Allergy To HealthNatura Pregnenolone

[energyandstruct]

Haidut is featured on his shows (didn't watch the last one yet btw).

yes i'm aware, but not sure if he uses haidut's products, think he told me he used one of them but I forget. he hadn't tried the tocovit which is what i really wanted his opinion on

 

[DaveFoster]

Interesting that you say Dr. Peat uses progesterone. I had heard him on a podcast say that it shouldn't be used all the time by men, he claims it opposes testosterone. Did he change his mind?

You're assuming that Dr. Peat's "just a man," rather than the God-Emperor incarnate.

On a serious note, in a sufficiently estrogenic context, progesterone supports the function of any tissue, and Dr. Peat's quite old, so he has different needs than, say a young male for instance.

 

[Braveheart]

You're assuming that Dr. Peat's "just a man," rather than the God-Emperor incarnate.

On a serious note, in a sufficiently estrogenic context, progesterone supports the function of any tissue, and Dr. Peat's quite old, so he has different needs than, say a young male for instance.

yes, it's his age....

 

[haidut]

You're assuming that Dr. Peat's "just a man," rather than the God-Emperor incarnate.

On a serious note, in a sufficiently estrogenic context, progesterone supports the function of any tissue, and Dr. Peat's quite old, so he has different needs than, say a young male for instance.

Also, when people have asked him about progesterone and on the recent short Danny podcast about progesterone/DHEA he said to use them together as DHEA would block the anti-androgenic effects of high dose progesterone. He also said, in lower doses progesterone did not cause anti-androgen or libido issues for him. The "safe" limit for males (when progesterone is used on its own) he has been mentioning seems to be around 10mg-15mg daily. Higher doses can also be used but then adding DHEA is needed.

 

[Vinero]

Also, when people have asked him about progesterone and on the recent short Danny podcast about progesterone/DHEA he said to use them together as DHEA would block the anti-androgenic effects of high dose progesterone. He also said, in lower doses progesterone did not cause anti-androgen or libido issues for him. The "safe" limit for males (when progesterone is used on its own) he has been mentioning seems to be around 10mg-15mg daily. Higher doses can also be used but then adding DHEA is needed.

Is there any evidence that progesterone is anti-androgenic? You have posted studies in the past showing oral progesterone actually raises both T and DHT even in very high doses (100mg +).
Oral Progesterone Increases Testosterone And DHT

You also posted a study that progesterone is an androgen agonist.
Progesterone Is Androgenic

The only claim I hear from people and which I experience myself too is that it decreases libido in high doses, which might mean it decreases T.
But androsterone also lowers libido, even stronger than progesterone in my experience, so does that mean that androsterone is anti-androgenic?
I havent seen any actual evidence progesterone is anti-androgenic other than people repeating other people and websites.
Please post any evidence or studies if you have found that progesterone lowers androgens.

 

[haidut]

Is there any evidence that progesterone is anti-androgenic? You have posted studies in the past showing oral progesterone actually raises both T and DHT even in very high doses (100mg +).
Oral Progesterone Increases Testosterone And DHT

You also posted a study that progesterone is an androgen agonist.
Progesterone Is Androgenic

The only claim I hear from people and which I experience myself too is that it decreases libido in high doses, which might mean it decreases T.
But androsterone also lowers libido, even stronger than progesterone in my experience, so does that mean that androsterone is anti-androgenic?
I havent seen any actual evidence progesterone is anti-androgenic other than people repeating other people and websites.
Please post any evidence or studies if you have found that progesterone lowers androgens.

I think most of the "evidence" is just like you said - tied to effects in libido, which DHT/androsterone can also cause. My post was just relaying what Peat said. He also said to one forum member over email that even higher doses of progesterone did not affect his sexual function, but some people reported numb penis and sensitive nipples from higher doses progesterone. So, I just wanted to mention the DHEA as a "balancing" option.

 

[Koveras]

Is there any evidence that progesterone is anti-androgenic? You have posted studies in the past showing oral progesterone actually raises both T and DHT even in very high doses (100mg +).
Oral Progesterone Increases Testosterone And DHT

You also posted a study that progesterone is an androgen agonist.
Progesterone Is Androgenic

The only claim I hear from people and which I experience myself too is that it decreases libido in high doses, which might mean it decreases T.
But androsterone also lowers libido, even stronger than progesterone in my experience, so does that mean that androsterone is anti-androgenic?
I havent seen any actual evidence progesterone is anti-androgenic other than people repeating other people and websites.
Please post any evidence or studies if you have found that progesterone lowers androgens.

