheese and a few veggies (onion, celery, carrot, sometimes spinach or asparagus) or mixed with some butter and cheese and fried in a foreman grill. I do fine with French fries too but only eat them on occasion (Buffalo Wild Wings fries in beef tallow : D )
I throw a spoonful of raw honey with a protein meal or with just a glass of milk and it is very satisfying. Sprouted brown rice has been a good one too, considering RP says sprouted grains are more of a vegetable, without anti-nutrients.
Peat said that? That's interesting. I've been making a whole wheat bread with active yeast and 3:1 bread to whole flour using sprouted spelt. It's really good. My gut seems to love it, it's satiating and gives me energy for hours.
 
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That's interesting that people in this thread react so badly to potato. Potato is an odd one, and the method of preparation and/or what it's combined with does make a difference IME. I do boiled potatoes, either in a soup/chowder with some butter, cheddar cheese and a few veggies (onion, celery, carrot, sometimes spinach or asparagus) or mixed with some butter and cheese and fried in a foreman grill. I do fine with French fries too but only eat them on occasion (Buffalo Wild Wings fries in beef tallow : D )

Peat said that? That's interesting. I've been making a whole wheat bread with active yeast and 3:1 bread to whole flour using sprouted spelt. It's really good. My gut seems to love it, it's satiating and gives me energy for hours.

Here is a collection of what RP said about sprouted grains, posted by schultz in another thread.....

RAY PEAT: All seeds, as far as I know, have some toxic effects. Many of them are built in by the plantto protect their offspring. And once the sprouting has begun, the seed detoxifies those intrinsic chemicals, especially if it's very well cooked, and then it becomes nutritious."

and here...

SOUND ENGINEER: Are you still there, caller? Well, the line is still open. Well, Dr. Peat, what about sprouted grains and sourdough. Does the pre-fermentation help?

RAY PEAT: Yeah. Just the soaking process, activating the enzymes in the dough, even if it’s ground and can’t sprout, 8 to 12 hours of being moistened allows the enzymes to activate the same process that would happen in sprouting. And so, the phytic acid, for example, is broken down into N-acetyl and phosphate and gluten is partly broken down, so that if you soak the bread too long, you don’t get a white fluffy loaf. You get sort of a crumbly…

and here...

RAY PEAT: Yeah.And it happens that phosphate, which you get in the grains, this might really be a part of why the fiber is carcinogenic from grains because seeds and grains and nuts are so rich in phosphorus and phosphate stimulates the breakdown of these soluble or indigestible fibers by bacteria and calcium blocks that phosphorolysis of the fibers by bacteria. And so,a high calcium, low phosphate diet goes with saturated fats in suppressing the toxic effects of the starches.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And what about fermenting grains, like traditional sourdough bread?

RAY PEAT: Yeah. That digests it. The longer it digests, the more it turns into a sprout. And the sprout is basically a little sugar and mostly proteins and water, where the starch is mostly indigestible proteins and starches with a high phosphate content.
 

aliml

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CCK is a hormone released in the gut in response to a high-fat meal. I am interested in CCK because it is linked to post-meal fatigue, IBS, and lectin sensitivity. This may suggest that people who have high CCK levels and are lectin sensitive will do better not eating too much fat in their diet.

Highest Ranking, Satiety Inducing Foods (which will be correlated with CCK release):
  • Potatoes 323% Contains Pot-II protein, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Fish 225% High in protein, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Oatmeal 209% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Oranges 202% High in pectin, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Apples 197% High in pectin, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Brown Pasta 188% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Beef 176%. High in protein, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Baked Beans 168% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Grapes 162% High in pectin, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Whole-Grain Bread 157% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release.
People with IBS are more likely to release too much CCK (a gut hormone) in response to a fat-rich meal [1].

CCK is the culprit that causes gas soon after eating [1].

This might be because CCK activates the vagus nerve or because CCK directly interacts with the hypothalamus to stimulate the flow of your colon, which will cause gas [5].

CCK increases bloating and decreases stomach acid secretion, which slows digestion. It decreases stomach acid by increasing bicarbonate [6].

Regarding IBS, CCK causes gut pain hypersensitivity [7].

In humans, CCK causes nausea and anxiety. In fact, in the research, it’s used to induce panic attacks in people [8].

CCK activates your stress response [9].

Specifically, CCK increases CRH (bad stress hormone) [10] prolactin (anxiety hormone), ACTH and cortisol [11]. More ACTH is released in response to CCK when CRH is present [12]. It also increases aldosterone secretion, which will increase blood pressure and cause salt retention [13].

If your stress response is activated chronically (chronic CRH), that makes the anxiety effects of CCK worse and this leads to ‘hypersensitive emotional circuitry’. This is the case even if CRH isn’t elevated at the time of CCK secretion [15].

