Allithiamine Experience / Could anyone recommend a better B1 Supplement?

[Peatness]

If it was a healing crisis I should keep going I guess . Its not even worth beeing called crisis . I just notice more dark circles and my hair seems to be more brittle and prone to falling out and a little girl irritation , which I didnt get with the first dosage btw ,so maybe it is a healing crisis .
But it also might be the silicon dioxide or just feeding the wrong bacteria .

If ben sends me his product we will know. I'm really happy about that, since thiamax seems to be sold out everywhere I looked.
I was already considering TPP .

It is possible it is all these things. I would not continue with it because of the silicon dioxide. It may also be oxalate dumping.

 

[Mauritio]

It is possible it is all these things. I would not continue with it because of the silicon dioxide. It may also be oxalate dumping.

Yeah might be better ,although I do want to keep the benefits . I think I'll stop for a few days and see if the symptoms subside .
Maybe I'll go back to good old thiamine HCL ...


Here's someone from amazon who had a better experience with thiamax :

"Has a slight garlic flavor that can come back up your throat for about 20 minutes following ingestion. It isn’t nearly as bad as taking Ecological Formulas allithiamine which has a strong garlic flavor that can come back up for hours."

 

[Dr. B]

How much thiamine HCL did you take?

I also smell like sulfur after taking allithiamine and it feels kind of "toxic" for lack of a better word.

I much prefer thiamine HCL but I think you need to take like 2 grams to match 100 mg of allithiamine.

do all the thiamines besides hcl and mononitrate have some form of sulfur in them?
should we go for the hcl form if looking to avoid sulfur. mononitrate maybe has "nitrates" which would also need to be avoided
sulfur is in processed foods, and iirc white sugar or salt could also be bleached using sulfur dioxide?

 

[Texon]

I'm getting great benefits from allithiamine, but I'm starting to think that it might do something in my gut. Like some minor irritation. Or maybe the sulfide is feeding the sulfur eating bacteria . No idea , it's just a theory.

Did anybody have better results from switching to thiamax ? I'm starting to think the irritation might come from all the bad fillers in ecological formulas allithiamine...

I found out the hard way the gut reaction is very real and nothing to be taken lightly.

 

[Texon]

This product contains silica dioxide. Have you looked into your molybdenum status? There is a post on this but I can’t remember who posted it.

If you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it.

 

[Texon]

Keep your dose low and first and consider the TTFD version.

f you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it.

 

[Texon]

Oh... I thought I was the only one getting that strong sulfur smell.

And yeah, I also felt a bit uncomfortable on my 1st try of Allithiamine; kind of like a very minor anaphylactic reaction.

[I was actually still 'Carnivore' at that time, and I took it on my cheat meal, basically my cheat meal was just adding potatoes to my steak... so I guess being on the Keto/Carnivore state for a long while increased my intolerance to it.]

And thanks for sharing, I'll keep an eye (nose out) on that sulfur smell when I get to try Thiamax (or any TTFD).

f you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it.

 

[Texon]

not stomache pain but for an hour or so i have this wierd taste in my mouth coming from the stomache. Realy unpleasant and annyoing.

Also benefital cognitive effects like more focus etc. maybe last 1-2,5 hours and after that i get a realy bad crash ... a little like headache but more like a energy/sugar crash where i can barely listen or keep my eyes open for a duration of 5-15 minutes.

taking it with magnesium/other b vitamins doesnt make much of a difference in the way i feel with it.

If you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it. It may or may not cause a similar reaction.

 

[Texon]

Thanks for the epsom salts tip; I didn't know that the intolerance to sulfur comes from a deficiency. Have epsom salts, will soak.

