Allithiamine (TTFD) Powder Group Buy

loess

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Sep 22, 2013
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I've been taking niacinamide for a little while now and am seeing powerful results. In the meantime I've been reading recent discussions here about the effects of supplementing thiamine (B1) in tandem with niacinamide (as well as B6). It seems that the safest and most bioavailable form of fat soluble thiamine is tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) in the form of allithiamine (thanks to haidut for pointing that out).

The only allithiamine product that seems to be available is made by Ecological Formulas and comes in capsule form. Ingredients in addition to allithiamine are: dicalcium phosphate, magnesium stearate, silicon dioxide, and gelatin. I'm not a big fan of excipients and if I can, I usually try and avoid them. I called Ecological Formulas and they're willing to sell me 250 grams of the bulk allithiamine powder for around $200. If I've done the math right, in addition to being free of the excipients, I'd be getting a lot more of the product for my $ by buying the bulk powder.

250 grams = 200,000 mg. haidut, you said you take around 1500 mg three times daily (I realize this number would differ slightly for each individual as one dialed in the right amount for one's needs). But using that dose as an average, that's 4500 mg per day, so 250 grams is around 44 days worth of allithiamine. Contrast that against buying the retail product of 250 capsules (50 mg each) at a price that seems to hover between $40-$50, and you can see that it's a way better deal to buy a whole lot of powder at once.

So what I'm getting at is: is anyone interested in a group buy on this allithiamine? I'd be willing to facilitate it, just need to know how much people want. I'm waiting on the supplier to see if they can tell me if there are any additional substances in the powder other than the allithiamine. My guess is that the dicalcium phosphate is in there, but that's no big deal to me. I'm more looking to avoid the other excipients in the capsules.
 

haidut

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Loess, in my other post I explained how there is a misconception that a person needs the fat soluble thiamine analogs b/c thiamine hydrochloride is somehow inferior. A study I posted shows that this is not the case and in fact, 1500mg of thiamine hydrochloride is very well absorbed and achieves very high plasma concentrations. It also happens to be dirt cheap. You can buy thiamine hydrochloride USP for couple of dollars per pound. That price is hard to beat I think.
Finally, I saw this post by accident. If I hadn't read it, I would not have known that you are asking me a question. Since you are the author of the post, there is no way for me to get notified when it first gets posted. So, in the future if you have something addressed to me just drop me a PM please so I know to go read the post.
Btw, I have taken TTFD and it is fine but there is no justification for its higher price.
Just my 2c.
 

loess

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hadut, my apologies - looking at it again, I definitely did not read your other post closely enough and consequently mischaracterized your analysis of the various thiamines. Just got excited about TTFD and ran off Googling. I also made a typo up there: 250g = 250,000mg (not 200,000 mg).

I have read reports of nausea by those using thiamine HCl intravenously. Perhaps the problem is due to the hydrochloride, and not the thiamine (I didn't pass chemistry with flying colors in high school, so this may be simplifying things beyond the way they actually work). I will hunt down a bag of thiamine HCl and give it a try. I'd still like to compare with the allithiamine but not for $200 unless people are willing to split the cost with me. I guess I could get the 50 capsule bottle of allithiamine from Ecological Formulas but you really don't get very much for the price.
 

haidut

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loess said:
hadut, my apologies - looking at it again, I definitely did not read your other post closely enough and consequently mischaracterized your analysis of the various thiamines. Just got excited about TTFD and ran off Googling. I also made a typo up there: 250g = 250,000mg (not 200,000 mg).

I have read reports of nausea by those using thiamine HCl intravenously. Perhaps the problem is due to the hydrochloride, and not the thiamine (I didn't pass chemistry with flying colors in high school, so this may be simplifying things beyond the way they actually work). I will hunt down a bag of thiamine HCl and give it a try. I'd still like to compare with the allithiamine but not for $200 unless people are willing to split the cost with me. I guess I could get the 50 capsule bottle of allithiamine from Ecological Formulas but you really don't get very much for the price.

I have taken TTFD and in high doses (1g and above) it did give me nausea. So, if I were you I'd try both. Ultimately, we're trying to balance price with what works best. So, if TTFD is is what works for you then so be it.
 

loess

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haidut said:
You can buy thiamine hydrochloride USP for couple of dollars per pound. That price is hard to beat I think.

Hmm. I can't find thiamine hydrochloride powder for any less than $30/lb ($64 per kg sold here and here). I don't mean to ask you to do my shopping for me, but I'm a total penny-pincher and am pretty adept at sniffing out the cheapest sources available when it comes to just about anything I buy on the internet. Where are you finding it for couple bucks per pound?
 

haidut

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loess said:
haidut said:
You can buy thiamine hydrochloride USP for couple of dollars per pound. That price is hard to beat I think.

Hmm. I can't find thiamine hydrochloride powder for any less than $30/lb ($64 per kg sold here and here). I don't mean to ask you to do my shopping for me, but I'm a total penny-pincher and am pretty adept at sniffing out the cheapest sources available when it comes to just about anything I buy on the internet. Where are you finding it for couple bucks per pound?