Myself and @haidut and others have posted some studies and discussed that higher doses of progesterone are competitive for the 5alpha-reductase enzyme. Progesterone forms 5a-DHP through that pathway. This would reduce the ability of testosterone to form DHT through the same enzyme.

 

[haidut]

Myself and @haidut and others have posted some studies and discussed that higher doses of progesterone are competitive for the 5alpha-reductase enzyme. Progesterone forms 5a-DHP through that pathway. This would reduce the ability of testosterone to form DHT through the same enzyme.

This. Thx.

 

[Epistrophy]

I can send him a few bottles but I don't think he likes endorsing or commenting on products in general. The only one I have seen him comment on directly is the phage probiotics from LEF.

@haidut what is LEF?

 

[Dave Clark]

@haidut what is LEF?

Life Extension Foundation

 

[Travis]

Dr. Peat has spoken about the allergenicity of pregnenolone products currently on the market, and after taking 500 mg pregnenolone orally with ice cream, I had a mild allergic reaction with some sinus congestion.

It's likely that using a solvent that potentiates the effects of a steroid, such as DMSO would lower the effective dose and thus lower the level of allergenicity with a reduction in the offensive material.

There's also the possibility of this being a catatoxic reaction, as pregnenolone clears detoxification pathways in the liver, but I've been taking it for a couple weeks daily with no such reaction.

Has anyone tried Idea Labs DC's StressNon after experiencing allergies with Health Natura's product?

You could try it topically, as the allergen could theoretically be a bit more water-soluble and thus wouldn't penetrate as readily. Although the skin is important, using it to filter trace impurities might not be such . . . could make it even more important! There's always a chance that it's a lipid similar to lipotoxin which is . . . while highly-reactive when adsorbed from the intestinal tract, this normally exists safely on the skin of nearly everyone (small amounts of gram-negative bacteria on the skin is not uncommon). Most every steroid hormone is adsorbed trans-dermally; the only exceptions being the more polar aldosterone and cortisol. Skin penetration rates of steroids is entirely predictable: The ones having more hydroxyl and keto groups are more water-soluble and this penetrate at a slower rates, while the ones like pregnenolone and progesterone penetrate the quickest. If plotted, penetration rate vs polarity would be a nearly straight line. The shape of the molecule appears to matter little, as the seco-steroidal vitamin D₃ is found to penetrate just as well as its ortho-ringed analogues.

 

[Wolf]

No problem using their pregnenolone topically with coco oil, alcohol, and an emulsifier.

 

[DaveFoster]

You could try it topically, as the allergen could theoretically be a bit more water-soluble and thus wouldn't penetrate as readily. Although the skin is important, using it to filter trace impurities might not be such . . . could make it even more important! There's always a chance that it's a lipid similar to lipotoxin which is . . . while highly-reactive when adsorbed from the intestinal tract, this normally exists safely on the skin of nearly everyone (small amounts of gram-negative bacteria on the skin is not uncommon). Most every steroid hormone is adsorbed trans-dermally; the only exceptions being the more polar aldosterone and cortisol. Skin penetration rates of steroids is entirely predictable: The ones having more hydroxyl and keto groups are more water-soluble and this penetrate at a slower rates, while the ones like pregnenolone and progesterone penetrate the quickest. If plotted, penetration rate vs polarity would be a nearly straight line. The shape of the molecule appears to matter little, as the seco-steroidal vitamin D₃ is found to penetrate just as well as its ortho-ringed analogues.

Topically applied pregnenolone definitely has an effect, but the quantity of DMSO in the solvent brings some concerns.

 

[DaveFoster]

Also, when people have asked him about progesterone and on the recent short Danny podcast about progesterone/DHEA he said to use them together as DHEA would block the anti-androgenic effects of high dose progesterone. He also said, in lower doses progesterone did not cause anti-androgen or libido issues for him. The "safe" limit for males (when progesterone is used on its own) he has been mentioning seems to be around 10mg-15mg daily. Higher doses can also be used but then adding DHEA is needed.

So, CortiNon - Liquid Progesterone/DHEA Mix

 

[Frankdee20]

Pregnenalone only gives me negatives like a crash for example if I don’t take enough food with it.

 

[Mossy]

Pregnenalone only gives me negatives like a crash for example if I don’t take enough food with it.

Do you get this crash whether taken orally or topically, without food?

 

[haidut]

So, CortiNon - Liquid Progesterone/DHEA Mix

That's one of the reasons for releasing it actually. A forum user shared some emails Peat had sent him about this combination and I know he has been recommending it for moles and hair growth for years.