Alcohol Mostly Benign For The Liver, Causing Injury Requires Endotoxin (LPS)

[sladerunner69]

I'm not sure, but the carotenes are cleaved as needed and are under yet another regulatory step (the conversion of retinol to retinoic acid is already under three, which keeps blood levels remarkable constant). A vegan may argue that consuming retinol is less natural and its toxicity stems from that; because like heme iron, the body tends to absorb it at a relatively high and constant rate. The amount stored in the liver is highly variable between people and I don't think consuming liver once a week would lead to higher-than-average levels (although a person could argue that even normal levels are high assuming we evolved consuming carotenes).

Beta carotene has anti anti-thyroid effect though which retinol does not

 

[CoolTweetPete]

I'm not sure, but the carotenes are cleaved as needed and are under yet another regulatory step (the conversion of retinol to retinoic acid is already under three, which keeps blood levels remarkable constant). A vegan may argue that consuming retinol is less natural and its toxicity stems from that; because like heme iron, the body tends to absorb it at a relatively high and constant rate. The amount stored in the liver is highly variable between people and I don't think consuming liver once a week would lead to higher-than-average levels (although a person could argue that even normal levels are high assuming we evolved consuming carotenes).

Hi @Travis

I have seen the liver conversion rate of carotene to retinoic acid as less than 10%, but as you mention, storage and blood regulation are very active processes.

Dr. Peat has said that stored carotene can be estrogenic. Do you have an opinion to that effect?

EDIT: My bad. I thought I was on the last page. @sladerunner69 already made the comment, but not in the form of a question.

 

[Travis]

Hi @Travis

I have seen the liver conversion rate of carotene to retinoic acid as less than 10%, but as you mention, storage and blood regulation are very active processes.

Dr. Peat has said that stored carotene can be estrogenic. Do you have an opinion to that effect?

EDIT: My bad. I thought I was on the last page. @sladerunner69 already made the comment, but not in the form of a question.

The authors of articles I'd read had been under the impression that the intestines also have a carotene-cleavage protein. I know nothing of it's thyroidal effects, but it doesn't appear as if it would compete directly with tyrosine in the thyroid gland. I would have to read the study, as there are many molecule–enzyme interactions that simply do not occur in the body. I had read a study almost a year ago on the curcumin–glyoxalase interaction, but since this molecule is both very poorly absorbed from the intestine and will barely penetrate a cell, there is little reason to suspect that turmeric reduces cancer in that way. More than likely, curcumin owes it's chemostatic potency to it's ability to trap reactive nitrogen species; even if were to actually enter the cell, it has less affinity-for and ability-to-inhibit glyoxylase than cyclooxygenase—also tending to inhibit cancer.

I do know that carotenes are normally found in the bloodstream in similar concentrations to retinol, but don't know what it binds to. As a fatty molecule, this could be a lipoprotein-bound molecule. Although less immediately active than retinol, β-carotene has the potential to become two molecules of vitamin A.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

@Travis Awesome. Thank you for the food for thought.

 

[artist]

I get drunk extremely easy when consuming a high starch diet. During my high starch, low fat experiment I would be loopy and annoying after only one drink.
Even going from moderate consumption of "safer" starches (like white rice), to a starch-free diet, my ability to hold my liquor changes dramatically. I'm a 130 pound sedentary female and I will barely have any buzz after 3 drinks on starch-free. If I actually ate enough protein it'd probably take 5+ drinks for alcohol to seriously affect me!

Ciproheptadine (1mg dosage) prevents hangovers with 100% success rate in my experience, even on high starch. I usually take it right before bed but sometimes before a night of drinking, think it works slightly better with the former strategy and also prevents getting sleepy too early.

 

[Amazoniac]

@haidut - whenever a guru appears apprehensive when it comes to the tiny amounts of ethanol in your products fearing that it might be harm and ful..

• Regression of Dietary Cirrhosis in Rats Fed Alcohol and a “Super Diet”: Evidence of the Nonhepatotoxic Nature of Ethanol | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic
• Recovery from chronic hepatic lesions in rats fed alcohol and a solid super diet | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic
  
• Is ethanol per se hepatotoxic? - ScienceDirect

 

[Amazoniac]

A shaman contacted me about having difficulty accessing the first two links above.

Alcoholic liver disease may be prevented with adequate nutrients - ScienceDirect

"Nanji et al (27) have shown that beef fat (highly saturated) prevents alcohol fatty liver in the rat. This observation clearly shows that nutritional factors interact with ethanol to induce alcoholic fatty liver in the rat."

"Among the nutritional factors implicated as interacting with ethanol to induce alcoholic liver disease are a relatively high intake of saturated fat (7, 30), a low intake of lipotropes (methionine, choline, folate and vitamin B-12) (7, 31), a low energy intake (13), and a low protein intake (7, 31). When either fat or protein is replaced by carbohydrate or when all of the vitamins are eliminated from the 36% liquid ethanol diet the area under the blood ethanol concentration versus time curve (AUC) significantly increases (32). The increase in the AUC means that the blood alcohol concentration is increased over time which would increase the ability of a given ethanol dose to induce alcoholic liver disease."

Spoiler: Ref.