I should have clarified that I can get it for that price b/c I order from companies SigmaAldrich and Fischer Scientific, but you need to have a company to order from those firms. I get discount on some things and thiamine is under $10 per pound for me, but obviously not many people would be in the same situation as me. The cheapest I was able to find otherwise I think was 1 pound of thiamine mononitrate (cheaper than hydrochloride) for about $20. With very high dosages like mine of 3g-4g a day that should still last for several months.
Sorry about the confusion.
 

loess

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I see, thanks for explaining. My father has an ear/nose/throat clinic, so I suppose it might be possible for me to either go through him or one of the pharmacists that he's linked with who probably have that kind of access to supply companies. But going that route would be a whole can of worms and I think I would rather Peat quietly for now.
 
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You can find 25 grams Sulbuthiamine for 22 bucks in some places; it's primarily a nootropic, though.
 

ddjd

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I've been taking niacinamide for a little while now and am seeing powerful results. In the meantime I've been reading recent discussions here about the effects of supplementing thiamine (B1) in tandem with niacinamide (as well as B6). It seems that the safest and most bioavailable form of fat soluble thiamine is tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD) in the form of allithiamine (thanks to haidut for pointing that out).

The only allithiamine product that seems to be available is made by Ecological Formulas and comes in capsule form. Ingredients in addition to allithiamine are: dicalcium phosphate, magnesium stearate, silicon dioxide, and gelatin. I'm not a big fan of excipients and if I can, I usually try and avoid them. I called Ecological Formulas and they're willing to sell me 250 grams of the bulk allithiamine powder for around $200. If I've done the math right, in addition to being free of the excipients, I'd be getting a lot more of the product for my $ by buying the bulk powder.

250 grams = 200,000 mg. haidut, you said you take around 1500 mg three times daily (I realize this number would differ slightly for each individual as one dialed in the right amount for one's needs). But using that dose as an average, that's 4500 mg per day, so 250 grams is around 44 days worth of allithiamine. Contrast that against buying the retail product of 250 capsules (50 mg each) at a price that seems to hover between $40-$50, and you can see that it's a way better deal to buy a whole lot of powder at once.

So what I'm getting at is: is anyone interested in a group buy on this allithiamine? I'd be willing to facilitate it, just need to know how much people want. I'm waiting on the supplier to see if they can tell me if there are any additional substances in the powder other than the allithiamine. My guess is that the dicalcium phosphate is in there, but that's no big deal to me. I'm more looking to avoid the other excipients in the capsules.
What's the deal with Benfothiamine?
 

Johnathan5544

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Oct 8, 2018
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Ali Baba. Cost around 100 USD for 100ml if I recall correctly. Still have 99ml of it. Some of the sellers selling thiamine di phosphate aka cocarboxylase have it but dont advertise it. There are a lot of chemicals not advertised on there. I have 250g of thiamine di phosphate too. Cocarboxylase is on iherb too. Better off looking up a food high in thiamine on nutritiondata, and eating that though.
 

ddjd

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Ali Baba. Cost around 100 USD for 100ml if I recall correctly. Still have 99ml of it. Some of the sellers selling thiamine di phosphate aka cocarboxylase have it but dont advertise it. There are a lot of chemicals not advertised on there. I have 250g of thiamine di phosphate too. Cocarboxylase is on iherb too. Better off looking up a food high in thiamine on nutritiondata, and eating that though.
what do you mean TTFD is not the real Allithiamine?
are you still taking your liquid allithiamine?
 

ddjd

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fyi for anyone looking to source raw powder form, these are the alternative names for Allithiamine, Fursultiamine seems to be the most used one :

Fursultiamine, Adventan, Alinamin-F, Benlipoid, Bevitol Lipophil, Judolor, thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide (TTFD)
 

amz

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Feb 5, 2021
Messages
6
I’m definitely interested in buying TTFD powder.

@haidut , I can assure you that, at least for dry beriberi symptoms, no other form works. The only other form of b1 that has a weak effect on me, is benfothiamine- it helps with peripheral neuropathy. Yet, my cognitive, neurological and depersonalization symptoms are untouched.
I don’t know why allithiamine works and the other forms don’t work for me, at the same dosages and for the same duration.

In 2017 I took thiamine HCL, 500 mg per day for a month. No effect whatsoever.

In November 2020 I took allithiamine, 150 mg per day for two weeks.
All my symptoms improved by 80% - POTS and dysautonomia, memory and cognitive function, derealisation/depersonalization, muscle weakness and ability to climb up the stairs, severe dryness of skin (feet), a deep wound from August 2019 that hadn’t healed completely in more than a year finally healed. My chronic intractable light intolerance and migraine for 2 bloody years, years spent in bed in total darkness, improved by 50%.
All these after just 2 weeks. Unbelievable for me at the time.

