All about increasing 5 alpha reductase in the face and tissues for beard growth and masculine facial structure

[Cameron]

Let’s get a discussion on best ways to truly up regulate androgens and 5-ar (in the skin and tissue) primarily the expression in the face. Beard maxing looks maxing and masculine jaw maxing
Results: Testosterone was taken up by both cell types; significant amounts of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone were recovered inside beard cells, but not in scalp cells, whereas androstenedione was identified in both. An unidentified compound was present intracellularly in both cell types, but was not present in the culture medium. 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone was present only in the culture medium of beard cells but androstenedione was present in a similar amount in the medium from both cell types. The presence of other steroids could not be confirmed in either the cell extracts or the culture medium.

Conclusions: The production of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone by beard cells concurs with the poor beard growth in men with 5 alpha-reductase deficiency, supporting our hypothesis that androgens mediate their effects on the hair follicle via the mesenchyme-derived dermal papilla.

Differences in testosterone metabolism by beard and scalp hair follicle dermal papilla cells - PubMed

The production of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone by beard cells concurs with the poor beard growth in men with 5 alpha-reductase deficiency, supporting our hypothesis that androgens mediate their effects on the hair follicle via the mesenchyme-derived dermal papilla.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@haidut @Hans

 

[Hans]

Let’s get a discussion on best ways to truly up regulate androgens and 5-ar (in the skin and tissue) primarily the expression in the face. Beard maxing looks maxing and masculine jaw maxing
Results: Testosterone was taken up by both cell types; significant amounts of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone were recovered inside beard cells, but not in scalp cells, whereas androstenedione was identified in both. An unidentified compound was present intracellularly in both cell types, but was not present in the culture medium. 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone was present only in the culture medium of beard cells but androstenedione was present in a similar amount in the medium from both cell types. The presence of other steroids could not be confirmed in either the cell extracts or the culture medium.

Conclusions: The production of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone by beard cells concurs with the poor beard growth in men with 5 alpha-reductase deficiency, supporting our hypothesis that androgens mediate their effects on the hair follicle via the mesenchyme-derived dermal papilla.

Differences in testosterone metabolism by beard and scalp hair follicle dermal papilla cells - PubMed

The production of 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone by beard cells concurs with the poor beard growth in men with 5 alpha-reductase deficiency, supporting our hypothesis that androgens mediate their effects on the hair follicle via the mesenchyme-derived dermal papilla.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

@haidut @Hans

There are many dietary things that can help, but that takes a long time. The fastest results you'll likely get is by applying test or DHT on the beard area. I've used both androsterone and 11-keto DHT and both work well.

 

[Cameron]

There are many dietary things that can help, but that takes a long time. The fastest results you'll likely get is by applying test or DHT on the beard area. I've used both androsterone and 11-keto DHT and both work well.

I’ve put some androsterone on my soul patch and hairs have darkened but nothing dramatic. 11 keto dht is made in such small amounts in humans I wonder if high topical doses could have a dramatic effect. No papers I’ve seen on 11 keto dht and human 5-ar although it is dht with a longer half life. I guess 11 keto dht is more powerful in theory

 

[Cameron]

There are many dietary things that can help, but that takes a long time. The fastest results you'll likely get is by applying test or DHT on the beard area. I've used both androsterone and 11-keto DHT and both work well.

How much 11 keto dht do you use and topically? Any interesting papers you have on the potency of 11 keto androgens in humans? I’ve started dhea 25mgs a day for increasing tissue androgens

 

[Hans]

How much 11 keto dht do you use and topically? Any interesting papers you have on the potency of 11 keto androgens in humans? I’ve started dhea 25mgs a day for increasing tissue androgens

Just 1 drop on each cheek. 11-keto DHT had the same affinity for the AR than DHT whereas androsterone is a weak androgen.
I was actually wondering if androsterone might not have slight estrogenic effects itself despite being an AI. DHEA has some mild direct estrogenic effects according to 1 or 2 papers.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

I’ve put some androsterone on my soul patch and hairs have darkened but nothing dramatic. 11 keto dht is made in such small amounts in humans I wonder if high topical doses could have a dramatic effect. No papers I’ve seen on 11 keto dht and human 5-ar although it is dht with a longer half life. I guess 11 keto dht is more powerful in theory

Keto-androgens are poorly understood and studied. No publications doesn’t mean much.