[07] Recovery from chronic hepatic lesions in rats fed alcohol and a solid super diet | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic (above)https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/25/9/881/4733253
[13] Inadequate intake by growing rats of essential nutrients from liquid diets used for chronic alcohol consumption - ScienceDirect
[23] Adequate nutrition abates the effects of a toxic alcohol dose fed to rats for four generations
[27] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1530-0277.1989.tb00276.x
[30] Quantitative relationship between the amount of dietary fat and the severity of the alcoholic fatty liver
[31] Fatty liver produced by dietary deficiencies: its pathogenesis and potentiation by ethanol
[32] Who cares?

Also here (2nd page) they cite the studies:
Alcohol, food factors, and liver disease

 

[haidut]

A shaman contacted me about having difficulty accessing the first two links above.

Alcoholic liver disease may be prevented with adequate nutrients - ScienceDirect

"Nanji et al (27) have shown that beef fat (highly saturated) prevents alcohol fatty liver in the rat. This observation clearly shows that nutritional factors interact with ethanol to induce alcoholic fatty liver in the rat."

"Among the nutritional factors implicated as interacting with ethanol to induce alcoholic liver disease are a relatively high intake of saturated fat (7, 30), a low intake of lipotropes (methionine, choline, folate and vitamin B-12) (7, 31), a low energy intake (13), and a low protein intake (7, 31). When either fat or protein is replaced by carbohydrate or when all of the vitamins are eliminated from the 36% liquid ethanol diet the area under the blood ethanol concentration versus time curve (AUC) significantly increases (32). The increase in the AUC means that the blood alcohol concentration is increased over time which would increase the ability of a given ethanol dose to induce alcoholic liver disease."

Spoiler: Ref.

[07] Recovery from chronic hepatic lesions in rats fed alcohol and a solid super diet | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic (above)
[13] Inadequate intake by growing rats of essential nutrients from liquid diets used for chronic alcohol consumption - ScienceDirect
[23] Adequate nutrition abates the effects of a toxic alcohol dose fed to rats for four generations
[27] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1530-0277.1989.tb00276.x
[30] Quantitative relationship between the amount of dietary fat and the severity of the alcoholic fatty liver
[31] Fatty liver produced by dietary deficiencies: its pathogenesis and potentiation by ethanol
[32] Who cares?

Also here (2nd page) they cite the studies:
Alcohol, food factors, and liver disease

Thanks. The last link from the original 3 you posted does a great review of ethanol toxicity and concluded that simply providing enough protein, carbs and vitamins is able to stop and often reverse alcoholic cirrhosis, even in the face of continued alcohol abuse. In their view, this proves that ethanol toxicity is mainly through nutritional depletion and not direct.

 

[Broken man]

I did, and I will change the title to "benign for the liver" as that is what the study focused on. The current title implies alcohol is systemically benign, which I did not mean to imply. Interestingly, in lower doses of 1-2 drinks a day it has been shown to dissolve lipofuscin, and is one of the few known chemicals to do that in humans. I think the "safe" amounts will be different for everybody but in people with ALDH deficiency or any other condition leading to buildup of acetaldehyde it will probably be a mostly harmful effect. Long term alcohol consumption has serotonergic effects through 5-HT3 and that is certainly not good, but at the 1-2 drinks daily dose I think most people metabolize it too quickly to cause damage.
Anyways, title changed so it should be clearer now.

Do you think I can use alcohol for lipofuscin clearance?

 

[Broken man]

A shaman contacted me about having difficulty accessing the first two links above.

Alcoholic liver disease may be prevented with adequate nutrients - ScienceDirect

"Nanji et al (27) have shown that beef fat (highly saturated) prevents alcohol fatty liver in the rat. This observation clearly shows that nutritional factors interact with ethanol to induce alcoholic fatty liver in the rat."

"Among the nutritional factors implicated as interacting with ethanol to induce alcoholic liver disease are a relatively high intake of saturated fat (7, 30), a low intake of lipotropes (methionine, choline, folate and vitamin B-12) (7, 31), a low energy intake (13), and a low protein intake (7, 31). When either fat or protein is replaced by carbohydrate or when all of the vitamins are eliminated from the 36% liquid ethanol diet the area under the blood ethanol concentration versus time curve (AUC) significantly increases (32). The increase in the AUC means that the blood alcohol concentration is increased over time which would increase the ability of a given ethanol dose to induce alcoholic liver disease."

Spoiler: Ref.

[07] Recovery from chronic hepatic lesions in rats fed alcohol and a solid super diet | The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition | Oxford Academic (above)
[13] Inadequate intake by growing rats of essential nutrients from liquid diets used for chronic alcohol consumption - ScienceDirect
[23] Adequate nutrition abates the effects of a toxic alcohol dose fed to rats for four generations
[27] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1530-0277.1989.tb00276.x
[30] Quantitative relationship between the amount of dietary fat and the severity of the alcoholic fatty liver
[31] Fatty liver produced by dietary deficiencies: its pathogenesis and potentiation by ethanol
[32] Who cares?

Also here (2nd page) they cite the studies:
Alcohol, food factors, and liver disease

Thank you for this. I will experiment with it.

 

[Frankdee20]

Is Pregnenalone an Endotoxin antagonist ?

 

[haidut]

Do you think I can use alcohol for lipofuscin clearance?

The one study I saw showed that 1 drink daily (1 beer or 1 shot, 1 glass of wine) was optimal for clearance. Less than that had no effect and more than that increased lipofuscin formation possibly through increasing the endotoxin/PUFA/iron cascade.

 

[ddjd]

What could be the mechanism here??


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