Although I understand the hesitancy to suggest a "better" thiamine, it is known that there are fewer adverse reactions when taking thiamine hcl than when taking the newer synthetic thiamines like TTFD. One of Elliot Overton's suggestions to overcome the negative reactions caused by TTFD is to take thiamine hcl for a while instead of taking the TTFD. I believe that the issue was glutathione deficiency causing the problem when taking TTFD. (TTFD requires glutathione to do its chemical process.) My understanding is that thiamine hcl improves glutathione levels by improving oxidative metabolism which results in improved cellular energy. Glutathione is critically important for health.

As people age, they accumulate more and more heavy metals like lead, cadmium, aluminum, etc. Heavy metals bind/inactivate glutathione causing a deficiency in it. Heavy metals (lead was singled out) block thiamine function. I have a history of heavy metals toxicity and have been chelated with IV EDTA many times. EDTA doesn't work for mercury or very well for aluminum. I think that this is the reason the TTFD thiamine was a bust for me.

Very interesting about glutathione and it's relation to standard thiamine hcl. If you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it. May have the same sulfur issue though.

 

[artist]

I couldn’t tolerate significant amounts of thiamine (like basically any amount of TTFD or Benfotiamine) until i supplemented manganese. I’m sure this doesn’t apply to everyone but if you’ve been on a “ray peat diet” for a long time there is a non-zero possibility you have a manganese deficiency. Now I’m taking about a quarter of Thiamax (25mg) a day and it seems to be going okay.

 

[mostlylurking]

Very interesting about glutathione and it's relation to standard thiamine hcl. If you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it. May have the same sulfur issue though.

I got the information about TTFD and glutathione and improving glutathione with thiamine hcl from Elliot Overton; he has a video about it. I think it's this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DxvSUEVT_4&list=PLZPlb2-Xf5TzYhS2h-bXD4q8TBWRjub-D&index=14



also there's this discussion: Elliot Overton- TTFD And GSH

 

[Texon]

I got the information about TTFD and glutathione and improving glutathione with thiamine hcl from Elliot Overton; he has a video about it. I think it's this one:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DxvSUEVT_4&list=PLZPlb2-Xf5TzYhS2h-bXD4q8TBWRjub-D&index=14



also there's this discussion: Elliot Overton- TTFD And GSH

Thanks!

 

[Dr. B]

I couldn’t tolerate significant amounts of thiamine (like basically any amount of TTFD or Benfotiamine) until i supplemented manganese. I’m sure this doesn’t apply to everyone but if you’ve been on a “ray peat diet” for a long time there is a non-zero possibility you have a manganese deficiency. Now I’m taking about a quarter of Thiamax (25mg) a day and it seems to be going okay.

even thiamine hcl? is there some sort of interaction with thiamine utilizing manganese or something?
that opens up a can of worms because manganese depletes or increases the need for copper and iron.
coconut water and pineapple juice, and to a lesser extent banannas, are great sources for manganese. if lower calories are a concern then coconut water is the absolute best, at 30 calories per cup and iirc either 0.625 mg manganese or 1.3 mg manganese per 8oz. Pineapple juice was also a similar amount.

im not sure if liver or other foods contain manganese.

Very interesting about glutathione and it's relation to standard thiamine hcl. If you have any kind of sensitivity to the alliums aka garlic and onions etc. This is likely the issue with allithiamine. Lipothiamine is another form of fat soluble TTFD that has a very small amount of alpha lipoic acid in it. May have the same sulfur issue though.

does allithiamine have amounts of allium similar to garlic and onion?
and is this an antibiotic like effect of the alliums or something else? i have heard garlic is a strong natural antibiotic, not sure about onion.

I couldn’t tolerate significant amounts of thiamine (like basically any amount of TTFD or Benfotiamine) until i supplemented manganese. I’m sure this doesn’t apply to everyone but if you’ve been on a “ray peat diet” for a long time there is a non-zero possibility you have a manganese deficiency. Now I’m taking about a quarter of Thiamax (25mg) a day and it seems to be going okay.

wasnt there a writeup on here about benfotiamine actually being worse than thiamine hcl and allithiamine for some reason? maybe it was that benfo is synthetic.