I had literally given up any hope of getting out of bed, ever. I had decided not to buy and try supplements and treatments anymore, because nothing worked. For 4 years I wasted thousands of euros on everything imaginable, including allopathic and herbal treatment for chronic Lyme disease (this particular one helped a bit, but didn’t touch my neuro symptoms).

But I listened to Elliot Overton’s YouTube videos, and decided that this would be the last time I throw money out the window for a supplement. I could just lose 20 bucks.

What I do besides allithiamine :
- low oxalate diet= low vegetables intake (after 30 years of vegetarian diet).
- Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, B2, and other minerals
- l methionine for lowering histamines.

increasing allithiamine to 500 mg/day also helps me get rid of insomnia.
 

mad539

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Joined
Dec 3, 2020
Messages
35
I’m definitely interested in buying TTFD powder.

@haidut , I can assure you that, at least for dry beriberi symptoms, no other form works. The only other form of b1 that has a weak effect on me, is benfothiamine- it helps with peripheral neuropathy. Yet, my cognitive, neurological and depersonalization symptoms are untouched.
I don’t know why allithiamine works and the other forms don’t work for me, at the same dosages and for the same duration.

In 2017 I took thiamine HCL, 500 mg per day for a month. No effect whatsoever.

In November 2020 I took allithiamine, 150 mg per day for two weeks.
All my symptoms improved by 80% - POTS and dysautonomia, memory and cognitive function, derealisation/depersonalization, muscle weakness and ability to climb up the stairs, severe dryness of skin (feet), a deep wound from August 2019 that hadn’t healed completely in more than a year finally healed. My chronic intractable light intolerance and migraine for 2 bloody years, years spent in bed in total darkness, improved by 50%.
All these after just 2 weeks. Unbelievable for me at the time.

I had literally given up any hope of getting out of bed, ever. I had decided not to buy and try supplements and treatments anymore, because nothing worked. For 4 years I wasted thousands of euros on everything imaginable, including allopathic and herbal treatment for chronic Lyme disease (this particular one helped a bit, but didn’t touch my neuro symptoms).

But I listened to Elliot Overton’s YouTube videos, and decided that this would be the last time I throw money out the window for a supplement. I could just lose 20 bucks.

What I do besides allithiamine :
- low oxalate diet= low vegetables intake (after 30 years of vegetarian diet).
- Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, B2, and other minerals
- l methionine for lowering histamines.

increasing allithiamine to 500 mg/day also helps me get rid of insomnia.

Really great to hear your improved so much on TTFD. That gives me hope that maybe i can get over my derealization. I can't imagine finally feeling normal again.

I'm currently trying out TTFD, bought directly as Thiamax from Overtons company. Can you tell me about the side effects you got from taking it in the first times?
I noticed that i get stomach cramps, bloating and constipation from it. Did you get something like that?

Maybe it is from the disulfide-part of TTFD? Overton talks about that in his articles here. I asked someone from the company, but they didn't respond yet.

And i'm also interested in buying TTFD powder.
 

amz

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Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Messages
6
Hey Mad539.

If you keep taking allithiamin + the rest of the vitamin and minerals Elliot talks about, your derealization will be gone.

The first time I don't know if I noticed any side effects, except that my SIBO got slightly worse (it's known that a lot of thiamine can cause constipation; every thiamine I tried during my SIBO-C/dysautonomia symptoms gave me more constipation - the last thing I needed). I solved it by avoiding much more carefully the oxalate +fiber rich foods and trying to eat small portions of food. My transit is highly influenced by oxalates in the foods plus certain high FODMAP foods (garlic, onion..etc).
I also started taking a st john's wort supplement (in Germany there's only one supplement that constantly meets the standard for the active ingredients - Neuroplant), because constipation is connected to serotonin receptors (not working enough). Basically, I tried to replicate what Resolor does for SIBO patients.

But that cleared when I started taking in magnesium glycinate and calcium citrate + a B Complex supplement that has most b vitamins in their active forms.

The effects are definitely dose dependent. I know that Dr. Lonsdale and E. Overton talk about 300 mg/day, but I need 600 mg/day in order to recover.
What I noticed is this: if I increase my Allithiamine dosage and don't increase the rest of the supplements accordingly, I start feeling worse.
When I moved up to 450 mg/day, I noticed strange chest/heart sensations, so I added in potassium citrate 200mgx3/day.
So, now at 600 mg (12 capsules x 50 mg) allithiamine taken in 4 doses, I need to take 3 capsules per day of my B complex in order to avoid having strange sensations in my chest and generally feeling worse/stagnating.

These are my dosages. If you read Dr. Lonsdale's book, he says that the dose is highly individual and gives some examples (you can find the book on scribd).
I am female, weigh 55 kg, I'm 165 cm tall, I've always had some level of health issues (dark circles below my eyes since I was born, couldn't gain enough weight in the first year of life, etc). I didn't eat meat until I was 20 years old (and afterwards I ate only when served by other people, never at home). My poor vegetarian diet lead to multiple deficiencies that have never been addressed.
My point: you have to pay attention to what your body needs, your personal health history and adjust your intake accordingly.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more info.
 
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