If bone tissue can be modulated by topical androgens? Hard to imagine given the penetration issues.

Also, topical androgens will affect every cell it reaches, not only follicles. So you will Experimence skin changes you need to closely observe

 

[Aad]

Put minoxidil on there.

 

[Solace_found]

Just 1 drop on each cheek. 11-keto DHT had the same affinity for the AR than DHT whereas androsterone is a weak androgen.
I was actually wondering if androsterone might not have slight estrogenic effects itself despite being an AI. DHEA has some mild direct estrogenic effects according to 1 or 2 papers.

how did ur beard experiment go? is it fully covered? how long did it take?which do u prefer more 11keto or andro?

 

[Hans]

how did ur beard experiment go? is it fully covered? how long did it take?which do u prefer more 11keto or andro?

I prefer 11-keto since I feel better on it. I got lazy last time and discontinued. I am going at it again now. Only about 3 days in again. It's growing in on its own over time, but it's painstaking slow. The DHT will speed it up.

 

[FitnessMike]

Put minoxidil on there.

did it work for you?, isnt it detrimental to overall health since it goes sistematically?

 

[Cameron]

I ordered some pure raw dht so will try 5-10 mgs sublingual. I was a bit disappointed in androsterone nothing note worthy weak 5 alpha reduced androgen. 11-keto is interesting if the keto group doesn’t have some unknown change in the androgenicity of dht in humans so worth giving that a try. Also has a longer half life so that’s cool. Ultimately dht itself probably has the better effect for well known masculinization changes

 

[Cameron]

did it work for you?, isnt it detrimental to overall health since it goes sistematically?

It made me fatigued and irregular heartbeat not sure it’s worth a few extra pube looking hairs. Dht and ar upregulation would have the best overall effect for looks and health and thick dark dense beard development

 

[Solace_found]

I prefer 11-keto since I feel better on it. I got lazy last time and discontinued. I am going at it again now. Only about 3 days in again. It's growing in on its own over time, but it's painstaking slow. The DHT will speed it up.

ohk dude all the best I will be following u on this one. If it starts working well then I too will jump on it

 

[Peatfan69]

I ordered some pure raw dht so will try 5-10 mgs sublingual. I was a bit disappointed in androsterone nothing note worthy weak 5 alpha reduced androgen. 11-keto is interesting if the keto group doesn’t have some unknown change in the androgenicity of dht in humans so worth giving that a try. Also has a longer half life so that’s cool. Ultimately dht itself probably has the better effect for well known masculinization changes

how are you going to administer it sublingually? seems to only dissolve in 96% ethanol and that stuff burns when you put in your mouth

 

[Hans]

ohk dude all the best I will be following u on this one. If it starts working well then I too will jump on it

 

[Cameron]

how are you going to administer it sublingually? seems to only dissolve in 96% ethanol and that stuff burns when you put in your mouth

I think sublingual powder will do just fine with some fat maybe @haidut can touch on this but he’s posted good content on steroid powders doing just fine absorbing in a raw powder state

 

[Peatfan69]

I think sublingual powder will do just fine with some fat maybe @haidut can touch on this but he’s posted good content on steroid powders doing just fine absorbing in a raw powder state

What type of fat? MCT oil? Good luck

 

[highriderrr]

What abou 11-keto-dht on scalp against allopecia?

 

[Cameron]

Anyone try minoxidil?

 

[jaype]

Anyone try minoxidil?

i did try it a few years ago, it gave me decent gains on my cheeks. Some hairs matured to terminal and some didn't, maybe the results would've been even better if i continued for another year but I started feeling too tired and my skin didn't look as good as before.

Did you try topical dht? I still have a some patches and it doesn't connect fully so I've been looking around for alternatives.