 

[artist]

@Dr. B manganese is required to store thiamine. Benfotiamine is thought by some not to cross the BBB but it’s increasingly looking likely that all three (hcl, ttfd, bento) do cross it. In my case I think manganese was my most severe deficiency which may be why I reacted the way I did. Maple syrup is the best (Peatish) dietary source but I just supplement 2mg a day.

 

[Dr. B]

@Dr. B manganese is required to store thiamine. Benfotiamine is thought by some not to cross the BBB but it’s increasingly looking likely that all three (hcl, ttfd, bento) do cross it. In my case I think manganese was my most severe deficiency which may be why I reacted the way I did. Maple syrup is the best (Peatish) dietary source but I just supplement 2mg a day.

how much manganese is in maple syrup? does Peat like maple syrup.
coconut water is one of the best

 

[artist]

@Dr. B just Google it!!

I finally mixed up Thiamax with water in a dropper so I can do 3mg dosages. The stuff is intense. Obviously megadosing is one thing but I’m just trying to correct a deficiency and relative to my trials w other B vitamins I’d be surprised if TTFD didn’t absorb like 80-100%. Less is more in my experience.

 

[Peatress]

Does anyone use this product, if so how long does it last in the fridge? It says 3 months on the bottle - has anyone used it beyond that recommended time frame?

Vitamin B1 Thiamine Pyrophosphate

 

[Ben.]

Does anyone use this product, if so how long does it last in the fridge? It says 3 months on the bottle - has anyone used it beyond that recommended time frame?

Vitamin B1 Thiamine Pyrophosphate

View attachment 52375

Yes and i find myself always in the situation of it being beyond the 3 months before i manage to finish it. I feel it tastes more intense... wether it loses efficiency that way i dont know. I unfortunately never noticed to much effects from it. Hoewever i never went beyond 1-2 full droppers. I was wondering before i "trowh" it away or have it go "bad" even further i might try to use it up by simply taking big dosages from it. Similar to hcl for example i wonder if one only realy notices effects from it upon taking it at a certain treshhold.

Anecdotes over thiamin suprise me alot. Some have hcl working for them, others have benfo working, some others allithiamine and for some the phosphorylated one. Other times its a certain amount or some cofactors that does the trick. I'd love to replicate the energy/brain capacity i had once with sulbutiamine minus the headaches that came afterwards.

 

[Peatress]

Yes and i find myself always in the situation of it being beyond the 3 months before i manage to finish it. I feel it tastes more intense... wether it loses efficiency that way i dont know. I unfortunately never noticed to much effects from it. Hoewever i never went beyond 1-2 full droppers. I was wondering before i "trowh" it away or have it go "bad" even further i might try to use it up by simply taking big dosages from it. Similar to hcl for example i wonder if one only realy notices effects from it upon taking it at a certain treshhold.

Anecdotes over thiamin suprise me alot. Some have hcl working for them, others have benfo working, some others allithiamine and for some the phosphorylated one. Other times its a certain amount or some cofactors that does the trick. I'd love to replicate the energy/brain capacity i had once with sulbutiamine minus the headaches that came afterwards.

Thanks. I was concerned with the product going bad in the fridge. Don't want to poison myself. I don't use more than a few drops a day so the bottle lasts beyond 3 months (1/2 the bottle). I don't experience dramatic effects from it either. Sulbutiamine is in a different league - I don't do well on it - no headaches but I can feel it raises adrenaline. I think being replete in magnesium and potassium helps with thiamine tolerance.

 

[Dr. B]

Thanks. I was concerned with the product going bad in the fridge. Don't want to poison myself. I don't use more than a few drops a day so the bottle lasts beyond 3 months (1/2 the bottle). I don't experience dramatic effects from it either. Sulbutiamine is in a different league - I don't do well on it - no headaches but I can feel it raises adrenaline. I think being replete in magnesium and potassium helps with thiamine tolerance.

What about merhylene blue perhaps safer than using a vitamin or hormone?