More interestingly, CCK causes sleepiness/fatigue (despite the fact that it activates orexin) [16].

CCK inhibits hypothalamic noradrenaline transmission, which is a plausible mechanism for CCK’s fatigue-inducing an appetite-suppressing effect [17].
 

InChristAlone

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CCK is a hormone released in the gut in response to a high-fat meal. I am interested in CCK because it is linked to post-meal fatigue, IBS, and lectin sensitivity. This may suggest that people who have high CCK levels and are lectin sensitive will do better not eating too much fat in their diet.

Highest Ranking, Satiety Inducing Foods (which will be correlated with CCK release):
  • Potatoes 323% Contains Pot-II protein, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Fish 225% High in protein, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Oatmeal 209% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Oranges 202% High in pectin, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Apples 197% High in pectin, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Brown Pasta 188% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Beef 176%. High in protein, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Baked Beans 168% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Grapes 162% High in pectin, shown to stimulate CCK release
  • Whole-Grain Bread 157% High in soluble fiber, shown to stimulate CCK release.
People with IBS are more likely to release too much CCK (a gut hormone) in response to a fat-rich meal [1].

CCK is the culprit that causes gas soon after eating [1].

This might be because CCK activates the vagus nerve or because CCK directly interacts with the hypothalamus to stimulate the flow of your colon, which will cause gas [5].

CCK increases bloating and decreases stomach acid secretion, which slows digestion. It decreases stomach acid by increasing bicarbonate [6].

Regarding IBS, CCK causes gut pain hypersensitivity [7].

In humans, CCK causes nausea and anxiety. In fact, in the research, it’s used to induce panic attacks in people [8].

CCK activates your stress response [9].

Specifically, CCK increases CRH (bad stress hormone) [10] prolactin (anxiety hormone), ACTH and cortisol [11]. More ACTH is released in response to CCK when CRH is present [12]. It also increases aldosterone secretion, which will increase blood pressure and cause salt retention [13].

If your stress response is activated chronically (chronic CRH), that makes the anxiety effects of CCK worse and this leads to ‘hypersensitive emotional circuitry’. This is the case even if CRH isn’t elevated at the time of CCK secretion [15].

More interestingly, CCK causes sleepiness/fatigue (despite the fact that it activates orexin) [16].

CCK inhibits hypothalamic noradrenaline transmission, which is a plausible mechanism for CCK’s fatigue-inducing an appetite-suppressing effect [17].
Selfhacked is very reductionist looking only at how one chemical gets activated by certain foods will lead you down a path of misery. Only able to eat certain foods the rest of your life!
 

Peachy

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Glucose is a reactive aldehyde which combines with body proteins. Such as HbA1c. In moderation animals have evolved to limit the damage from glycosylation. But don't push it. There is no dietary requirement for sugars or carbs.
My HbA1c went down after a year of significantly increasing my sugar intake. My dad who has diabetes 2 increased sugars during the same time period and his stayed the same. I think it’s more about keeping it stable - not low.
 

jdr75bulldog

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Not to derail the thread but me and a lot of other people on this forum have had serious issues after long-term ketogenic diets -- I would definitely advice against it.
I second this motion! I'm a 46 year old insulin dependent (LADA) diabetic. Although low carb and intermittent fasting worked for awhile, things turned and all I ended up with was shitty sleep, low energy and rollercoaster blood sugars. Everyone is different but the increase in fat was not good on my system, for sure. Since adopting this pro-metabolic or pro-bioenergetic lifestyle and not being apprehensive about adding fruit and honey to my diet, I've reduced my insulin and have increased energy.
 

ww3not4me

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Potatoe Starch used to be sold in these tiny creamer like cups as a diet aid. The idea was that that little creamer size cup of liquid patatoe starch if taken before a meal would trigger CCK and increase your level of satiety(sp). Never tried it though seemed too gimiky to me!
 

ww3not4me

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I second this motion! I'm a 46 year old insulin dependent (LADA) diabetic. Although low carb and intermittent fasting worked for awhile, things turned and all I ended up with was shitty sleep, low energy and rollercoaster blood sugars. Everyone is different but the increase in fat was not good on my system, for sure. Since adopting this pro-metabolic or pro-bioenergetic lifestyle and not being apprehensive about adding fruit and honey to my diet, I've reduced my insulin and have increased energy.
Good for you. I think a lot of people over do the fat intake when doing low carb and the fats taken in are seldom good healthy fats. I am trying to reverse my insulin dependence. I am type ii but prior to having Covid-19 I was off all medications and had reversed my diabetes. So I am reading Ray Peats stuff.
 

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